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Wild West - April 2011 - Table of Contents

Originally published on HistoryNet.com. Published Online: February 03, 2011 
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FEATURES

Cover Story
Champion of the Johnson County War
By Ron Soodalter
Small-time rancher Nate Champion showed big-time courage in 1892 as he battled the Wyoming cattle barons' hired guns from Texas

The Yellow Rose of Texas: A Growing Legend
By Douglas Brode
A mysterious young mulatto woman named Emily has seduced generations of admirers as she once supposedly did Santa Anna in a tent at San Jacinto 175 years ago

Buffalo Bill and the Wild West Posters
William Cody started it all, but he had many imitators as Wild West shows and their colorful promotional posters crisscrossed the nation and globe

New Ulm: Deadliest Indian Attack on a Western Town
By Gregory Michno
During the 1862 Minnesota Uprising, Little Crow's Dakotas surrounded this town and sought to overwhelm Colonel Charles Flandreau and the other white defenders with greater firepower and great fires

When Wynkoop Was Sheriff
By Louis Kraft
Edward "Ned" Wynkoop is best known for protesting the actions of Colorado soldiers at Sand Creek in 1864, but a few years earlier he had made friends and enemies while enforcing the law around Denver

DEPARTMENTS  

Editor's Letter

Letters

Roundup
The Top Ten list covers the most lopsided gun battles in the Wild West, and Betty Dorsett Duke offers pictures to support her claim that James L. Courtney was really Jesse James

Westerners
Seth Kinman killed grizzly bears and made presidential chairs, including one crafted from grizzly bear limbs for Andrew Johnson

Interview
By Candy Moulton
Dutch-born history professor Mark van de Logt discusses his new book War Party in Blue: Pawnee Scouts in the U.S. Army

Gunfighters and Lawmen
By William and John Gorenfeld
Two tough Englishmen were gambling partners in Virginia City, Nev., but after a falling out in Helena, Montana Territory, one of them fell hard

Pioneers and Settlers
By Ron Soodalter
Cowboy Dud Champion followed in big brother Nate's footsteps—coming to Wyoming from Round Rock, Texas, and dying a violent death

Indian Life
By Claes H. Jacobsen
The Lakota Turning Bear was an Army Indian scout for two enlistment periods, a Ghost Dancer and a tribal representative in Washington, D.C.

Western Enterprise
By John Koster
Fred Harvey, who built eating houses all along the Santa Fe line, was a stickler for the quality of food he served and of the girls who served it

Art of the West
By Johnny D. Boggs
George Rivera captures the spirit of the Pueblo Indians with his bronze statue Buffalo Dancer and its sequel, Buffalo Dancer II

Guns of the West
By Ron Soodalter
The story of three weapons that might have belonged to Nate Champion, two of which he probably had with him when he died

Ghost Towns
By Jim Pettengill
To be or not to be a silver mining town: the tale of Shakespeare, N.M.

Collections
By Linda Wommack
The Sioux Indian Museum in Rapid City, S.D., provides a window into the Lakota past and serves as the "Gateway to the Black Hills"

Reviews
A look at must-read books about Texas' fight for independence and reviews of recent books, including The Killing of Crazy Horse

Go West!
Beat the rush to the Centennial Land Run Monument

On the cover: Hard-riding men seek Prairie Justice, in an oil on board by Dan Mieduch. Justice was hard to come by in Wyoming's Johnson County in 1892, when big cattlemen hired Texas gunmen to ride against the small ranchers—that is, until lawmen and citizens rode against those "invaders" from the south. (Dan Mieduch, Scottsdale, Ariz.)

 

ONLINE EXTRAS

Discussion: The "Yellow Rose of Texas" is one of the most legendary and elusive figures in Texas history. What's the most likely true story about the young woman who allegedly helped procure Texas independence by occupying Mexican General Santa Anna's leisure time before the Battle of San Jacinto on April 21, 1836?

How Railroads Took the "Wild" out of the West: Author Carlos A. Schwantes writes that "the railroad tourist's West was contrived and controlled in a way to add a safe measure of excitement without posing any real risk or hardship"

Spirit Lake Massacre: Author Susan Michno tells how Dakota Chief Inkpaduta raided homesteads near Spirit Lake in northwestern Iowa in 1857, escaped punishment and participated in the Minnesota Uprising five years later

 

Also be sure to visit GreatHistory.com, where you can read and write about history, even if you don't know a "blog" from a bowie knife.

 

 


703 Responses to “Wild West - April 2011 - Table of Contents”


  1. 1
    Greg Ellison says:

    I would like to start the comments by saying that I am very proud of Betty Dorsett Duke for sticking to her guns while enduring many years of unfounded opposition. This photo represents the best proof that will ever be had as to the true identity of Jesse James. It is also my hope that her detractors do not attack the messenger as they are prone to do. Wild West Magazine is a stand-up organization and is eager to present new history and gives everyone that opportunity.

    Greg Ellison

    • 1.1
      Carol says:

      But the woman she says to be Mary Ellen Barron looks nothing like Mary Ellen.

      • 1.1.1
        Betty Dorsett Duke says:

        Just for the record this is Carol Holmes and if I say the sun is shining she says we're in a total solar eclipse.

      • 1.1.2
        Fran Bolton says:

        The woman sitting behind the man seated on the ground in the dark suit is claimed to be Mary Ellen Barron, WIFE of the man sitting on the ground in the dark suit. She appears old enough to be his mother.
        What photo was used to identify her as Mary Ellen Barron?

        Fran Bolton

      • 1.1.3
        Greg Ellison says:

        I HAVE NO INTENTION OF RESPONDING TO ANY POST MADE BY **"FRANK"** WHO I BELIEVE IS THE PERSON THAT HAS HARASSED AND THREATENED MY FAMILY AND I IN THE PAST!

        HE CHANGES INFORMATION TO SUITE HIS AGENDA AND CONSISTANLY TAKES COMMENTS OUT OF CONTEXT TO FIT HIS AGENDA. YOU CAN EASILY SEE HIS INFACTUATION WITH ME IN HIS POSTINGS. BELOW ARE SOME EXAMPLES OF HIS DECEIT:

        *417 Magazine never said my images weren't who I identified them as being. They were bombarded with emails from the individuals that you now see here doing the exact same thing so they felt the need to make a comment on that. In the very next issue they apologized to me for their mistake and said that they had mistakingly switched the captions under the images and that it was their fault for the confusion.

        *The curator of The Abraham Lincoln Presidential Library who I visited personally did not say the photo was "not worthy of consideration." He told me it was worthy of consideration but they had no authority to do so as they rely on outside experts for those opinons as all government owned museums do just like the James Farm Museum must. The photographer of the photograph was a woman. Her husband ran the photo studio with his two sons pre-Civil War and when they left to go to war they left it to the mother to run. Frank and others have never admitted to this information because it blows their accusations out of the water. Frank doesn't know what he is talking about and can't prove he does.

        *Laura James has never addressed the issue of the photo after she made that comment because she knows she told a fib. She had the cover of her book with my photo of Jesse James Jr. posted on her website for a week before she made the statement that her publisher had done this without her knowledge. She even said that she "LOVE THE COVER." I do not blame Laura for caving to pressure from the detractors as they are a ruthless bunch that will harass you until they get their way. They use mafia style tactics and a lot of bullying is involved.

      • 1.1.4
        Greg Ellison says:

        Mel Graf says:
        2/15/2011 at 4:18 pm

        In reference to post 15.1, The "Jesse James Preservation Trust" is not to be confused with the "James Preservation Trust." The "Jesse James Preservation Trust" is a creation of Greg Ellison as you can see as you scroll down this page:

        http://theellisoncollection.com/pri.php?gal=cs5vrxc4&gid=108

        I agree with Melvin Graf! I created the Jesse James Preservation Trust to preserve the TRUE history of Jesse James. I love the link Mel!

        Greg Ellison

      • 1.1.5
        Greg Ellison says:

        This is a very interesting article concerning a letter written by Jesse James in Texas in 1879. Jesse was laughing then just as he is today:

        http://chroniclingamerica.loc.gov/lccn/sn85034336/1879-12-12/ed-1/seq-1/;words=Shepherd+George

        Greg Ellison

      • 1.1.6
        Greg Ellison says:

        It has become apparent through this thread that the main interest in Jesse James is in the story of Jesse James aka James L. Courtney. No other Jesse James discussion garners as much interest as this story and it is easy to see why. Even the detractors know that Jesse James aka James L. Courtney has become more popular than the worn out traditional story of Jesse James. Even the detractors do not waste their time trying to prove the sensationalized version of the unproven life of Jesse James. The detractors are here because they realize that the traditional story of the life of Jesse James is about crumble through their fingers and their is nothing that they can do about it.

    • 1.2
      Betty Dorsett Duke says:

      Thanks Greg, but if it wasn't for you and Dallas Hunt finding the pictures two pictures I would still be trying to prove my case. Thank you!

      I completely agree that the Ebay photo is the best proof ever presented showing who Jesse James really married and his true fate.

      Wild West is truly a class act and represents everything a Western magazine should be.

      • 1.2.1
        Carol says:

        Perhaps your story was published just as the story of J Frank Dalton was so that the story can come to light and the truth be known. A photo is not positive proof and you can't get dna from a photo all you can say is "I believe it is." Until you can establish some form of provenance that photo is as worthless as the paper it is printed on. I respect that you feel your great grandfather was Jesse James which is your right but provenance is important to your claim. And what will you say when someone out there comes forward with who is really in the photo? Will you admit you were wrong about the ebay photo? Good luck.

      • 1.2.2
        Betty Dorsett Duke says:

        I am busy working on my next book so instead of debating issues that have been debated to death over the past ten or or so years to no avail, I will do readers a favor and make a blanket statement that covers all of the allegations and outright fabrications made by my detractors, most of whom are on this blog using different aliases.

        According to my family story my paternal great-grandfather, known in Texas as James L. Courtney, was really Jesse James. When I decided to either prove or disprove the story I learned that there was a real James L. Courtney and he was a Union soldier.

        After a few years I found much evidence supporting my family story as being true and I eventually wrote two books on the subject. From the very beginning my claim proved to be very controversial to a limited few (even with their multiple aliases), but most people were excited to learn that Jesse James was not shot from behind by Bob Ford.

        When Dallas Hunt found the photo of my great-grandfather attending the 1921 Quantrill Reunion, and then a few weeks later Greg Ellison identified my great-grandfather as the man identified as Jesse James in a picture of the James family up for auction on Ebay, it pretty much knocked the breath out of both me and my detractors for awhile. I just couldn't wipe the constant grin off my face that lasted a couple of months.

        These two pictures provide compelling evidence that my great-grandfather was Jesse James, and no amount of trash talk about censuses, timelines, and misidentified photos is going to change this fact. These pictures literally confirm the truth about Jesse James.

        Anyone wishing to contact me may do so through my website which may be found through a Google search of Betty Dorsett Duke. I would give the URL but was told that it will prevent this message from being posted.

      • 1.2.3
        Rollie Taylor says:

        Ms. Duke would have you believe her story that James L. Courtney was Jesse James. She has painted a scenario which replaces the historically accepted fact that Bob Ford killed Jesse James, with an improbable story that Jesse James faked his death.
        She acknowledges that James L. Courtney was the son of Stephen and Dianah Andruss Courtney as documented by the release signed by Stephen allowing James to enlist in the Union army as a minor.
        She alleges that James L. Courtney changed his name to James Haun “forevermore”, about 1870, based on the 1870 census which shows that the Stephen Courtney family group became the Andrew J. Haun family group.
        She claims that Jesse James lived under the name of James L. Courtney in Texas effective 1871, while robberies attributed to the James brothers were occurring from 1871 until 1882 when Jesse James was killed by Bob Ford.

        Has Ms. Duke provided any facts to support her claims?
        These are facts which contradict Ms. Duke’s story.
        Was Jesse James alive after 1882?
        The will of Zerelda Cole James Samuel, who died in 1911, contains two references to her dead son Jesse James, and a reference to her grandson, Jesse E. James. JLC died in 1943.
        Zerelda testified at the trial of her grandson, Jesse E. James.
        The California death index shows the maiden name of Jesse E. James mother was Mims. (Zee Mims was the wife of Jesse W. James,)
        Y chromosome DNA tests verified that Jesse James was buried in Kearney, MO
        SCORE
        Truth – 100
        Duke – 0

        Did James L. Courtney permanently change his name to James Haun?
        James L. Courtney is found in every census from 1860 through 1930, with the exception of the 1870 census where he is recorded as James Haun.
        James L. Haun has never been found in any other census record, birth, marriage, death, or cemetery record.
        James L. Haun was named in the 1882 estate proceedings of his father, Andrew J. Haun; in the 1916 request for letters of administration upon the death of his mother, Mrs. D. D. Haun, and in the obituary of his brother, Robert W. Haun of Pawnee, OK, as one of two surviving brothers, T. N. of Parkersville, KS, and J. L., of Troy, TX (the home of James L. Courtney for over 50 years).
        SCORE
        Truth – 100
        Duke – 0

        Was the man living in Falls County, TX, Jesse James?
        He wrote his first cousin that he had been to see his 96 year old mother. (Zerelda Cole James Samuel died at age 86.)
        He wrote in his diary to return the book to E. L. Andruss if the book was lost.
        He received an Easter card from his mother postmarked Parkersville, KS, 2 years after Zerelda died.
        He wrote a tribute to his father upon the death of Andrew J. Haun in 1882, with details of his birth date, birth place, relocation from TN to MO, to KS.
        He described the conditions that existed in his Union army unit which led to his desertion when he applied for a pension (which was granted).
        SCORE
        Truth – 100
        Duke – 0

      • 1.2.4
        Frank says:

        Irving Gimer wasn't your great-grandfather James L. Courtney, Travis Barron or Jesse Woodson James. Sorry!

        Look at it this way….

        One can't get YDNA from a photograph…..If Mrs. Duke truly wants an answer…she? will go to the Courtney family and match their YDNA to a James relative from the Jesse and Frank James family. If Eldon Courtney is a James……let him prove it!

        What are they so afraid of? lol

      • 1.2.5
        Betty Dorsett Duke says:

        Dear Readers,

        The purpose of this post is to explain the onslaught of negative posts made by my detractors. Two photographs have them in this frenzied state because they literally override all of the alleged evidence they repeatedly present in an attempt to discredit the family story that both Eldon Courtney and I heard that claims our great-grandfather was not James L. Courtney the ex- Union soldier, but was instead Jesse Woodson James, the ex-Quantrill Confederate guerrilla.

