http://www.historynet.com/world-war-ii-general-george-s-pattons-race-to-capture-messina.htm From the World's Largest History Magazine Publisher Sat, 25 May 2013 03:21:04 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.2 http://www.historynet.com/world-war-ii-general-george-s-pattons-race-to-capture-messina.htm#comment-815919 World War II- Patton Beats Montgomery To Messina This Day 1943 | slicethelife Fri, 17 Aug 2012 09:37:47 +0000 #comment-815919 [...] http://www.historynet.com/world-war-ii-general-george-s-pattons-race-to-capture-messina.htm [...] [...] http://www.historynet.com/world-war-ii-general-george-s-pattons-race-to-capture-messina.htm [...]

]]> http://www.historynet.com/world-war-ii-general-george-s-pattons-race-to-capture-messina.htm#comment-812030 5 Petty Feuds That Shaped the Modern World | Chib Thu, 12 Jul 2012 15:35:12 +0000 #comment-812030 [...] the generals crept closer to Messina, they began making reckless decisions that cost hundreds of lives, all to be the first one standing in Messina, wagging his dick when the [...] [...] the generals crept closer to Messina, they began making reckless decisions that cost hundreds of lives, all to be the first one standing in Messina, wagging his dick when the [...]

]]> http://www.historynet.com/world-war-ii-general-george-s-pattons-race-to-capture-messina.htm#comment-796797 Matt Davies Sun, 22 Apr 2012 14:40:01 +0000 #comment-796797 I invoke Rommel's echoing voice here to perhaps best explain my point, and put the tenacious British propaganda to sleep (again!): "What was astonishing was the speed with which the Americans adapted themselves to modern warfare. In this they were assisted by their extraordinary sense for the practical and material, and by their complete lack of regard for tradition and worthless theories... "In Tunisia the Americans had to pay a stiff price for their experience, but it brought rich dividends. Even at that time, the American generals showed themselves to be very advanced in the tactical handling of their forces, although we had to wait until the Patton Army in France to see the most astonishing achievements in mobile warfare. The Americans, it is fair to say, profited far more than the British from their experience in Africa, thus confirming the axiom that education is easier than re-education". [excerpt from 'The Rommel Papers', B.H. Liddell Hart (Ed.), pp.521, 523] Note that Monty and pals were often quite the epitome of "tradition and worthless theories" in Rommel's description. I invoke Rommel's echoing voice here to perhaps best explain my point, and put the tenacious British propaganda to sleep (again!):
"What was astonishing was the speed with which the Americans adapted themselves to modern warfare. In this they were assisted by their extraordinary sense for the practical and material, and by their complete lack of regard for tradition and worthless theories…
"In Tunisia the Americans had to pay a stiff price for their experience, but it brought rich dividends. Even at that time, the American generals showed themselves to be very advanced in the tactical handling of their forces, although we had to wait until the Patton Army in France to see the most astonishing achievements in mobile warfare. The Americans, it is fair to say, profited far more than the British from their experience in Africa, thus confirming the axiom that education is easier than re-education".
[excerpt from 'The Rommel Papers', B.H. Liddell Hart (Ed.), pp.521, 523]
Note that Monty and pals were often quite the epitome of "tradition and worthless theories" in Rommel's description.

]]> http://www.historynet.com/world-war-ii-general-george-s-pattons-race-to-capture-messina.htm#comment-796790 Patrick Sun, 22 Apr 2012 11:06:29 +0000 #comment-796790 It seems quite obvious to me that there was a good reason that the British did not respect the American Generals; Because it had been seen that the Americans were not experienced, and in a world war there was so little room for error. The events of North Africa were proof of this, Rommel's Afrika Corps were able to easily exploit the US inexperience. Patton himself was appointed with the hope that he could "Improve US performance" and it was up to much more experienced Generals such as Montgomery to win sucsessive battles such as El Alamein. It seems quite obvious to me that there was a good reason that the British did not respect the American Generals; Because it had been seen that the Americans were not experienced, and in a world war there was so little room for error. The events of North Africa were proof of this, Rommel's Afrika Corps were able to easily exploit the US inexperience. Patton himself was appointed with the hope that he could "Improve US performance" and it was up to much more experienced Generals such as Montgomery to win sucsessive battles such as El Alamein.