        The compelling photos are pictured in Wild West magazine's April 2011 issue. One photo was found by Dallas Hunt in The William Clarke Quantrill Men Reunions 1898-1929, compiled by Donald R. Hale, has newspaper clippings and photos of the Quantrill men's annual reunions. Dallas identified Jesse James AKA James Courtney pictured in a 1921 Quantrill Reunion photo. The other photo is of the James family and was up for auction on Ebay. Greg Ellison identified my great-grandfather as being the same man identified as Jesse James. And my great-grandmother, Mary Ellen Barron, is identified as Mrs. Jesse James.
        Another fact that threatens the detractors is that Arch Nicholson, the historically accepted nephew of Frank and Jesse James, was the person who identified my great-grandparents as Jesse James and Mrs. Jesse James for St. Joseph, Missouri Collector Lee Starnes, Arch was the son of Frank and Jesse's half-sister, Sarah Louisa Samuel, and her husband William A. Nicholson.

        These two photographs obviously pose a great threat to the detractors because they now support the traditional story of Jesse James' life and death which has him marrying Zee Mimms and fathering her two children and then being shot dead by Bob Ford on April 3, 1882. I use the word "now" in the previous sentence because some of the detractors fairly recently believed that Jesse James did not die in , but lived on under the alias of J. Frank Dalton. But, unlike the way they attack anyone else who dares to present new evidence showing that Jesse James did indeed fake his 1882 death and lived on under the alias of James Courtney, they were never once attacked for their beliefs. Read on to discover why.

        The detractors perceive themselves as the "Jesse James powers that be" and their illusion worked for awhile, but after I presented proof that the 1995 exhumation and subsequent DNA of the grave bearing the name of Jesse W. James in Kearney, Missouri did not prove where Jesse James is buried, they now only impress themselves and each other. They use their own names and multiple aliases to contact each and every expert/professional that lends their names to statements of recognition that support Jesse James using the alias of James Courtney, and any publication , such as Wild West magazine, that publishes new information that conflicts with their version of Jesse James' life and death.

        Far be it from me to tell anyone what they should believe about Jesse James, I prefer to let the evidence do the convincing so I publish my findings and readers can decide for themselves. But please keep in mind that the detractors weren't dubbed "The Smokescreen Gang " for nothing. One definition of smokescreen is " something designed to obscure, confuse, or mislead" and it definitely describes the detractors.

        One final thing I want readers to be aware of is that the detractors are known associates of a man who is currently under investigation for threatening my life and the lives of my family, as well as the lives of others, including Greg Ellison and Dallas Hunt. Why does my family story pose such a threat to them that people's lives are at stake?

        Respectfully,

        Betty

      • 1.2.6
        Peter Hubbard says:

        Dear Betty,

        Please share your sales numbers with the readers so we can all understand how much money your making off the the name of the James family.

      • 1.2.7
        John Smith says:

        Dear Suckers, I mean Dear Readers, how much are you willing to pay for another novel about JWJ?

        Peter,

        Did it ever occur to you why, after 10 years, Greg has suddenly decided to march in the tiny BDD parade and sing the JLC song so vociferously? Has he jumped on the gravy train to cash in on the James name? He must have negotiated a good deal, and have it in writing. He already has a dubious collection of random photographs identified as Jesse James.

      • 1.2.8
        John Smith says:

        Peter,

        The story behind the story, or “How to Make Money from the Gullible Public”.

        Chapter 1. Generating Free Publicity
        Stage a Confederate ceremony in the Blevins cemetery at the grave of James L. Courtney.
        Request relatives to attend the ceremony in period costumes.
        Make melodramatic claims of bodily harm and death threats.
        Allege that researchers who reveal the fallacy of the JLC myth are being paid.
        Send bogus “press releases” to unsuspecting local papers and magazines.
        Deny scientific DNA evidence which destroys the JLC myth.
        Claim that altered and re-identified family photographs.are Jesse James.

      • 1.2.9
        John Smith says:

        "Thanks Greg, but if it wasn't for you and Dallas Hunt finding the pictures two pictures I would still be trying to prove my case. Thank you! "

        So, Ms. Duke, you published 2 books about the Falls County beekeeper, claiming he was your great-grandfather, Jesse James, yet you just admitted you had not proved your case.

    • 1.3
      Frank says:

      Here is a link to 417 Magazine's apology in Sep 08:

      http://www.zinio.com/pages/417Magazine/Sep-08/294670471/pg-26

      The Jesse James Dilemma

      In the July 2008 issue of 417, we ran a story about 417-lander Greg
      Ellison’s collection of antique photographs. Since the story ran,
      we’ve received a number of letters from readers who study either Jesse
      James or antique photos and disagreed with the authenticity of
      Ellison’s James Gang photos. The letters are too numerous to run
      here.

      In the story, writer Brian Lipscomb pointed out that not all of
      Ellison’s collection of James-related photos has been verified but
      that 25 images were included in a letter of authenticity from a Jesse
      James historian. Readers questioned the authenticity of the letter
      itself. Ellison asserts that it is valid. The historian died a couple of years ago.
      One reader asked if Ellison paid for the article. He did not.

      Regarding any images printed in 417 Magazine that were of questionable
      authenticity or incorrectly identified historical figures, we regret
      the error. – Editor

      Don't forget about the "Abe Lincoln" photo and that the curator of the
      Lincoln Presidential Library says it is not worthy of consideration as
      being Lincoln. Post 1865 back mark. Reference: "Ohio Photographers:
      1839-1900" by Diane VanSkiver Gagel. Link (see J. W. Fessenden):
      http://books.google.com/books?id=LChcvLOmf-UC&pg=PA57&lpg=PA57&dq=ohio+photographers+1866&source=bl&ots=_KJnEp2ozH&sig=mBAtxABJ56EfKRW2DygXujy44Lc&hl=en&ei=CpdaTfzIFMObtwf2spTRCw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CBoQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=ohio%20photographers%201866&f=false

      Some quotes regarding the Laura James scam (Ellison tried to get a
      misidentified image of Jesse's son, Jesse Edwards James on the cover
      of Laura James book): He said this on Butch's on October 29, 2008:
      "That photo isn't one that Phillip saw. It is an almost exact match
      to the known photo of Jesse Jr. and I made the authentication myself."
      http://forums.delphiforums.com/jessejames/messages?msg=889.5
      Then he contradicted himself on http://www.topix.com early in November 2008
      (the discussion has since been deleted by Topix): "Phillip W. Steele
      saw the photo and said it comes from the James Family. I compared the
      photo to a known photo of Jesse Jr. and made the authentication. That
      is good enough for me and I am the only one that matters to me. Now,
      if you don't think my verification is accurate it is up to you to find
      an expert to say it isn't Jesse Jr."

      Laura James got the word and posted this on Delphi
      (http://forums.delphiforums.com/jessejames/messages?msg=889.73):

      My book about Jesse Edwards James & Dr. Zeo Wilkins is filled with
      photos of both that I found on my travels, but all of the photos
      inside the book came from research libraries and university
      collections. There is no doubt about the authenticity of the photos
      inside the book.

      My publisher, Sterling Publishing, created the cover for the book
      without any input from me. The publisher found Greg Ellison's
      collection on the internet and decided to use the studio portrait
      identified as a young Jesse E. James from Mr. Ellison's collection for
      the cover. I did not know about that decision until after the cover
      was made and released on the web.

      At this point I do not know what the final cover will look like, but I
      have asked Sterling to avoid the controversy by using one of the
      photos I previously supplied. I would hate to think that I could put
      eight solid years of research into this tale only to have a questioned
      photo used on the cover. I mean no disrespect to Mr. Ellison, but it
      is unnecessary to use his Jesse E. James photo. The book will be
      surprising and controversial enough as is.

      Laura James

    • 1.4
      Greg Ellison says:

      I HAVE NO INTENTION OF RESPONDING TO ANY POST MADE BY **"FRANK"** WHO I BELIEVE IS THE PERSON THAT HAS HARASSED AND THREATENED MY FAMILY AND I IN THE PAST!

      HE CHANGES INFORMATION TO SUITE HIS AGENDA AND CONSISTANLY TAKES COMMENTS OUT OF CONTEXT TO FIT HIS AGENDA. YOU CAN EASILY SEE HIS INFACTUATION WITH ME IN HIS POSTINGS. BELOW ARE SOME EXAMPLES OF HIS DECEIT:

      *417 Magazine never said my images weren't who I identified them as being. They were bombarded with emails from the individuals that you now see here doing the exact same thing so they felt the need to make a comment on that. In the very next issue they apologized to me for their mistake and said that they had mistakingly switched the captions under the images and that it was their fault for the confusion.

      *The curator of The Abraham Lincoln Presidential Library who I visited personally did not say the photo was "not worthy of consideration." He told me it was worthy of consideration but they had no authority to do so as they rely on outside experts for those opinons as all government owned museums do just like the James Farm Museum must. The photographer of the photograph was a woman. Her husband ran the photo studio with his two sons pre-Civil War and when they left to go to war they left it to the mother to run. Frank and others have never admitted to this information because it blows their accusations out of the water. Frank doesn't know what he is talking about and can't prove he does.

      *Laura James has never addressed the issue of the photo after she made that comment because she knows she told a fib. She had the cover of her book with my photo of Jesse James Jr. posted on her website for a week before she made the statement that her publisher had done this without her knowledge. I do not blame Laura for caving to pressure from the detractors as they are a ruthless bunch that will harass you until they get their way. They use mafia style tactics and a lot of bullying is involved.

      • 1.4.1
        Frank says:

        "I HAVE NO INTENTION OF RESPONDING TO ANY POST MADE BY **"FRANK"** WHO I BELIEVE IS THE PERSON THAT HAS HARASSED AND THREATENED MY FAMILY AND I IN THE PAST! "

        Yet you just responded to me. You can't help yourself! You can believe what you want to. The harassment and threats are from you, not anyone else.

        "HE CHANGES INFORMATION TO SUITE HIS AGENDA AND CONSISTANLY TAKES COMMENTS OUT OF CONTEXT TO FIT HIS AGENDA. YOU CAN EASILY SEE HIS INFACTUATION WITH ME IN HIS POSTINGS. BELOW ARE SOME EXAMPLES OF HIS DECEIT:"

        Says the person changing information to suit your agenda/scam. Now, point to where I took comments out of context. You aren't going to get away with deceiving the public with a hoax and fake images. Take it out on who you want to. It just isn't going to happen.

        "*417 Magazine never said my images weren't who I identified them as being. They were bombarded with emails from the individuals that you now see here doing the exact same thing so they felt the need to make a comment on that. In the very next issue they apologized to me for their mistake and said that they had mistakingly switched the captions under the images and that it was their fault for the confusion. "

        417 Magazine was made aware of your scam. After investigating they found you guilty and exposed you. It's all right there for the public. Just ask them.

        "*The curator of The Abraham Lincoln Presidential Library who I visited personally did not say the photo was "not worthy of consideration." He told me it was worthy of consideration but they had no authority to do so as they rely on outside experts for those opinons as all government owned museums do just like the James Farm Museum must. The photographer of the photograph was a woman. Her husband ran the photo studio with his two sons pre-Civil War and when they left to go to war they left it to the mother to run. Frank and others have never admitted to this information because it blows their accusations out of the water. Frank doesn't know what he is talking about and can't prove he does. "

        You didn't visit them personally nor did you discuss anything of the kind. They declined your bogus image and wanted nothing to do with you or your misidentified image collection. Your image didn't match and upon further research disproved your claim. After all, it isn't accepted at The Abraham Lincoln Presidential Library. That speaks for itself.

        "*Laura James has never addressed the issue of the photo after she made that comment because she knows she told a fib. She had the cover of her book with my photo of Jesse James Jr. posted on her website for a week before she made the statement that her publisher had done this without her knowledge. I do not blame Laura for caving to pressure from the detractors as they are a ruthless bunch that will harass you until they get their way. They use mafia style tactics and a lot of bullying is involved."

        She addressed to everyone on the Jesse James Discussion Site that she wanted nothing to do with you or your fake and misidentified photo as it had no documentation nor provenance to prove who you think it was. There was never any association between Laura James and you after she discovered your scam.

        Fraud is a criminal offense. Be warned, Ellison. God Bless.

      • 1.4.2
        Frank says:

        "I HAVE NO INTENTION OF RESPONDING TO ANY POST MADE BY **"FRANK"** WHO I BELIEVE IS THE PERSON THAT HAS HARASSED AND THREATENED MY FAMILY AND I IN THE PAST! "

        Yet you just responded to me. You can't help yourself! You can believe what you want to. The harassment and threats are from you, not anyone else.

        "HE CHANGES INFORMATION TO SUITE HIS AGENDA AND CONSISTANLY TAKES COMMENTS OUT OF CONTEXT TO FIT HIS AGENDA. YOU CAN EASILY SEE HIS INFACTUATION WITH ME IN HIS POSTINGS. BELOW ARE SOME EXAMPLES OF HIS DECEIT:"

        Says the person changing information to suit your agenda/scam. Now, point to where I took comments out of context. You aren't going to get away with deceiving the public with a hoax and fake images. Take it out on who you want to. It just isn't going to happen.

        "*417 Magazine never said my images weren't who I identified them as being. They were bombarded with emails from the individuals that you now see here doing the exact same thing so they felt the need to make a comment on that. In the very next issue they apologized to me for their mistake and said that they had mistakingly switched the captions under the images and that it was their fault for the confusion. "

        417 Magazine was made aware of your scam. After investigating they found you guilty and exposed you. It's all right there. Just ask them.

        "*The curator of The Abraham Lincoln Presidential Library who I visited personally did not say the photo was "not worthy of consideration." He told me it was worthy of consideration but they had no authority to do so as they rely on outside experts for those opinons as all government owned museums do just like the James Farm Museum must. The photographer of the photograph was a woman. Her husband ran the photo studio with his two sons pre-Civil War and when they left to go to war they left it to the mother to run. Frank and others have never admitted to this information because it blows their accusations out of the water. Frank doesn't know what he is talking about and can't prove he does. "

        You didn't visit them personally nor did you discuss anything of the kind. They declined your bogus image and wanted nothing to do with you or your misidentified image collection. Your image didn't match and upon further research disproved your claim. After all, it isn't accepted at The Abraham Lincoln Presidential Library. That speaks for itself.

        "*Laura James has never addressed the issue of the photo after she made that comment because she knows she told a fib. She had the cover of her book with my photo of Jesse James Jr. posted on her website for a week before she made the statement that her publisher had done this without her knowledge. I do not blame Laura for caving to pressure from the detractors as they are a ruthless bunch that will harass you until they get their way. They use mafia style tactics and a lot of bullying is involved."

        She addressed to everyone on the Jesse James Discussion Site that she wanted nothing to do with you or your fake and misidentified photo as it had no documentation nor provenance to prove who you think it was. There was never any association between Laura James and you after she discovered your scam.

        Fraud is a criminal offense. Be warned, Ellison.

      • 1.4.3
        Frank says:

        "I HAVE NO INTENTION OF RESPONDING TO ANY POST MADE BY **"FRANK"** WHO I BELIEVE IS THE PERSON THAT HAS HARASSED AND THREATENED MY FAMILY AND I IN THE PAST! "

        Yet you just responded to me. You can't help yourself! You can believe what you want to. The harassment and threats are from you, not anyone else.

        "HE CHANGES INFORMATION TO SUITE HIS AGENDA AND CONSISTANLY TAKES COMMENTS OUT OF CONTEXT TO FIT HIS AGENDA. YOU CAN EASILY SEE HIS INFACTUATION WITH ME IN HIS POSTINGS. BELOW ARE SOME EXAMPLES OF HIS DECEIT:"

        Says the person changing information to suit your agenda/scam. Now, point to where I took comments out of context. You aren't going to get away with deceiving the public with a hoax and fake images. Take it out on who you want to. It just isn't going to happen.

        "*417 Magazine never said my images weren't who I identified them as being. They were bombarded with emails from the individuals that you now see here doing the exact same thing so they felt the need to make a comment on that. In the very next issue they apologized to me for their mistake and said that they had mistakingly switched the captions under the images and that it was their fault for the confusion. "

        417 Magazine was made aware of your scam. After investigating they found you guilty and exposed you. It's all right there. Just ask them.

        "*The curator of The Abraham Lincoln Presidential Library who I visited personally did not say the photo was "not worthy of consideration." He told me it was worthy of consideration but they had no authority to do so as they rely on outside experts for those opinons as all government owned museums do just like the James Farm Museum must. The photographer of the photograph was a woman. Her husband ran the photo studio with his two sons pre-Civil War and when they left to go to war they left it to the mother to run. Frank and others have never admitted to this information because it blows their accusations out of the water. Frank doesn't know what he is talking about and can't prove he does. "

        You didn't visit them personally nor did you discuss anything of the kind. They declined your bogus image and wanted nothing to do with you or your misidentified image collection. Your image didn't match and upon further research disproved your claim. After all, it isn't accepted at The Abraham Lincoln Presidential Library. That speaks for itself.

        "*Laura James has never addressed the issue of the photo after she made that comment because she knows she told a fib. She had the cover of her book with my photo of Jesse James Jr. posted on her website for a week before she made the statement that her publisher had done this without her knowledge. I do not blame Laura for caving to pressure from the detractors as they are a ruthless bunch that will harass you until they get their way. They use mafia style tactics and a lot of bullying is involved."

        She addressed to everyone on the Jesse James Discussion Site that she wanted nothing to do with you or your fake and misidentified photo as it had no documentation nor provenance to prove who you think it was. There was never any association between Laura James and you after she discovered your scam.

        Fraud is a criminal offense. Be warned, Ellison. God Bless.

      • 1.4.4
        Carol says:

        I talked with Linda Snyder and ask her why she quit working on her site. Her response was that someone kept uploading porn on her site. What are the odds of this happening to a detractor. Which makes me wonder if your claims are not an inside job. Personally, If it was my site, I would have had those porn shots taken down asap, but it makes me wonder about your character and how long you kept them up there. That was sick.

      • 1.4.5
        Greg Ellison says:

        Carol,

        As you well know the porn was posted by someone you associated with then and I see are associating with here as we speak. Because of an ongoing investigation it was left up so it could be properly gathered by the authorities. Delphi Staff Moderator, Walt Howle, also left up a post addressed to him for the same reason from the same person in which he said that he was going to cut off the head of Walt Howle.

        We all know this person is now here doing the same ranting and manilulating information that he started doing on my forum before he got out of hand and was removed forever! So, you can stop playing your little "I'm innocent" game!

        Greg Ellison

      • 1.4.6
        Frank says:

        Ellison,

        Could you point out where there's any "manilulating"?

        http://www.thomaskinkadechico.com/oldsite/notes.htm

        http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~jessejames/jamescourtney.html

        http://www.thomaskinkadechico.com/oldsite/Thomas%20Hudson%20Barron.htm

        http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~jessejames/barron.html

        http://www.andruss.net/courtney.htm

        http://www.ericjames.org/JesseJamesinTexas/index.html

        http://www.thomaskinkadechico.com/oldsite/budtrip.htm

        http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GSln=courtney&GSfn=james&GSmn=l+&GSbyrel=in&GSdyrel=in&GSob=n&GRid=23319153&df=all&

        http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~jessejames/jlcdc.jpg

        http://www.thomaskinkadechico.com/oldsite/jlcdiary.htm

        http://shs.umsystem.edu/famousmissourians/folklegends/james/index.html

        Keep in mind, Carol, that it was Ellison that edited my replies and filled in responses that I didn't type. He loved that advantage on his frauds forum.

        Let's also remember that it was Ellison that made arson and legal threats on Sally's forum, Butch's forum, Mv's forum, True West, ebay, Tombstone discussion, etc. Jeff Smith can attest to Ellison threatening to burn his house down on True West Magazine. Everyone saw that.

        Greg Ellison has a bad reputation of scamming people with misidentified photos. Now his reputation worsens supporting a hoax and a known and proven imposter, wannabe and fraud that got kicked out of a Texas court for lies and altering photos.

        I don't have that problem. Neither does any honest and reputable historian.

        :-)

    • 1.5
      Peter Hubbard says:

      Dear Betty,

      I'll ask you yet again to share your sales numbers with the readers so we can all understand how much money your making off the the name of the James family.

    • 1.6
      Bill Gregg says:

      It has become quite evident that Mr. Ellison has nothing to offer but irrevalent rants. Reading through over a hundred of his posts here, his defense of Ms. Duke's claim amounts to his having made his own "definitive" (but highly debatable) identification of various persons in the photograph in question — everything else has been argumentative bombast that has nothing at all to do with Ms. Duke's story.

      On the flip side, several persons have provided ample evidence that Ms. Duke is on a wild goose chase and that the photograph cannot be what she wishes it to be.

      • 1.6.1
        Greg Ellison says:

        Mr. Gregg,

        Not one person has provided any evidence that Mrs. Duke is on a wild goose chase. Please refer to these eariler comments:

        [John Smith says:

        Mr. Ellison,

        Perhaps you are confused about the meaning of these 3 words:

        fact (f kt)
        n.
        1. Knowledge or information based on real occurrences: an account based on fact;
        2.
        a. Something demonstrated to exist or known to have existed
        b. A real occurrence; an event

        claim (kl m)
        5. A statement of something as a fact; an assertion of truth

        hear•say (hîr s )
        n.
        1. Unverified information heard or received from another; rumor.

        Greg Ellison says:
        Fact:

        Photos contain their own facts as this photo does. There is no doubt this is a James family gathering as seen in the photo. That is a fact! This photo represents a real occurence that did exist.

        Claim:

        Betty Duke and I claim it is Zerelda James Samuel with her husband Reuben, Frank James and his wife, Jesse James and his wife and several Jackson family members based on facts presented in the photo.

        Hearsay:

        Jesse James was killed in St. Joseph Missouri in 1882!

        Greg Ellison]

        Mr. Gregg,

        Once that claim is made based on the facts it is then up others to prove the claim wrong and none of the poosters on this blog have even come close. They are only interested in attacking the messenger!

        Greg Ellison

      • 1.6.2
        Frank says:

        "Not one person has provided any evidence that Mrs. Duke is on a wild goose chase. Please refer to these eariler comments:"

        Nonsense. Pretty much everyone has provided evidence with links and sources to prove it. Her claim is debunked and the Irving Gilmer exposed your fraud even more.

        http://www.flickr.com/photos/claycountymuseum/3606781103/

        "Photos contain their own facts as this photo does. There is no doubt this is a James family gathering as seen in the photo. That is a fact! This photo represents a real occurence that did exist."

        There is no provenance or documentation for the photo. Jesse James had already been dead almost 10 years before it was taken. James L. Courtney never knew Zerelda or anyone in the photo either. Got any proof? I didn't think so. Over the years lots of people claimed images were of famous outlaws. Most of them weren't when it came down to facial identification and the lack of documentation and provenance.

        See?

        http://shs.umsystem.edu/famousmissourians/folklegends/james/index.html
        http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e1/Jesse_James_dead_01.jpg

        "Betty Duke and I claim it is Zerelda James Samuel with her husband Reuben, Frank James and his wife, Jesse James and his wife and several Jackson family members based on facts presented in the photo. "

        What you "claim" has been proven wrong. "Claim" debunked -

        http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~jessejames/jamescourtney.html

        http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~jessejames/jlcdc.jpg
        http://www.thomaskinkadechico.com/oldsite/jlcdiary.htm

        http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GSln=courtney&GSfn=james&GSmn=l+&GSbyrel=in&GSdyrel=in&GSob=n&GRid=23319153&df=all&amp

        http://genforum.genealogy.com/cgi-bin/print.cgi?james::5434.html

        "Jesse James was killed in St. Joseph Missouri in 1882!"

        Fact.

        dna match, death photos, Zerelda, Jesse James Jr. "Jesse James My Father", Bob Ford, and countless other witnesses that didn't deny the body.

        http://shs.umsystem.edu/famousmissourians/folklegends/james/index.html
        http://trianglecranch.com/catalog/images/jesse_coffin.jpg

        http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e1/Jesse_James_dead_01.jpg

        "Once that claim is made based on the facts it is then up others to prove the claim wrong and none of the poosters on this blog have even come close. They are only interested in attacking the messenger!"

        But you have no facts and the claim has been debunked time and time again. It's just you continue to ignore it! That is why Jesse's life and death remains the same. You haven't changed anything with this hoax and your fake images. That's a FACT.

        Your attacking people is evident up and down this board. You evade and dodge as usual when you're defeated — the typical Ellison-way!

        You lose! :-)

    • 1.7
      John Smith says:

      Mr. Ellison,

      Can you or Ms. Duke answer these simple questions about the life of her great-grandfather known as James Lafayette Courtney?

      1. Why did he write instructions in his diary to return it to his uncle, E. L. Andruss, of Cass County, MO, the brother of his mother, Dianah Andruss Courtney/Haun?
      2. Why did he write a letter to his 1st cousin, Mary E. Taylor in 1916, stating that he had recently been to see his 96 year old “ma”? Note: Zerelda had been dead for 5 years.
      3. Why did he write in a 1917 letter to his cousin, Mary E. Taylor, that his mother had died the 8th of January 1917? Note: Mrs. D. D. Haun died in Morris County, Kansas, 8 January 1917.
      4. Why did he write this tribute to Andrew Jackson Haun, when Andrew Jackson Haun, a.k.a. Stephen Courtney died, “Paws Death November the 15 1882 Died in Kansas in Moras Co He was borned in East Tenesee and moved to Misouri in 1851 and he Professed Religion in 1852 and was Licensed to Preach and in 1864 he moved to Miami County Kansas and lived there until his death. His funeral preached from 2 Timothy 4 Chapter and Vs 7, and 8. Preached January the 28, 1883. Hymn 568, Methodist hymn. I would not live always & ask not To Stay”. ? Note: Robert Sallee James, father of Jesse James, died in 1850.
      5. Why was he named in the obituary of Robert W. Haun, of Pawnee, OK, as J. L., of Troy, Texas, one of two surviving brothers? T. N. of Parkersville, KS, was the other surviving brother. Note: Troy, Texas, was the home of James Lafayette Courtney for over 50 years.
      6. Why did he receive an Easter card from his “ma” in Parkersville, KS, two years after Zerelda’s death?
      7. Why did he apply for a pension for his service in the Union army and describe the treatment of men in his unit that led to his desertion? Note: Jesse James was a guerrilla that fought the Union forces.
      8. Why did he sell land, under Warranty Deed dated 7 April 1871. James L. Courtney of Miami County, Kansas sold land to William P. Ashby of Johnson County, Missouri, if he had become James L. Haun in the 1870 census of KS?
      9. Why did he write that “Paw” came to see him 28 September 1882 and left for home 13 October? Note: The obituary of Andrew J. Haun notes that he had been on a trip to visit friends in Missouri and Texas, and had returned home October 15.
      10. Why did he have a Bill of Sale notarized for one jack, dated October 1888, Notarized by F. M. Griggs, 20 December 1888, from E. V. Hairston to James L. Courtney, for his brother, R. W. Courtney?

      Mr. Ellison, are you a researcher or just Ms. Duke’s latest shill?

      • 1.7.1
        Greg Ellison says:

        Bro,

        You can go to the link below and ask those questions where the subject is being discussed rationally without the interference from the wackos. You could also try reading Betty Dorsett Duke's two books on the subject. They are very informative and answer most of your questions if not all of them. Of course one would think that being the critic that you are you would have already done that as a good critic would!

        http://forums.delphiforums.com/Zeke1/messages?msg=538.341

        Greg Ellison

      • 1.7.2
        John Smith says:

        Mr. Ellison,

        Thanks for responding to these simple questions posed in comment 1.7. You have made it abundantly clear that you are nothing other than Ms. Duke's most recent shill.

        Thank you

      • 1.7.3
        John Smith says:

        Mr. Ellison,

        Let's try this again. It is obvious 10 questions overwhelmed you, so we will go one at a time. I do not wish to discuss this questions on your forum, I simply want a straightforward answer.

        2. Why did James Lafayette Courtney write a letter to his 1st cousin, Mary E. Taylor in 1916, stating that he had recently been to see his 96 year old “ma”? Note: Zerelda had been dead for 5 years. Her obituary shows that she died in 1911.

        Please do not shovel out the BS from Ms. Duke that James Lafayette Courtney, aka Jesse James, regarded Dianah Andrus Haun as his "ma". That explanation is rubbish.

        Thank you.

    • 1.8
      M. E. Barron says:

      Greg Ellison says:
      2/6/2011 at 9:32 pm
      I would like to start the comments by saying that I am very proud of Betty Dorsett Duke for sticking to her guns while enduring many years of unfounded opposition. This photo represents the best proof that will ever be had as to the true identity of Jesse James. It is also my hope that her detractors do not attack the messenger as they are prone to do. Wild West Magazine is a stand-up organization and is eager to present new history and gives everyone that opportunity.

      Greg Ellison

      REPLY: I would like to add to the comments by saying that I am very proud of the Courtney and Barron families for sticking to their guns while enduring many years of unfounded claims and shameless notoriety by Betty Dorsett Duke in a vain attempt to distract from the true family and heritage of James L Courtney, who she claims is actually Jesse James living under an assumed name until he died in 1943.

      I am very proud of Judge Ross for feeling no need to be goaded and/or bullied into proving to her what he knows is his true heritage.

  2. 2
    Peter Hubbard says:

    As a collector of photos from the Old West, I’ll be very interested in seeing the provenance accompanying this image. It normally takes years of research to properly identify individuals in an image, not days or weeks. I sincerely hope that this specific information is outlined in the article.

    • 2.1
      Greg Ellison says:

      From what I gather there is no article. The images are in the Roundup section with captions only. The images and their provenance are being discussed on the Jesse James Photo Discussion Forum that is listed in the article at this address: http://forums.delphiforums.com/Zeke1 . You are welcome to read the comments by clicking on "Enter as Guest" or register to post a comment.

      I would be interested in seeing some of your collection and the provenance that you have for them and how it compares to the provenance associated with the Jesse James images.