]]> http://www.historynet.com/world-war-ii-general-george-s-pattons-race-to-capture-messina.htm#comment-796787 Matt Davies Sun, 22 Apr 2012 10:02:50 +0000 #comment-796787 Patrick, maybe you're taking GS Patton's idioms too literally, missing how seriously he waged that very important war? Consider Patton's comment after meeting Britain's King George VI, whom he described to his wife as "just a grade above a moron". Patton saw the British system as no real competition at all. Indeed that was the whole problem, when the British demanded their imperial primacy to actually "steal the show" and pose falsely as the war's real winners: from the Tunis victory parade, to the Sicily invasion, to the whole Mediterranean effort and delaying of the invasion of France (and the end of the European war). Patton, Bradley, Marshall, King - and Ike too it seems - all bristled at the repeated British snobbery and inefficiency, and the very costly delays to victory. Patrick, maybe you're taking GS Patton's idioms too literally, missing how seriously he waged that very important war?
Consider Patton's comment after meeting Britain's King George VI, whom he described to his wife as "just a grade above a moron". Patton saw the British system as no real competition at all. Indeed that was the whole problem, when the British demanded their imperial primacy to actually "steal the show" and pose falsely as the war's real winners: from the Tunis victory parade, to the Sicily invasion, to the whole Mediterranean effort and delaying of the invasion of France (and the end of the European war). Patton, Bradley, Marshall, King – and Ike too it seems – all bristled at the repeated British snobbery and inefficiency, and the very costly delays to victory.

]]> http://www.historynet.com/world-war-ii-general-george-s-pattons-race-to-capture-messina.htm#comment-796719 Patrick Sat, 21 Apr 2012 13:51:25 +0000 #comment-796719 It was foolish of Patton to see the British as his competition when the only real competition was the Axis, and in retort to his comment about Monty trying to "steal the show", If he saw the most bloody conflict in human history as a "Show" then perhaps it was unwise of Eisenhower to give such a man command during such a important point in the war. It was foolish of Patton to see the British as his competition when the only real competition was the Axis, and in retort to his comment about Monty trying to "steal the show", If he saw the most bloody conflict in human history as a "Show" then perhaps it was unwise of Eisenhower to give such a man command during such a important point in the war.

]]> http://www.historynet.com/world-war-ii-general-george-s-pattons-race-to-capture-messina.htm#comment-789591 The Battles of General George S. Patton Jr in WW2 « finnegan2749 Sat, 25 Feb 2012 22:38:10 +0000 #comment-789591 [...] http://www.historynet.com/world-war-ii-general-george-s-pattons-race-to-capture-messina.htm Share this:TwitterFacebookLike this:LikeOne blogger likes this post. [...] [...] http://www.historynet.com/world-war-ii-general-george-s-pattons-race-to-capture-messina.htm Share this:TwitterFacebookLike this:LikeOne blogger likes this post. [...]

]]> http://www.historynet.com/world-war-ii-general-george-s-pattons-race-to-capture-messina.htm#comment-786489 Alice Guarneri Tue, 10 Jan 2012 16:02:01 +0000 #comment-786489 Dear Matt Davies, Thanks so much for your reply. This a an interesting website. Alice Guarneri Dear Matt Davies,
Thanks so much for your reply. This a an interesting website.
Alice Guarneri

]]> http://www.historynet.com/world-war-ii-general-george-s-pattons-race-to-capture-messina.htm#comment-786488 Matt Davies Tue, 10 Jan 2012 14:57:14 +0000 #comment-786488 Date of entry to Campofiorito? Judging from the maps in my reading: morning of 21 July 1943, but that's only an educated guess. Matt Davies Date of entry to Campofiorito? Judging from the maps in my reading: morning of 21 July 1943, but that's only an educated guess.
Matt Davies

]]> http://www.historynet.com/world-war-ii-general-george-s-pattons-race-to-capture-messina.htm#comment-786487 Matt Davies Tue, 10 Jan 2012 14:51:26 +0000 #comment-786487 Dear Alice, If I'm not mistaken, Campofiorito would have been taken by troops of the US 3rd Infantry Division commanded by Major-General Lucian King Truscott, Jr. As you can tell, they covered great distance to end up in Messina, but such speed and grind was part of Truscott's reputation. Btw, the article's a very good summary of a history that needs re-telling. It's not anti-British to state how some British rulers kept sabotaging US efforts, even though such facts may seem unbelievable in such an important war. Dear Alice,
If I'm not mistaken, Campofiorito would have been taken by troops of the US 3rd Infantry Division commanded by Major-General Lucian King Truscott, Jr. As you can tell, they covered great distance to end up in Messina, but such speed and grind was part of Truscott's reputation.
Btw, the article's a very good summary of a history that needs re-telling. It's not anti-British to state how some British rulers kept sabotaging US efforts, even though such facts may seem unbelievable in such an important war.

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