      Greg Ellison

    • 2.2
      Bill Gregg says:

      Mr. Hubbard, I wholeheartedly agree. There has been an unseemly rush to identify Ms. Duke's relative as Jesse James in this photograph, but I understand it's not the first case in which she thought a man with a mustache was her great-grandfather.

      After viewing Mr. Ellison's collection, and seeing so many photographs in which his identification of their subjects is questionable, I cannot help but discount his ability at facial recognition.

      As one who has studied the Civil War and the Old West for 35 years, there are some things about that photograph that jumped out at me. It definitely includes Zerelda James Samuel, Dr. Reuben Samuel and Caroline Quantrill (seated to Zerelda's right — keeping in mind that the photo is reversed). The latter is important, as she made a well-documented extended visit to Missouri in 1888 – 1889, during which she stayed with Zerelda and Reuben for a time. There is no known evidence that she ever visited Texas. The dresses and hairdos worn by some of the women depicted support dating the photograph to the late 1880s. The identifications of Jesse James and Frank James' wife, Annie are highly suspect. There is no doubt that Jesse was killed in 1882, and Annie was an extremely petite woman — documented to have had an 18 inch waist!

      • 2.2.1
        Greg Ellison says:

        Mr. William "Bill" Gregg,

        I find your comments interesting for the simple reason that you claim Mrs. Duke has rushed to judgement to identify her Great-Grandfather as being in the above photo. I would say that some identifications are almost immediate given the documentation at hand. How do you then explain your claim that Caroline Quantrell is in the photo proving that it was taken in 1888? No extended research was done on Caroline Quantrell being in the photo and no provenance exist to prove your point. Only two references were found as to her visit in 1888. One spoke of her meeting with several former Quantrell men with no mention of women while the other article mentions several women and no men. Neither article represents the photo in question.

        You also assume that the photo was taken at the James Farm Home while Caroline was visiting there. The photo was not taken at the James Farm Home as is very clear by the high porch stoop in the full photo. The James Farm Home sets very close to the ground and does not have raised porches as shown in the photo. The house represent the home of Jesse James AKA James L. Courtney in Texas very well.

        Very little is known of Caroline Quantrell and unless you have a diary of her life you have no idea if she ever visited Texas or not. It is even thought by many that she was not Caroline Quantrell and was only pretending to be so. As you know, by the end of her trip in 1888 she was hated by everyone.

        As to Annie James being a petite woman that is correct. However, she always had a big head which is the only part of her body showing in the photos. The rest of her petite body is being swallowed up by the dress that is engulfing her. Why is her dress so big? I believe it is because it is her wedding dress. Frank is the only man wearing a white suit. Frank and Jesse are the only men wearing boutineers and all of the women are wearing corsages except one, Annie James, the bride.

        The clothing and hair styles fit the mid seventies to early eighties era perfectly. Your argument of the late eighties is not a vaild argument as it is simply to close to the time period that we assert the photo was taken so you are agreeing with us. In any given twenty year cycle you can see several different styles from those eras pictured in group photos. Nothing in the photo is out of the twenty year time frame.

        Since you have chosen to attack my credibilty personally I will provide a few of my accomplishmnets:

        *My Jesse James image collection is on permanent display at The Ray County Museum in the heart of Jesse James Country.

        *My Jesse James image collection has appeared in documentaries produced by Screaming Flea Productions, one of the largest documentarians in the world.

        *My Jesse James image collection has been seen on The History Channel multiple times.

        *My name has appeared in several publications including Wild West Magazine, 417 Magazine, many newspapers and hundreds of internet sites connect to my website world wide.

        Greg Ellison

      • 2.2.2
        Heidi S. says:

        I believe the person some people identify as Annie James to really be Margaret Ralston, her sister. You can see from a picture in Ted Yeatman's book that they look very similar to each other, but Annie is thinner. I believe the gentleman next to her to be her brother, Harry Ralston………based on the photo seen in Yeatman's book.

        I am no expert, however.

        Heidi

      • 2.2.3
        Fran Bolton says:

        2.2.2Heidi S. says:
        2/17/2011 at 2:28 pm
        "I believe the person some people identify as Annie James to really be Margaret Ralston, her sister. You can see from a picture in Ted Yeatman's book that they look very similar to each other, but Annie is thinner. I believe the gentleman next to her to be her brother, Harry Ralston………based on the photo seen in Yeatman's book. "

        Heidi, this is exactly the kind of thought, comment and investigation that is needed to properly identify the group of people in the photo! I have seen the photo of Margaret Ralston and agree she is more likely to be the woman seated on the ground than Annie Ralston James. I see Annie as the woman seated between Zerelda and the woman in the apron, compared to other photos of Annie.
        Do you refer to the gentleman in the light colored suit as Annie's brother Harry Ralston? To me, he does resemble one known photo of Harry and sister Margaret.

        Fran

    • 2.3
      Fran Bolton says:

      Mr Hubbard, I too questioned the provanance of the photos. Here is what I have learned so far, concerning the tintype of James L Courtney –this same tintype was offered on Ebay some time back, for $1 Million, that was claimed to be "passed down to me by family".
      I had seen that photo before, and after some googling I found where I had seen it, and the truth of the photo's provenance:

      http://www.jessejamesintexas.com/New_Whitsett_Evidence.pdf

      Page 10:
      "This tintype of my great-grandfather was given to me by Marion Gibbs who helped compile the book, “Families of Falls County”, produced by the Falls County TX Historical Commission. Marion Gibbs told me that she wanted me to have it because one of my cousins named Courtney had dropped it off at her home so it would be pictured in “Families of Falls County”.
      That Courtney cousin didn't return to get the picture after Marion Gibbs made numerous requests for them to do so. She then told me that this cousin named Courtney and several others proclaimed after the book was published that this photo was NOT James L. Courtney."

      Even a person such as myself who does not study old photos, clothing styles, etc., can understand the provanance of both photos needs more unhurried research and verification.

      Fran Bolton

      • 2.3.1
        Greg Ellison says:

        Fran Bolton,

        The readers may view Betty Dorsett Duke's own words which you continue to misquote even though you have been notified.

        http://www.jessejamesintexas.com/THE_JAMES_WHITSETT_ANDRUSS_CONNECTION.pdf (Scroll down to page 10.)

        This tintype is pictured in both of Betty's books, Jesse James Lived & Died In Texas (1998) and The Truth About Jesse James (2007):

        "This tintype of my great-grandfather was given to me by Ms. Marion Gibbs, one of the compliers of the book,
        “Families of Falls County”, compiled by the Falls County [Texas] Historical Commission. She explained that she wanted me to have it because one of my “Courtney” cousins had dropped it off at her home to be pictured in the book, but this cousin never returned to get the picture after numerous requests from Ms. Gibbs to do so. She then told me that this “Courtney” cousin, along with several others, proclaimed after the book was published that this is not a picture of my great-grandfather, known in Texas as James L. Courtney. I couldn’t help but laugh because my “Courtney” cousins sure do hold true to form in denying pictures they fully well know are images of my great-grandfather. However, they did tell her a bit of truth – the man in this picture isn’t James L. Courtney — he was Jesse James."

        Greg Ellison

      • 2.3.2
        Fran Bolton says:

        My comments about the provenance of the tintype were carefully paraphrased to not change the meaning of the quote, in order to avoid any possible copyright infringement.

        Fran Bolton

      • 2.3.3
        Greg Ellison says:

        Fran Bolton,

        You failed in your attempt at paraphrasing as to not change the meaning. That is a trick you have played for far too long.

        Greg Ellison

      • 2.3.4
        Greg Ellison says:

        I bring to this spot in the thread a quote by Dallas Hunt to answer the deception peretrated by Fran Bolton in the above post:

        "As for the comment Fran Bolton made( who is incidentally another detractor) she has completely misquoted a passage to fit her ends. She says the lady who compiled the falls county book was told that the man pictured in the tintype was not James Courtney. She fails and it is clear why to state the next sentence. The original source was posted by Betty Duke and in reality it said to summarize- " that the picture was not of James Courtney but that he was actually Jesse
        James!" this info was not put in the falls county family history book for
        obvious reasons."

        Fran Bolton and her genealogy group are know for changing data in a deceitful why to munipulate documents just as the example above proves to all readers.

        Greg Ellison

      • 2.3.5
        Heidi S. says:

        Hi Fran,

        Yes, the man in the light suit is the one I think is Harry Ralston.

        Heidi

    • 2.4
      Carol says:

      Not when you get the seller on ebay to notorize a document for you.

  3. 3
    Don Jackson says:

    My great grand father, J.Z. Jackson is the younger man with the moustache and beard on the left end of the photograph. He was born in 1847 in Caass County Georgia. His family migrated to McClennan County Texas in 1857. J.Z. Jackson married Amanda Austin in Waco in 1865 and moved to Falls County in 1865. He was a neighbor to James L. Courtney for 50 years. My father had his appendix remove at the King Daughters Hospital in Temple Texas and stayed with his grandparents during his recuperation. His grand father told him at that time that his neighbor< James L. Courtney was a famous outlaw. He would not reveal hisname saying that it was a Masonic secret. The comparision photos have been posted in the Jesse james section of the Delphi Forums under the thread J.Z. Jackson Jesse James Neighbor thread.

    • 3.1
      Fran Bolton says:

      All families have oral stories, some relating to famous people, that is why one must research the dickens out of them! Genealogy is a fascinating hobby, if one has time.
      This could be a clue to your "James L (Layfayette) Courtney was a famous outlaw" quote:
      http://www.txgenweb6.org/txfalls/bioCOURTNEYjameslafayette.htm
      Excerpt #1. "John Clark who had been camping on the "wrong" side of the creek, turned Lafayette in for carrying a pistol – which was against the law in post Civil War Texas. …For several months, Lafayette Courtney avoided the Sheriff so as not to receive the "Summons" for a hearing…….He was, however, finally tried and jailed for nine months."

      Excerpt #2."The gentleman kept a diary all of his life".

      Fran Bolton

    • 3.2
      Greg Ellison says:

      Don,

      It has been my pleasure talking with you on the phone about your great-grandfather J. Z. Jackson. It is really something that he lived next door to Jesse James aka James L. Courtney and you were able to identify him and other family members in the photo. I believe the Masonic secret is also why Jesse James never revealed his true identity while he was alive.

      Greg Ellison

    • 3.3
      Betty Dorsett Duke says:

      Don,

      I am so very glad that Great-Grandfather J. Z. Jackson is pictured in the Ebay photo of the James family. Since he was Jesse James AKA James Courtney's neighbor and friend and did not like to travel far from home he is the key to determining where the picture was taken.

      Thanks for stepping forward with this information that helps determine my true heritage, it is very much appreciated.

      Betty

      • 3.3.1
        Carol says:

        J,Z, Jackson not in that photo either. Show everyone here where Zerelda and Reuben went to Texas at the time this photo was taken. And it can't be 1875 and it has to be before 1900.

      • 3.3.2
        Greg Ellison says:

        Carolyn A. S. Holmes,

        I suppose you believe that Zerelda and Reuben would have announced to the world that they were going to Texas to the home of their outlaw son, Jesse James, to attend the wedding of their other oulaw son, Frank James, right? Now that wouldn't have been a very smart thing for Zerelda and Reuben to have done, would it?

        No wonder you're not a good researcher and get things easily confused! I'm glad that you agree that it is Frank and Annie in the photo though! That is obvious to most people.

        Greg Ellison

      • 3.3.3
        Carol says:

        Zerelda and Reuben had no reason to announce to the world that they were going to Texas to visit their outlaw son because they had no outlaw son living in Texas at the time that photo was taken. A good researcher doesn't try to shove a square peg into a round hole. As for the photo and who is in it. Although the man in the brown suit sitting on the ground looks like Frank James I would have to agree that that man is Irving Gilmer. As for the man standing next to Reuben, I would have to say that he is W.W. Scott. In 1901 Reuben was placed in the St. Joseph Lunatic Asylum and he died there in 1908. So if Reuben is in that photo the photo has to date 1885 to 1900. Zee dies Nov. 13, 1900 so that also makes the photo have to date before 1899 at least. In the year 1894 Frank, Annie and Robert move back to St. Louis and in 1992 Frank worked in Parris, Texas. 1875 was the year Pinkerton threw the bomb in the window at the Samuel Farm and blew off Zerelda's are. She was in the hospital for a month after that happened. Why did you use the photo of Travis Barron as JLC and not use the JLC photo on your book?

      • 3.3.4
        Greg Ellison says:

        Carol,

        So your going to ride the Gilmer train now? Which row do you put him in! Ha! Taking that position is a loser and you know it. Talk about shoving a square peg into a round hole! The rest of that stuff you said is gibberish!

        Greg Ellison

      • 3.3.5
        Rollie Taylor says:

        Carol,

        The late arriving shill that jumped on the JLC buggy 10 years after it pulled out of the station must have been promised a hefty percentage of book sales of funny book #3.

        Rollie

      • 3.3.6
        Greg Ellison says:

        Rollie Taylor,

        I noticed that you also are riding the Gilmer train!

        Even after you agreed with Armand DeGregoris that Gilmer was on the back row you then agreed with a genealogist, Glynda Aulston Campbell, when she claimed he is on the front row of the photograph.

        When did you start using a genealogist a bad one at that, as your photo authenticater?

        It seems that you will agree with anybody about anything as long as they are against Betty Duke or Greg Ellison. It is good to know how you work!

        Thanks for proving that to us!

        Greg Ellison

      • 3.3.7
        Frank says:

        To quote Glynda4gen:

        "http://www.familytreedna.com/public/james/default.aspx

        This is where Eldon can send his DNA sample…..He will then find out just how much of a True Courtney he is …..

        There is not one James on that project he will match…..in markers…. no need to disturb James L. Courtney's grave.

        One hundred dollars will tell the tale….."

        What are you so afraid of, Jesse James imposters? Go get this done and solve your problems once and for all. :-)

    • 3.4
      Frank says:

      Mr. Jackson,

      Hearsay is information gathered by one person from another person concerning some event, condition, or thing of which the first person had no direct experience. When submitted as evidence, such statements are called hearsay evidence. As a legal term, "hearsay" can also have the narrower meaning of the use of such information as evidence to prove the truth of what is asserted. Such use of "hearsay evidence" in court is generally not allowed. This prohibition is called the hearsay rule.

      Mr. Don Jackson is offering hearsay as proof. Not just hearsay, but hearsay about hearsay. J. Z. Jackson did not know James L. Courtney was a famous outlaw. J. Z. was told JLC was an outlaw. J. Z. had no way of knowing if that was a true statement. That hearsay was related again as hearsay to Don's father. The hearsay was repeated for the third time by Don's father to his son Don. Admissable in court? Not a snowflake's chance in hell.

      Mr. Jackson professes to see his great-grandfather in the group photograph of Zerelda and Reuben Samuel, but is surely mistaken. Don has stated that J. Z. never went beyond Waco. J. Z. certainly wasn't in Clay County, MO, for the 1888 visit of Caroline Quantrill with families of members of the Quantrill guerrillas where the photo was made. There are newspaper articles about this visit.

  4. 4
    Bill Gregg says:

    Mr. Ellison,

    "Only two references were found as to her [Caroline Quantrill] visit in 1888. One spoke of her meeting with several former Quantrell [sic] men with no mention of women while the other article mentions several women and no men."
    If you have found only two references to her 1888 – 1889 visit to Missouri, then your research is sadly lacking. The newspapers of the time contain numerous accounts. She wrote many letters to W.W. Scott during her stay (now held at the Rice Library at the Univ. of Kansas). William Connelley documented her visit in "Quantrill and the Border Wars." This was her only documented trip west from her home in Dover, Ohio.

    "Very little is known of Caroline Quantrell [sic] and unless you have a diary of her life you have no idea if she ever visited Texas or not."
    Her life has been pretty well documented. I refer you to the W. W. Scott Collection.

    "It is even thought by many that she was not Caroline Quantrell [sic] and was only pretending to be so."
    That was the case of a few people at the time, but such disbelief was soon dispelled by the testomony of those who knew her.

    "As you know, by the end of her trip in 1888 she was hated by everyone."
    By all accounts, she was an unpleasant woman who soon wore out her welcome wherever she stayed while in Missouri. Incidently, her trip ended in 1889.

    "You also assume that the photo was taken at the James Farm Home while Caroline was visiting there."
    I have not made any such assumption. While I believe the photograph was taken at a gathering in Clay County, Missouri, it obviously was not at the James-Samuel home.

    "The house represent [sic] the home of Jesse James AKA James L. Courtney in Texas very well."
    What few identifying features of the house are visible in the photograph can be found in thousands of houses of that period.

    "However, she [Annie] always had a big head which is the only part of her body showing in the photos [sic]."
    You identified her by the size of her head?

    "I believe it is because it is her wedding dress."
    Frank and Annie were married in 1874, although some sources say 1875. There is no evidence that they were married in Texas.

    "The clothing and hair styles fit the mid seventies to early eighties era perfectly."
    That's the case for some of the older women, but many are dressed and have hairdos that do not pre-date the late 1880s.

    "Your argument of the late eighties is not a vaild argument as it is simply to close to the time period that we assert the photo was taken so you are agreeing with us."
    I most emphatically do NOT agree with you.

    "In any given twenty year cycle you can see several different styles from those eras pictured in group photos. Nothing in the photo is out of the twenty year time frame."
    Generally speaking, older women tended (and still do) to retain older styles, while younger ones are more fashion conscious. One often sees a range of fashion in group photographs, but they can usually be dated by the most recent style worn by some of the subjects. In this case, it's the late 1880s.

    • 4.1
      Greg Ellison says:

      Mr. Gregg, Your words are in quotes below:

      "If you have found only two references to her 1888 – 1889 visit to Missouri, then your research is sadly lacking."

      I was refering to mentions of photographs taken. We are talking about the newly discovered photograph. There were only to mentions of photographs being taken during Caroline Quantrells's visit and neither describe this photo of the James Family.

      "Her life has been pretty well documented. I refer you to the W. W. Scott Collection."

      W. W. Scott's work has long been considered a feeble attempt to defraud people of their money. I see that you take a lot of stock in it!

      "That was the case of a few people at the time, but such disbelief was soon dispelled by the testomony (sic) of those who knew her."

      It isn't dispelled even today as there is much discussion on that very subject.

      "Incidently, her trip ended in 1889."

      I didn't say her trip ended in 1888, I said her trip in 1888. Comprehend what you read, Please! It was you that first stated that her visit was only two weeks. Of course that was under another one of your usernames.

      "I have not made any such assumption. While I believe the photograph was taken at a gathering in Clay County, Missouri, it obviously was not at the James-Samuel home."

      Thank you for clearing that up for all of your friends that still claim the photo was taken at the James Farm in Kearney, Missouri. Some of them have always had a hard time seeing details in photographs. The Hunley Captain – George Dixon photo to name one!

      "What few identifying features of the house are visible in the photograph can be found in thousands of houses of that period."

      But they are found in these two photos that match perfectly that also have the same people in them.

      "You identified her by the size of her head?"

      Is that what you think I said Chuck? I have studied the face of Annie James for many years. She has an unusual face. Armand DeGregoris has an image of her that is an exact match to the way she looks in this new photo. There is also a very close likeness of her in Ted Yeatman's book as a young girl. The look of her face didn't change that much.

      "There is no evidence that they were married in Texas."

      There was no evidence that they were married anywhere until now as their wedding was photographed and has now been revealed!

      "……many are dressed and have hairdos that do not pre-date the late 1880s."

      Where is your proof of that, Chuck? Were you there? Given your inablity to understand many of my points clearly I do not see how you could make that determination of only a few years difference over 130 years ago.

      "I most emphatically do NOT agree with you."

      I think you are closer to agreeing with us than you think. False arguments are easily seen and that is what yours appear to be.

      "Generally speaking, older women tended (and still do) to retain older styles, while younger ones are more fashion conscious. One often sees a range of fashion in group photographs, but they can usually be dated by the most recent style worn by some of the subjects. In this case, it's the late 1880s."

      See what I mean! You contradict yourself in this statement and offer no proof of your statement. We offer proof to back our statements. The photographs prove our statements and vice versa.

      Greg Ellison
      http://www.theellisoncollection.com

    • 4.2
      Greg Ellison says:

      Mr. Gregg, Your words are in quotes below:

      "If you have found only two references to her 1888 – 1889 visit to Missouri, then your research is sadly lacking."

      I was refering to mentions of photographs taken. We are talking about the newly discovered photograph. There were only to mentions of photographs being taken during Caroline Quantrells's visit and neither describe this photo of the James Family.

      "Her life has been pretty well documented. I refer you to the W. W. Scott Collection."

      W. W. Scott's work has long been considered a feeble attempt to defraud people of their money. I see that you take a lot of stock in it!

      "That was the case of a few people at the time, but such disbelief was soon dispelled by the testomony (sic) of those who knew her."

      It isn't dispelled even today as there is much discussion on that very subject.

      "Incidently, her trip ended in 1889."

      I didn't say her trip ended in 1888, I said her trip in 1888. Comprehend what you read, Please! It was you that first stated that her visit was only two weeks. Of course that was under another one of your usernames.

      "I have not made any such assumption. While I believe the photograph was taken at a gathering in Clay County, Missouri, it obviously was not at the James-Samuel home."

      Thank you for clearing that up for all of your friends that still claim the photo was taken at the James Farm in Kearney, Missouri. Some of them have always had a hard time seeing details in photographs. The Hunley Captain – George Dixon photo to name one!

      "What few identifying features of the house are visible in the photograph can be found in thousands of houses of that period."

      But they are found in these two photos that match perfectly that also have the same people in them.

      "You identified her by the size of her head?"

      Is that what you think I said Chuck? I have studied the face of Annie James for many years. She has an unusual face. Armand DeGregoris has an image of her that is an exact match to the way she looks in this new photo. There is also a very close likeness of her in Ted Yeatman's book as a young girl. The look of her face didn't change that much.

      "There is no evidence that they were married in Texas."

      There was no evidence that they were married anywhere until now as their wedding was photographed and has now been revealed!

      "……many are dressed and have hairdos that do not pre-date the late 1880s."

      Where is your proof of that, Chuck? Were you there? Given your inablity to understand many of my points clearly I do not see how you could make that determination of only a few years difference over 130 years ago.

      "I most emphatically do NOT agree with you."

      I think you are closer to agreeing with us than you think. False arguments are easily seen and that is what yours appear to be.

      "Generally speaking, older women tended (and still do) to retain older styles, while younger ones are more fashion conscious. One often sees a range of fashion in group photographs, but they can usually be dated by the most recent style worn by some of the subjects. In this case, it's the late 1880s."

      See what I mean! You contradict yourself in this statement and offer no proof of your statement. We offer proof to back our statements. The photographs prove our statements and vice versa.

      Greg Ellison

      • 4.2.1
        Bill Gregg says:

        Mr. Ellison,
        You seem very quick to jump to conclusions. Let me address your replies one by one.

        "I was refering to mentions of photographs taken. We are talking about the newly discovered photograph. There were only to mentions of photographs being taken during Caroline Quantrells's visit and neither describe this photo of the James Family."
        Not that it's relevalent, but you should have stated what you were referring to, rather than saying "Only two references were found as to her visit in 1888." Not every photograph taken rated mention, let alone reproduction, in a newspaper.

        "W. W. Scott's work has long been considered a feeble attempt to defraud people of their money. I see that you take a lot of stock in it!"
        The bulk of the collection I mentioned is composed of letters from Caroline Quantrill to W. W. Scott. I take it that you are not familiar with that collection.

        "It [the belief that it wasn't Caroline Quantrill that visited Missouri in 1888 -1889] isn't dispelled even today as there is much discussion on that very subject."
        There will always be conspiracy theorists who deny documented reality.

        "I didn't say her trip ended in 1888, I said her trip in 1888. Comprehend what you read, Please! It was you that first stated that her visit was only two weeks. Of course that was under another one of your usernames."
        I comprehend very well. I made no statement that her visit was only two weeks. Your statement that I made it under another username is another example of jumping to conclusions.

        "Thank you for clearing that up for all of your friends that still claim the photo was taken at the James Farm in Kearney, Missouri. Some of them have always had a hard time seeing details in photographs. The Hunley Captain – George Dixon photo to name one!"
        I gather from what you and Ms. Hunt have said that some have expressed a belief that the photograph was taken at the James-Samuel home. As I said earlier, I disagree. I am not familiar with the "Hunley Captain – George Dixon photo" you speak of.

        "But they [identifying features of the house] are found in these two photos that match perfectly that also have the same people in them."
        Since the other of the "two photos" is not available, I'll reserve comment on the structures. My visit to your website compels me to be sceptical about your identification of the persons depicted.

        "Is that what you think I said Chuck? I have studied the face of Annie James for many years. She has an unusual face. Armand DeGregoris has an image of her that is an exact match to the way she looks in this new photo. There is also a very close likeness of her in Ted Yeatman's book as a young girl. The look of her face didn't change that much."
        I assume that you mistake me for Mr. Rabas, as he states that he is "a long-time critic of Betty Duke's claim…" I have a copy of Mr. Yeatman's book on my desk. To POSITIVELY identify the woman in the photograph only by comparing it to the documented ones without credible provenence requires a giant leap of faith. A search reveals that the photograph pictured in Wild West has been cropped. The original image shown on e-bay had a typed notation on the edge identifying that woman as Frank and Jesse's sister — as questionable as its identifying the seated men as Frank and Jesse.

        "There was no evidence that they [Frank and Annie] were married anywhere until now as their wedding was photographed and has now been revealed!"
        Annie left her home in Independence, Missouri in June, 1874, telling her parents she was going to visit friends in Kansas City and Omaha. The next communication from her to her parents was to inform them that she was married. No marriage license in their names has been found, but it's reasonable to believe they were wed in or around Omaha. There is NO evidence whatsoever to suggest that they were married in Texas.

        "Where is your proof of that, Chuck? Were you there? Given your inablity to understand many of my points clearly I do not see how you could make that determination of only a few years difference over 130 years ago."
        Again, I am not Mr. Rabas. As living historians, my wife and I made an extensive study of period styles. The differences between those of the mid-1870s and the late 1880s are significant enough to be easily discernable.

        Your last two comments make no sense at all.

      • 4.2.2
        Greg Ellison says:

        Mr. Gregg,

        Your statements are falling on deaf ears as you presented nothing new to back them up including your supposed expertise in fashions. If a resume' of your work were presented I might take your seriously. Until then I don't.

        The Quantrell name was spelled with an "e" by him and by people who new him. It was only later that book authors began spelling it with an "i". One of the many reasons to doubt the entire story of Caroline Quantr"i"ll. If she were truely who she said she was her name would have been spelled Quantrell!

        Greg Ellison

      • 4.2.3
        Bill Gregg says:

        Mr Ellison,
        "The Quantrell name was spelled with an "e" by him and by people who new him. It was only later that book authors began spelling it with an "i". One of the many reasons to doubt the entire story of Caroline Quantr"i"ll. If she were truely who she said she was her name would have been spelled Quantrell!"

        Once again, I refer you to the W. W. Scott Collection, every item of which I have personally read. The bulk of the collection is letters from Caroline Quantrill, but it also contains letters from William C. Quantrill — several to his mother and one to Scott. In EVERY case Quantrill is spelled with an "i" in the signature. Stating outright untruths as fact doesn't help your credibility.

      • 4.2.4
        Bill Gregg says:

        To quote one of my earlier statements, "A search reveals that the photograph pictured in Wild West has been cropped. The original image shown on e-bay had a typed notation on the edge identifying that woman as Frank and Jesse's sister — as questionable as its identifying the seated men as Frank and Jesse."

        It might be interesting to others here to know EXACTLY (original capitalization, punctuation, spacing, etc.) what was typed on the margins of the photograph in question (Bracketed comments are mine.):

        [on right margin as you look at it] PICTURE REVERSED…believed to be a sister of FRANK..the tall man with dark mustache, seated [on left margin] her leftis supposed to be JESSE JAMES…

  5. 5
    Dallas Hunt says:

    Mr. Hubbard and Mr. Bill Greg there has been no rush to identify those individuals in Betty Dukes eBay photo the things we have found can be viewed on Greg Ellisons Delphi forum. Another photo I found also appears in the same article it is of a 1921 Quantrell Reunion that was originally found in the Kansas City Times. James Courtney is clearly in between to former Bushwackers and he is even wearing the same coat that he wore in known photos of his that appear in Bettys first book. So I ask of yall what is a Northerner doing at a confederate Reunion? Better yet what is a man who is said and I believe to be Jesse James doing at a Quantrell Reunion? He fought with Quantrell though not directly under him, so what is this man doing there? There is only one possible explanation, and that is that he was Jesse James.The new photo found clearly shows Reuben and Zerelda Samuel who were Jesse's Step-father and mother respectfully and as for the Caroline Quantrell Identification I would like to see some better proof as the women above her looks just like Caroline Quantrell to so which one is who? Yall are not being diligent researchers if yall think that Mrs. Quantrell could not have visited Texas before she came out as Quantrells mother in 1888, we have few records on the lady so it is very very plausible in fact it is likely. Other people who appear in this new photo are known members of The Jackson family who were neighbors to the Courtneys in Blevins, Texas. Jim Jackson is standing next to Reuben Samuels and on the opposite end is one of James Courtneys known best friends named J.Z. Jackson and standing next to J.Z. is his brother Solomon or Sol. I have talked to J.Z's great-grandson Don Jackson over the phone and he tells me that J.Z never left the farm after he moved to Texas in 1870? 1875? I cannot recall the exact date but to make a long story short that photo could not have been taken on the James Farm in Missouri in 1888 because J.Z. would not have left the farthest he ever got was to towns like Waco etc. the family says. The other problem of it being taken at the James Farm is it is clearly not the Farm the porches simply do not match however the porche of James Courtney and that of the new do down to a T! Lastly please explain to me why James courtney AKA Jesse James is also in the photo with his wife sitting behind him? that identification is sound and clear any comparisons to known images of both Jesse and Courtney will show that.

    • 5.1
      Greg Ellison says:

      Dallas,

      Those are very good points about Don Jackson identifying his relatives that are in the photo. There is no better evidence than a family member coming forward and saying that is their relatives for a positive ID. But of course, Betty Duke has done the same same thing with her identification of her Great-Grandfather Jesse James and his family being in the photo.

      Greg Ellison

      • 5.1.1
        Carol says:

        My relatives are in that photo too.

      • 5.1.2
        Greg Ellison says:

        Carol,

        Yes I know. I saw the dog!

        (Sorry everyone, I just had to do that given all of the mean personal comments Carol has said on my forum in the past. Please excuse the humor. She was removed from all Delphi Forums due to her actions just like another person we all know was, Frank.)

        Greg Ellison

  6. 6
    Captain Hurst says:

    Found this interesting article;

    "Good Parents of Famous Outlaws"

    St. Louis, Mo., Oct. 9, 1888 – Mrs. Caroline C. Quantrill,
    mother of Wm. C. Wuantrill, the once famous bushwhacker and
    guerilla leader, is a guest of Mrs. Zuelda Samuels, mother of
    the famous Jesse James, at Mrs. Samuel's home near Liberty,
    Mo. The occasion has been made a sort of family reunion. Mrs.
    Samuels and Mrs. Quantrill have a friendly feeling for each
    other, owing to the similar experiences of their boys. .Both of
    them had good husbands who were men of character and education.
    Mrs. Quantrill's husband was a college professor, and Mrs.
    Samuel's first husband, Rev. Robert James, was a schoolmaster
    and a respected minister. Jesse James' grave is in a corner of
    the yard, and the spot is well cared for by a mother's hand.
    On a tree that stands near the front gate still hangs the sign:
    "All strangers 25 cents admittance."

    Reprinted in the Dallas Morning News, Oct.16, 1888, pg. 8.

    • 6.1
      Greg Ellison says:

      Captain Hurst,

      That article proves without any doubt that the scene in the newly discovered James Family photo and the gathering during Mrs. Quantrells visit to the James Farm in 1888 are not one in the same as it has already been established that the photo was not taken at the James-Samuel Farm near Liberty. Thank you for posting it.

      Greg Ellison

      • 6.1.1
        Chuck Rabas says:

        Gregg,

        You are trying a classic "straw man" argument. You and Dallas insist that the photo was not taken at the James Farm. The only mention of that by any of your critics was to state that he did not believe it was taken there.

      • 6.1.2
        Greg Ellison says:

        Chuck Rabas,

        You are the one that agreed that the photo was NOT taken at the James Farm in Kearney. You had originally said it was taken at the Ralston home until you saw a photo of the Ralston Mansion and you then quickly changed your story. A couple of members from your group have said it was taken at the James Farm in Kearney and they are wrong and you agree with that. I told you that you agree with us more than you realize you do.

        Greg Ellison

      • 6.1.3
        Chuck Rabas says:

        Greg,
        You say "You had originally said it was taken at the Ralston home…".

        You're trying to put words in my mouth. I may have raised that possibility, but I don't make definitive statements unless I have something substantial with which to back them.

      • 6.1.4
        Greg Ellison says:

        Chuck Rabas,

        You have made many "definitive statements" on my forum without offering anything to back them up. In fact, when asked to present facts to back up your statements you simply ingnore the request.

        You put your own words in your mouth and then close it when asked to prove your mouth full of words. We have all seen in time and time again!

        Greg Ellison

      • 6.1.5
        Carol says:

        What happened? Did a tornado hit the James Farm in Mo. and sweep it up and take it all the way to Texas. I hear they are passing out brains in the land of OZ. Hook on over with your scare crow and Dorthy and perhaps they can get a heart and some courage.
        Is Lou a detractor now?

  7. 7
    Peter Hubbard says:

    Well played Mr. Gregg!

    • 7.1
      Chuck Rabas says:

      Peter,

      As a long-time critic of Betty Duke's claim to be the g-grandaughter, I'm glad to see others step up on this forum and expose her desperate grasping at what can only be politely described as extremely fragile straws.

      • 7.1.1
        Greg Ellison says:

        Chuck,

        They stepped up to the plate and struck out just like you did. When the traditionalist are forced to present facts to back their story they always fail to do so. I would ask you to present one provable fact, with documentation to back it up, from the traditional story of Jesse James. I'll bet you can't do that.

        If you are up to the challenge this should start a good string of discussion that will settle some old Jesse James myths. My guess would be that you are not up to it.

        Greg Ellison

      • 7.1.2
        Fran Bolton says:

        It is so sad to see someone trying to prove her gr-grandfather James L Courtney was actually Jesse James with this thought about the census records, that are one of the most valuable tools the genealogy world has to offer : "trash talk about censuses".

        Fran Bolton

      • 7.1.3
        Carol says:

        Her story was blown out of the water many years ago. Don works in law enforcement. I would hate to know how many people he sent to prison who looks like the criminal he was after. God forbid they ever use a sketch artist.

      • 7.1.4
        Carol says:

        Well Chuck
        Mrs. Duke is the proud owner of Sue Laura Hale's mtDNA;

        Which Duke says is identical to Zerelda's and was taken under strict chain of custody guidelines.

        It's better to use Sue Laura Hale's mtDNA as a reference source because who knows if Zerelda's bones are really her bones after the 1995 exhumation?

        Remember when she walked in to the meeting of the minds with Judge Ross with DNA test kit in hand. Open wide!!!

        Why hasn't she tested Sue Laura Hales mtdna against Eldon. OH my, to have such a relic in your possession. No need for a licked envelop or licked stamp. Right!!!

    • 7.2
      Greg Ellison says:

      Thank you for the compliment Mr. Hubbard.

      Greg Ellison

    • 7.3
      Frank says:

      "In fact, when asked to present facts to back up your statements you simply ingnore the request. "

      Greg Ellison just described himself and the scammer he supports perfectly. Such hypocrisy!

      Chuck Rabas is a respected historian and good man. The same can't be said of the image scammer that is known as Greg Ellison. I remember Ellison's vendetta against Chuck came when Mr. Rabas denied his image collection when Ellison requested him to verify some images. It was a crushing blow and it seems Ellison still isn't over it today. Too funny!

  8. 8
    Dallas Hunt says:

    To those unfamiliar readers of these comments, Betty Dukes detractors have and still do utilize aliases to harass and spread misinformation on the Internet about her great-grandfather Jesse James. This is by no means a calling out of anyone in particular but I seek to make notice of a man In the this comment section who goes under the name of Bill Greg( who was incidentally a captain under Jesses commander William Clarke Quantrell, so the name is likely an alias). As you can see Mr. Greg is vehementally opposed to Bettys claim. Incidentally on Greg Ellisons Delphi forum (whose link has been posted a few posts up) there was recently a new member who visited and had created a Delphi account the day " Bill Greg" posted here. His name was Capt. Greg! Hmm I wonder if that's the same detractor? If you don't believe me go on the site and look under the members visit section there of a few days ago.

    As for the comment Fran Bolton made( who is incidentally another detractor) she has completely misquoted a passage to fit her ends. She says the lady who compiled the falls county book was told that the man pictured in the tintype was not James Courtney. She fails and it is clear why to state the next sentence. The original source was posted by Betty Duke and in reality it said to summarize- " that the picture was not of James Courtney but that he was actually Jesse
    James!" this info was not put in the falls county family history book for
    obvious reasons. So you can clearly see how some choose to lie in order to misinform the public. Much evidence has been found to indicate James Courtney was in fact Jesse James. I encourage every reader to look into the story and see the truth.

    Oh and for Mr. Bill Greg I was not calling him out merely pointing out some rather odd circumstances that leave one to wonder. I admit I could very well be wrong in my assessment but I highly doubt it considering the past detractors and there use of aliases.

    • 8.1
      Bill Gregg says:

      Ms. Hunt,
      Irrevalent,incoherent, paranoid bombastic rants have no place here. One could get the impression that you check under your bed for burglars before retiring for the night.

      There is only one reason for anyone to believe the photograph in question depicts what Ms. Duke, Mr. Ellison, Mr. Jackson and you claim. That is a somewhat vague similarity of some of its subjects to photographs of other persons. To make a positive statement based on that, while ignoring or denying credible evidence to the contrary belies any objectivity whatsoever.

      Ms. Goodson makes an excellent point; "If the original owner, Lee Starnes had thought it was really Jesse and Frank James in the picture, why didn't he share his find with others?" If he thought there was anything significant about the photograph, he would have been shouting it from the rooftop.

      • 8.1.1
        Greg Ellison says:

        Ms. Gregg, (I gues that is how you prefer to be addressed since you addressed Mr. Hunt in that manner.)

        Would you please present some of your "credible evidence" that refutes the similarities that you have now agreed exist in the photo. I, and everyone, would be very interested in seeing this "credible evidence" that you speak of!

        I'll start you off: What is your "credible evidence" that J.Z. Jackson is not in the photo when he has been identified by his descendant and he has an eye affliction that is very discernable in all photos of him?

        Greg Ellison

      • 8.1.2
        Bill Gregg says:

        My apologies to Mr. Hunt. The only persons named Dallas that I have known have been women.

    • 8.2
      Fran Bolton says:

      Dallas, you have made a mistake in quoting. Please read my comment again, 2.3 and you will realize it was the Courtney cousin and others who said the tintype was James L Courtney. Reading the source in full, you will find it was Betty Duke who said it was not James L Courtney, it is Jesse James.
      Her opinion had nothing to do with what the Courtney cousin said to Ms. Gibbs.
      You said: "this info was not put in the falls county family history book for
      obvious reasons."
      The most obvious reason was the book was already printed.

      Fran Bolton

      • 8.2.1
        Fran Bolton says:

        Correct my typo in leaving out the word "not":
        "it was the Courtney cousin and others who said the tintype was not James L Courtney."

        Fran Bolton

  9. 9
    Thomas Jones says:

    A very interesting photo of Zerelda and Caroline Quantrill in front of Zerelda's house. Amazing resemblance to the women in the center of the group photo. One might even say it was Zerelda and Caroline in the group photo.
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/claycountymuseum/3606781103/in/set-72157619435838298/

    • 9.1
      Greg Ellison says:

      Thomas,

      The photo that you posted a link to has long been identified as Fannie, not Caroline, the daughter of Zerelda as it is in the link your posted. At the distance the subjects are from the camera how could you possibly make a determination of who the person in the photo is that disagrees with the Clay County Museum. The Clay County Museum is the expert on this photo.

      So, a serious researcher would not say that is the same woman as in the group photo unless it is Fannie in the group photo, not Caroline.

      Greg Ellison

      • 9.1.1
        Thomas Jones says:

        I understand your line of reasoning, Mr. Ellison. However, the 1870 census of Clay County, MO, shows the age of Fannie Q. Samuel as 7 years old. Dear God, do you believe that the woman depicted in the photograph of Zerelda’s home with Zerelda and Reuben, and in the center of the group photo is 10 or 11 years old??

      • 9.1.2
        Greg Ellison says:

        Thomas,

        The Clay County Museum is were you need to direct that question. I only reported who they had identified it as being. I have no idea what year they put on that photo and the quality of the image is to poor for any kind of facial identifications to be made from it.

        Greg Ellison

      • 9.1.3
        Thomas Jones says:

        So now, Mr. Ellison, you have digressed from pontificating about the serious research of others; instead, refusing to acknowledge your failure to research the age of Fannie Quantrill Samuel before commenting. Now you prefer to lay the blame for your negligence at the doorstep of the Clay County Museum, Real men admit when they are wrong.

      • 9.1.4
        Greg Ellison says:

        Thomas,

        You had better start admitting you're wrong then! I said the face of the woman was too distorted to lay claim to who that woman is and the Clay County Museum identifies her as Fannie.

        A real man would know that and contact the musuem if he has questions about that image. A real man wouldn't use it to make a false claim by changing the name of the identified person just for their own personal benefit!

        Greg Ellison

      • 9.1.5
        Thomas Jones says:

        Mr. Ellison,
        Your penchant for interminable argument is not conducive to a meaningful discussion. Good day.

      • 9.1.6
        Greg Ellison says:

        Thomas Jones,

        When defeated, take you toys and run!

        Greg Ellison

      • 9.1.7
        Judy says:

        Mr. Ellison,
        The Clay County Museum identifies the person as Mrs. Fannie Quantrill not Fannie Quantrill Samuels. I'm sure you have zoomed in on the picture and can tell that is an elderly woman that seems to be wearing the same dress as in the ebay group photo. Take special note of the man sitting on the edge of the porch, identified as Irving Gilmer, to me he looks like the person Ms. Duke is claiming as Jesse James. His hat is sitting on the lap of the young lady in the middle of the group ebay photo. Maybe this will help you, I actually think the quality of this photo is better than the e-bay photo.

        http://www.flickr.com/photos/claycountymuseum/3606781103/sizes/o/in/set-72157619435838298/

        Judy

      • 9.1.8
        Greg Ellison says:

        Hi Judy, It's been awhile,

        I'm sure that you have watched this discussion and others and are aware that my position is that as a reporter, which is what Irving Gilmer was at the time you claim of 1888, he would not have posed with the James Family. In all of my years of researching 19th centruy photography I've NEVER see a family photograph that has a reporter in the photo that was there doing a story on the famliy, especially wearing flowers. I think it would have been just as weird back then as it would be today for that to have happened. There is no known freindship between Gilmer and the James family.

        I do not think the clarity of the Clay County Museum glass plate allows for an identification to match to the new photo. Gilmer is in the shadows. If you think the mustaches match and that is your proof then you are as good as the other detractors.

        Her name was Caroline and there is no record of her ever going by Fannie. Zerelda's daughter was Fannie Quantrell. Take it up with the Clay County Museum, the owner and identifier of the image.

        Greg Ellison

      • 9.1.9
        Judy says:

        So it's this kind of clarity you and Mr. Jackson needed to make a positive identification of his relative that you claim is in the photo?

        http://forums.delphiforums.com/zeke1/messages?msg=589.9

        Just click enter as a guest if your not already a member of Delphi.

      • 9.1.10
        Greg Ellison says:

        Judy,

        Thank you for posting that link from my forum. The readers here can read the comments on the forum and see how the evidence proves J. Z. Jackson is the person in the photo.

        Very intersting reading!

        Greg Ellison

      • 9.1.11
        Judy says:

        No amount of reading is going to fix the clarity of those photo's.

      • 9.1.12
        Greg Ellison says:

        Judy,

        J.Z. Jackson's eye affection can be clearly seen in all versions of the photo which is simply more confimation.

        Armand DeGregoris first had Gilmer "confirmed" to be in the back row. He quicky gave up that confimation when shown rebuttal proof. He hasn't spoken on this issue in weeks now.

        Glynda Aulston Campbell then says that Gilmer is on the front row and all of you jump on it like a june bug on cow crap!

        Glynda Aulston Campbell is far from an expert on anything, especially genealogy and photo identifications.

        What is next with you?

        Greg Ellison

      • 9.1.13
        John Smith says:

        Judy,
        Why is it that Greg Ellison and Betty Duke remind me of Bud Abbott and Lou Costello?

        Answer: Slapstick comedy at its best.

      • 9.1.14
        Greg Ellison says:

        John Smith,

        A man like yourself must answer his own questions because you make no sense to anyone! Just more proof of your immaturity.

        Greg Ellison

  10. 10
    Peter Hubbard says:

    Greg Ellison,

    There is a business end to collecting old images and before I’m willing to part with my dead presidents I want hard facts that provide provenance.

    Let’s imagine for a moment you were selling this group photo and I was initially interested. Your first statement to me would begin by stating that it’s from the mid 1870’s to around 1880 and features Jesse James, Frank James and Annie James along with Zerelda Samuel.

    My response would begin with asking what kind of proof you had that Jesse was in the photo? Your ultimate answer is you can’t prove that and in your opinion it looks like Jesse. That proves absolutely nothing. At that point I’d normally hand back the photo, thank you and be on my way.

    However, you said Frank and Annie are in this photo. I’d ask you what kind of provenance you had for that and you’d answer that they look like Frank and Annie. They don’t to me. Your opinion proves absolutely nothing.

    However, Zerelda is in the photo and you stated approximately when you believe the image dates to. I’d ask you to specifically state and itemize what in the photo supports your dating and provide footnoted references for your sources. But you can’t because you don’t have any.

    This is why provenance is so important and why it can take years, not days or weeks to build. Honestly, you need to have a binder several inches thick with sources and footnotes before making the public claims you’ve made here.

    • 10.1
      Greg Ellison says:

      Peter,

      Since you seem to be living in a fairytail the first thing I would ask you is "What is your real name?" if I were doing business with you.

      I have collected images for twenty years and have yet to see while researching or on the internet anyone ever present a "binder several inches thick with sources and footnotes" as you and your group always claim one needs to identify a photo. The closeest I've seen to that is the Eastman House papers on the Kaplan daguerreotype that nobody believes is Lincoln even after their "binder several inches thick with sources and footnotes" was published.

      Greg Ellison

      With true provenance you need none of that. Here is the provenance for the photo:

      The Ebay picture's provenance is excellent. St. Joseph, Missourian Lee Starnes (now deceased) obtained it from Arch Nicholson (Frank and Jesse James' nephew), and when Mr. Starnes died his sister inherited it. After her death the Lee Starnes collection was put it up for auction and Illinoisan Cathi Basler won it and then put it up for auction on Ebay. Then through a stroke of good fortune, Betty Dorsett Duke won LOT 23 of the collection which included the James family photo.

      The Centennial Issue of The Nevada Herald 1855—100 Years of Progress in Vernon County—1955
      Sunday, July 3, 1955 carried this headline: Did Jesse James Really Die in St. Joseph?
      Death Questioned by Lee Starnes, Historian;
      (Editor’s Note — Lee Starnes of St. Joseph, Mo. Has prepared this material upon the request of The Herald for use in this Centennial Issue, Mr. Starnes is a historian and an authority of the James story. The pictures accompanying this story were submitted by Mr. Starnes from his own collection and those secured by him for use in this issue from the St. Joseph Museum. We feel that this is one of the greatest stories in our issue and will be of prime interest to our readers now and in years to come. It is exclusive– the first time ever published. The captions for the various pictures were written by Mr. Starnes and we are publishing them as he wrote them so not to detract from the theme of his story.)

  11. 11
    Peter Hubbard says:

    Who identified the people in the image?

    You still have only your opinion and no provenance.

    Give me proof that Jesse is in the photo.

    Give me proof that Frank and Annie are in this picture.

    Give me proof with footnotes and sources about how you dated this image.

    You can't provide facts on any of these because all you've got is your opinion. You should really spend more time in the real world.

    • 11.1
      Thomas Jones says:

      Ms. Duke has no facts to support her family story, and must rely upon the very questionable identification of individuals in photographs to bolster her family story that James L. Courtney was Jesse James.

      Her critics rely upon the words of James L. Courtney himself in his diary and correspondence, and other documents, to reveal the fallacy of her claim.

      These are a few of the inconsistencies of Ms. Duke’s theory.

      James L. Courtney wrote in his diary that it should be returned to his uncle, E. L. Andruss if lost; JLC corresponded with his Andruss first cousins, made inquiries about other Andruss first cousins, aunts, and uncles, received an Easter card from his mother 2 years after Zerelda’s death, visited his 96 year old mother (Zerelda died at age 86), made application for and received a $6.00 monthly pension for service in the Union Army, (although he had 13 five gallon buckets of gold coins according to Ms. Duke – http://genforum.genealogy.com/cgi-bin/pageload.cgi?die,poor::james::43878.html) JLC described treatment in the Union Army which resulted in his desertion, wrote a touching memorial to his father, Andrew J. Haun upon his death in 1882, which included details of Andrew’s birth date, birth place, dates of relocation to Missouri, Kansas, and details of his funeral; JL, of Troy, TX, (where J. L. Courtney lived for over 50 years) and T. N. Haun, of Parkersville, KS, were identified as surviving brothers in the obituary of Robert W. Haun, of Pawnee, OK.

      There is also scientific evidence which disputes her claim. The mtDNA results of Susan’s descendants and the sample from the grave of Jesse James matched. The Y chromosome DNA results of descendants of T. N. Haun and his brother, James L. Courtney, indicated a close relationship

      There is no coherent, logical explanation of how her great-grandfather could have visited Zerelda 5 years after Zerelda died. No wonder Ms. Duke loves those pictures.

      • 11.1.1
        Greg Ellison says:

        It is apparent that Tom Jones has never read Betty Dorsett Duke's books on the subject of Jesse James, and is blind to the truth as well, as he distort's every thing he presents to make it fit his agenda. If he had a better understanding of the facts his comments might be worth commenting on! As it is, his comments do not merit time spent to answer them.

        Greg Ellison

      • 11.1.2
        John Smith says:

        Thomas,

        The facts listed demolish Ms. Duke's story. Mr. Ellison has no far fetched or improbable explanation. Neither does Ms. Duke. Mr. Ellison retreats into the outhouse by saying the facts are not worth of a comment. Poor Mr. Ellison.

        Those of us who have wasted our money buying Ms. Duke's two books highly recommend them for door stops.

    • 11.2
      Greg Ellison says:

      Mr. Hubbard,

      I would ask you to provide a "binder several inches thick with sources and footnotes" for any traditionaly accepted Jesse James image. How about the Doc Holliday – Prescott Arizona image or any old west image for that matter.

      Your demand simply does not exist in any photograhic research as you want people to believe it does.

      Greg Ellison

  12. 12
    Greg Ellison says:

    Mr. Hubbard,

    Please refer to my past responce to you. It was very clear!

    Greg Ellison

    • 12.1
      Thomas Jones says:

      Your response is very clear. There is no credible provenance.

      • 12.1.1
        Greg Ellison says:

        Thomas,

        Can you read?

        Greg Ellison

      • 12.1.2
        Peter Hubbard says:

        I agree with your statement "There is no credible provenance."

        I also agree with Sally Goodson's comment, "Makes no sense."

        What Greg Ellison can't comprehend is that unless there's provenance it "Makes no sense."

      • 12.1.3
        Greg Ellison says:

        Mr Hubbard,

        What I can't understand is your constant refusal to see provenance when it is present to you as I did earlier! Do you think that looks good for you?

        Greg Ellison

  13. 13
    Sally Goodson says:

    If the original owner, Lee Starnes had thought it was really Jesse and Frank James in the picture, why didn't he share his find with others? If I remember correctly that was not the only Starnes photo sold on ebay. None of the "Jesse James" pictures resembled one another. And, again, if Lee Starnes had believe any of his collection to be the real Jesse and Frank James, why would he sit on them forever? Makes no sense.

    • 13.1
      Greg Ellison says:

      Sally,

      Mr. Starnes died and his research ended up with his sister in Illinois for over forty years. The low quality postcard image of this photo proves that it was identified as Jesse and Frank James while Lee Starnes was alive. You have promoted the owner of the postcard on your site. I thank him for proving that point.

      Greg Ellison

    • 13.2
      Fran Bolton says:

      If Lee Starnes had thought/found/discovered it was really Jesse and Frank James in the picture, he would not have typed on the borders "Believed to be", and "Supposed to be".

      Fran Bolton

  14. 14
    Peter Hubbard says:

    Greg Ellison-

    Kindly address these simple inquires directly and each one specifically;

    Give me proof that Jesse is in the photo.

    Give me proof that Frank and Annie are in this picture.

    Give me proof with footnotes and sources about how you dated this image.

    • 14.1
      Greg Ellison says:

      Mr. Hubbard,

      Please refer to the article in the April 2011 issue of Wild West Magazine, America's BEST SELLING Western History Magazine.

      If I were to provide you with "a binder several inches thick with sources and footnotes" you would still badger us to no end as you have for years.

      Where is your article in Wild West Magazine?

      Greg Ellison

      • 14.1.1
        Peter Hubbard says:

        "I invite you to look at the letters to the editor in this month's issue of WILD WEST and PLEASE send your comments about Duke's statements to the editor of that publication. It's the old Hitlerian "Big Lie". You say it long enough and loud enough and someone is sure to start believing, maybe a lot of people."

        Noted James-Younger author Ted Yeatman (1951-2009) April, 2001

      • 14.1.2
        Greg Ellison says:

        Peter Hubbard,

        Ted is now dead but he left us some wonderful clues to the true story of Jesse James. After reseaching the James story for over twenty five years Ted Yeatman came to the conclusion that he could not prove any of the James story with factual evidence and therefore wrote his book "Frank and Jesse James, The Story Behind The Legend" as a narrative.

        I now quote from the preface of Ted Yeatman's book:

        "I have decided to write this as a narrative, telling what I believe probably occurred based on a variety of sources."

        Ted Yeatman new the traditional story could not be verified and even he relied on sensationalized newspaper accounts to develope his idea of "what occured."

        Greg Ellison

  15. 15
    Peter Hubbard says:

    Ted's ideas about as you said "the true story of Jesse James" included his thoughts about Duke's work;

    "It's the old Hitlerian "Big Lie". You say it long enough and loud enough and someone is sure to start believing, maybe a lot of people."

    • 15.1
      Greg Ellison says:

      Peter Hubbard,

      Why do you feel the need to repeat Ted Yeatman's "Hitlerian" comment given to wake of a U. S. Senator that was recently shot and the death threats that you are well aware of that have been made towards Betty Duke and myself? Talk about unAmerican, you are!

      Ted Yeatman was a sore loser and went to his grave that way! Ted Yeatman realized that "the true story of Jesse James" was nothing he could prove, just as I stated.

      BTW, The photo in question was viewed by The Jesse James Preservation Trust who represents the Jesse James Family and was confirmed to be Jesse James.

      Greg Ellison

      • 15.1.1
        John Smith says:

        Your words: "Why do you feel the need to repeat Ted Yeatman's "Hitlerian" comment given to wake of a U. S. Senator that was recently shot "

        Translation, please. "to wake"?

        The news recently has been about the senseless shooting and attempted murder of Gabrielle Giffords, the U. S. Congressman from Tucson, AZ. Jon Kyl and John McCain are the Senators from AZ. Is your ability to identify individuals in old photographs more accurate than your knowledge of recent events?

      • 15.1.2
        Greg Ellison says:

        "John Smith"

        Can't we get anyone on here that isn't afraid to use their real names so they can be held accountable for their mistakes as I am? I made a mistake by refering to her a a Senator instead of a Congressman and I am fully willing to admit that. However, what I find interesting is that you completely neglect the point of my statement and only wish to pick at typos and avoid the real converstion.

        Typical of our detractors! Hiding behind fake names and avoiding the issues!

        Greg Ellison

      • 15.1.3
        John Smith says:

        "BTW, The photo in question was viewed by The Jesse James Preservation Trust who represents the Jesse James Family and was confirmed to be Jesse James."

        As Mr. Graf correctly points out it comment #24, below, Mr. Ellison, who excels in obfuscation, is proclaiming that the photo in question was viewed and confirmed by The Jesse James Preservation Trust. BIG DEAL. That sounds sooo official, and it serves to conceal the fact that Mr. Ellison himself is verifying his own opinion under an impressive title. CAVEAT EMPTOR!!!!

      • 15.1.4
        Greg Ellison says:

        Mel Graf says:
        2/15/2011 at 4:18 pm

        In reference to post 15.1, The "Jesse James Preservation Trust" is not to be confused with the "James Preservation Trust." The "Jesse James Preservation Trust" is a creation of Greg Ellison as you can see as you scroll down this page:

        http://theellisoncollection.com/pri.php?gal=cs5vrxc4&gid=108

        I absolutely agree, Melvin Graf! I love the link!

        Greg Ellison

    • 15.2
      Betty Dorsett Duke says:

      The following excerpt from my latest book was written before Ted Yeatman's death:

      "Ted Yeatman of Tennessee, author of Frank And Jesse James, The Story Behind The Legend, vehemently denies that my great-grandfather may have been Jesse James. He said in his book, “Duke’s book makes reference to James and Bill Wilkerson, associated with Courtney, as “known” members of the James gang. In all of my years of research I have never encountered these names in connection with the gang – Ted P. Yeatman.”

      In his rush to discredit me Mr. Yeatman “shot himself in the foot.” He dedicated his book to Dr. William Settle, Jr., author of Jesse James Was His Name. Mr. Yeatman probably just overlooked the fact that Dr. Settle clearly states in his book that Bill Wilkerson was accused of taking part in the James Gang’s robbery of the Clay County Savings Bank in Liberty, Missouri on February 13, 1866. James Wilkerson was also a suspect and had ridden with Quantrill. To make matters worse, many other sources also wrote that both Bill and James Wilkerson rode with Jesse James, but I’ll only cite two:

      1. The Kansas City Daily Journal of Commerce wrote: “February 13, 1866, Liberty, Missouri: When James Love published the bank’s offer of a $5,000 reward, he blamed the robbery on a band of ‘bushwhackers, who reside chiefly in Clay County, and have their rendezvous on or near the Missouri River, above Sibley in Jackson County. At least nine men were named in succeeding days by witnesses to the robbery and pursuit: Ol’ Shepard, Bud and Donnie Pence, Jim and Bill Wilkerson, Frank Gregg, Joab Perry, and Redman Munkers (though Munkers soon provided an alibi, supported by five witnesses). These men were the surviving core of Bill Anderson’s terrorist gang, who had followed Pool, Clement, and Jim Anderson back from Texas in early 1865. Rumors and hard evidence would soon point to Anderson and particularly Clement as the leaders of the raid;” and
      2. The Liberty (Missouri) Tribune wrote: “James Wilkerson rode with Quantrell (Also spelled Quantrill); was credited as a member at Clay County Savings Association robbery, Liberty, Mo.; and was taken to St. Joseph, Mo. to identify Jesse’s (Jesse James) body.”

      With so much evidence pointing to the fact that my great-grandfather was Jesse James the odds are that the Bill Wilkerson he mentioned in his diary was the one who rode with Jesse James. Bill Wilkerson was obviously close to my great-grandfather or he wouldn’t have been sitting with the family at Thomas Hudson Barron’s death bed in 1874."

  16. 16
    Carol says:

    For the record, I researched the genealogy for Betty Duke some years back and I found no links to JLC and the Jesse James of Clay County Mo. However, JLC does have connections to the James family though other lines. I never understood how Mrs. Duke could make such a claim because if JLC died there is no grave site for him except in Blevins, Texas and if Jesse Became JLC why were his (Jesse's aka JLC) parents Stephen and Dinah Courtney. Now they say the ebay photo was taken at Blevins, Texas and that it was Frank and Annie's wedding. Dallas compaired the porches in Mrs. Dukes Blevins house photo to the ebay photo and they happened to appear to be the same house. Now what this whole story boils down to involves Mrs. Dukes latest researcher Lara Way. Mrs. Way
    believes James L Courtney was the real Jesse James. She also believes that he may have encouraged a relationship between
    Betty's father side of the family (Dorsett) and her mother's side of the family (Burt). Betty's Great great great great grandmother was Phoebe Liggett and she was the sister of John Liggett, father of Marshall James Walker Liggett. Phoebe's sister Elizabeth "Betsey" Liggett married Ira Boone. Ira Boone's sister Harriet was mother of the Scholl boys. Another sister Judith married Freeman Hulse, father of William Hulse. There are many other connections. At some point before Laura Way was ask to help Mrs. Duke she did not think that James L Courtney was Jesse. But the more Mrs. Way said she looked into it…… she knew that he was. Mrs. Way also I believes that YDNA is the only way to prove once and for all who Jesse James was.

    She believes that the YDNA of James L Courtney and any proven male descendants (if there are any) of J. Frank Dalton will be the same.
    Why?…….because Mrs. Way thinks that the man who died as James L Courtney…..his biological father and J. Frank Dalton's father were brothers.

    So here you have the story of JLC whose family believed was Jesse James and then you have the imposter J Frank Dalton drawn into the James L Courtney story.
    J Frank Dalton visited by JL Courtney's daughter when he. It stands to reason that Dalton knew James L Courtney well. Dalton knew Garland Farmer from Durango, Texas who ran the Henderson, News and wrote many articles for the Henderson, Times.
    Wild West has already proven J Frank Dalton to be an imposter. And now J Frank Dalton emerges again as the biological father of J Frank Dalton and the father of JLC were brothers.
    The photo could not have been taken in 1875 as that was the year of the Pinkerton Bomb.
    As I have said, there are many links of the Courtney family to Mo. but that photo is not JLC aka Jesse James. It's a matter of stolen genealogy that will work itself out in the end.

    • 16.1
      Greg Ellison says:

      Carol Holmes,

      Your statement is really hard to believe given the many, many times you have posted on multiple forums your belief that Betty Duke is right and you helped her prove it. Your work is published in Betty's book. Are you saying that your research changes daily depending on your whim and who's side you are on at the time? That is not true research and you should be ashamed to come here and admit that!

      Greg Ellison

      • 16.1.1
        Carol says:

        What was published in Ms. Dukes book was already done by Terry James. It is not my original work. None of what I wrote for her book is my original work. It was all data she already had. I can't take credit for anything I did for her or that book. It's a part of my life that was a mistake.

      • 16.1.2
        Betty Dorsett Duke says:

        Greg,

        Carol claims that she feels like she wasted her time helping me, but she is just saying that to "save face". If she really believes she did then why is she still wasting time by on it??? LOL

        This entire situation with my detractors makes me laugh – they think they are doing me great harm but everyone is on to them thanks to the Ebay picture – "The Perfect Picture".

        Betty

  17. 17
    Carol says:

    Dear Mr. Greg

    What we have here is a failure to communicate. Seems someone is keeping their pipes shut about the JLC JF Dalton connection for now, Are you telling me that Laura Way's research is off course? Laura Way and Dallas, same person perhaps? I didn't help Betty prove anything that she didn't already know. And if I had it to do all over again I would have never wasted my time on it. I think the true research will boil down to poor research on both your part and Betty's when the truth about the people in the photo surface. Then what? Mrs. Duke already has a back up plan that someone told her that JLC is not in that grave. But then again, isn't that the case of all Jesse James Imposters. Now someone told that there was no body in the grave, which means no DNA and that equals freedom to continue the farce.
    This is just another J Frank Dalton story taking its course. And in the end
    the truth will be known that Jesse James did not live in Falls County, Texas.
    And as for your photo collection. I have yet to see you post any of Betty's JLC photos in your group? Would that because it would blow your collection out of the water? Seems you would be jumping at the chance to post her collection in with yours. I don't see that happening do you? Admit it Gregg, your just along for the ride and the attention it brings your way. Do you believe JLC was Jesse James?

    • 17.1
      Greg Ellison says:

      Carol Holmes.

      Have you seen the article this thread is about? If so, it is quite obvious that I am the one that discovered the fact the Jesse James aka James L. Courtney is in the group photo. You have said on other forums that it is Frank and Annie James in the photo. When Betty showed the photo to clothing expert the expert's first words were "It is a wedding photo."

      I am working on a new page for my website about Betty's new find and have always stated that this does not change my collection at all as my collection is prior to 1882.

      Betty Dorsett Duke put old family photos of her great-grandfather to the test by obtaining opinions and written statements of professionals and experts in photographic and forensic analysis comparing them to known photos of Jesse James. Those who claim the photos don't match have yet to do the same.

      Greg Ellison

      Visionics Statement:

      The Visionics Corporation is a leading provider of fingerprinting, identification and information systems for law enforcement. Visionics is also recognized as the leader in Face Recognition Technology.
      In June of 2002, Visionics Corporation was merged with Identix Incorporated. The merged company continues to lead its industry in the area law enforcement and identification technology including facial, fingerprint and biometric identification. The company is particularly known for their Face Recognition Technology which has become so important and prominently featured in the media post September 11, 2001.
      The team from Visionics Corporation (now Identix) examined the photographic evidence in June of 1998 and issued the following findings from their Research & Development offices in Jersey City, NJ:

      Statement of Recognition
      "Dr. Joseph J. Atick and Megan G. Tormey from Visionics Corporation examined the photographs through computerized matching, analytical as well as visual inspection techniques. They concluded with reasonable confidence that the faces in question matched each other and belonged to the same individual."
      - Dr. Joseph J. Atick
      Megan G. Tormey

      William McCann's Opinion:

      William McCann, from the Austin, Texas Police Department Forensic Science Laboratory, has examined my family photographs in comparison to the historically accepted Jesse James family photographs and has issued the following statement of recognition:

      Statement of Recognition

      "After visually inspecting both sets of photographs (Dukes and historically accepted photos of the James family), the Austin Police Department Forensic Science Multi-Media Lab determined, with a high degree of certainty, that the faces in question match."

      - William S. McCann

      Forensic Science Multi-Media Lab Supervisor

      Austin Police Department (1999)

      • 17.1.1
        Peter Hubbard says:

        "The history of the race, and each individual's experience, are thick with the evidence that the truth is not hard to kill, and a lie well told is immortal." – Mark Twain.

        Give me proof that Jesse is in the photo.

        Give me proof that Frank and Annie are in this picture.

        Give me proof with footnotes and sources about how you dated this image.

        Reply

      • 17.1.2
        Carol says:

        Don't you think it's time that Mrs. Duke admits the photo on the front of her first book is Travis Barron? If the ebay photo proves her case then why does she have to present a Barron family member off as Jesse James? The photo her experts said matched the known photos of Jesse James was Travis Barron. This does not make for accurte research in my opinion. I believe you didn't answer my question, "Do you believe James Courtney is the real Jesse James" and if so, other than photographs what leads you to believe he is indeed Jesse James?
        Do you believe the Travis Barron photo is Jesse James?

      • 17.1.3
        Greg Ellison says:

        Peter Hubbard,

        Even Carol Holmes says it is Frank and Annie in the photo and she is on your team!

        Armand DeGregoris has photos in his collection that match Frank and Annie in the new group photo perfectly. I have copies of them he sent me years ago that I may produce if he doesn't come out with them. He knows the truth.

        The wedding party sitting in front is clearly the focus of the image. Frank James, Annie James and Jesse James. The lady behind Jesse is identified in writing on the back of the photo by Arch Nicholson as being Mrs. Jesse James. Arch Nicholson is the nephew of Jesse James and was born in 1879. See Arch Nicholson's chart below. His grandfather was also a Courtney making an easy segway for Jesse James.

        Betty Duke's Great-Granfather's photos match Jesse James in the group photo. The good people of Wild West Magazine saw this and that is why it is featured in their magazine. So I ask, Why can't you see it?

        Greg Ellison

        Arch Nicholson's father was William A. Nicholson and his mother was Sarah Louisa Samuel (Jesse and Frank's half-sister).

        William A. Nicholson's parents were:

        Father: James Courtney Nicholson b: 17 Jan 1831 in Gerrard, Kentucky, United States
        Mother: Mary Eliza Brockman b: 1 Dec 1833 in Garrard, Kentucky, United States

        William A. Nicholson married first:

        Marriage 1 Mary Catherine Tilger b: 19 Nov 1861 in Missouri, United States
        William A. Nicholson married second:

        Marriage 2 Sarah Louisa Samuel b: 26 Dec 1858 in Kearney, Clay, Missouri, USA
        •Married: 28 Nov 1878 in , Clay, Missouri, USA 1
        William A. Nicholson and Sarah Louisa Samuel's children were as follows:

        Children
        1. James or John Archibald "Arch" Nicholson b: 19 Oct 1879 in , Clay, Missouri, USA
        2. Frank Nicholson b: 31 Mar 1882 in , Clay, Missouri, USA
        3. Frederick Brockman Nicholson b: 9 Nov 1891 in Clay, Missouri, United States

      • 17.1.4
        Peter Hubbard says:

        "…I am the one that discovered the fact the Jesse James aka James L. Courtney is in the group photo."

        ROFLMAO!!!

      • 17.1.5
        Greg Ellison says:

        Peter Hubbard,

        I don't know what your gibberish means but that identification in here to stay and will never be overturned so get use to it.

        The people on the front row will now and forever be known as Frank, Annie and Jesse James bacause that is who they are! I'll bet you on that one!

        Greg Ellison

      • 17.1.6
        Carol says:

        You say you discovered the fact that JLC was in the ebay photo. Tell me something. Didn't you say you had Armand's copy of that photo and if so, why did it take the ebay photo for you to come forward with that information? Betty could have learned of this how long ago?

      • 17.1.7
        Carol says:

        One thing you might want to check into on this ebay find is to research the home of Frank James in Fletcher Okla. There is a photo of Frank James standing by the end of the house and Robert is on the porch and Annie is sitting on the porch petting a dog that looks like the dog in the ebay photo. Not to mention Annie looks like the woman sitting on the ground in the ebay photo. Check the side of the house and look at the window.
        But that is beyond the goal you want to achieve to research a little further.

      • 17.1.8
    • 17.2
      Betty Dorsett Duke says:

      Carol Holmes for a long time you believed that J. Frank Dalton was Jesse James, and then you believed my great-grandfather was Jesse James and you only changed your mind about him because you became angry that I caught you using the alias of Linda Snyder. Why don't you tell us what made you not believe the story you are now so devoted to?

      Charlie Barr told me recently that Clay County is not in the position to discount anyone's claims. We all know that Prof. Starrs' DNA results are a joke so you need to include the traditional story you are now siding with in that impostor theory. Beth Beckett told me the same day that the man pictured in the tintype on my website looks like the man identified as Jesse James in the Ebay picture and no matter how hard you try to convince others the man in the tintype isn't my great-grandfather it is him.

      Admit it Carol, you know that the man identified as Jesse James in the Ebay photo is my great-grandfather. You and your buddies are just trying to divert attention away from the matter at hand – the Ebay picture proves my family story is true.

      What makes the Ebay picture so special, besides the fact that my great-grandfather is pictured in it, is that Arch Nicholson identified Jesse James and "Mrs. Jesse James", who is none other than Mary Ellen Barron, my great-grandmother. As you know Arch is the historically accepted nephew of Frank and Jesse James – he was the son of William A. Nicholson and Sarah Louisa Samuel, Jesse and Frank's half-sister. Zerelda being pictured in there just sweetens the deal.

      James faked his 1882 death and lived on as James L. Courtney in Blevins, Texas. It is my hope all of you will stop this nonsense and enjoy this new historical find.

      • 17.2.1
        Carol says:

        No, Ms. Duke. You wanted me to believe JLC was Jesse James. Just like you want Dallas and Greg to buy into your story. I see Lou as become a detractor as well. I wondered how long Lou would last with her 40 something years of research on J Frank Dalton. Did you use the Dalton story to creat your story because there are alot of similarities in the two stories.
        This is not a new historical find and one can't share the enjoyment you are getting from all of this. That ebay photo didn't even have time to get could before you went riding on your horse broom in the front yard yelling "Jesse James is my Grandpa."
        I'm sure Linda Snyder will get a kick out of your illusional fantasy that I am her. If you can't figure out the difference between the two of us how can you determine JLC is in the ebay photo. Geeeeeze!!!
        The man in the ebay photo is not your Great grandfather. And if you have a million dollars to back that up your on.
        So, did your JLC ever talk to the Nicholson family? How do you explain the Pinkerton Bombing? How did Dinah lose her hand? I have a photo of Frank James that matches the one you say is Jesse James in the ebay photo. Yes indeed. Arch is the accepted nephew of Frank and Jesse James but he is of no kin to JLC and JLC is not Jesse James. Tell us all the story of JLC's involvement with the 1882 fake death of Jesse James. How he plotted the killing out and how he carried it on from his home in Blevins, Texas. Who did he work with on the deal? Did he work with Crittenden? Timberlake? Then tell us about JLC being JJ in Texas and when Zerelda died on the train if JLC attended his mothers funeral. You know the same Zerelda that you now claim is the mother of JLC in the ebay photo. Tomato~Potato. No difference.

    • 17.3
      Fran Bolton says:

      17.1.2Carol says:
      2/14/2011 at 3:10 pm
      "Don't you think it's time that Mrs. Duke admits the photo on the front of her first book is Travis Barron? "

      YES!
      Lois Ross explains that photo:
      "I have a letter from a niece of Travis Barron, dated April 12, 1977, in which she says: "I have a picture of Uncle Travis and will enclose in this letter." She did enclose the picture, and I made a photocopy of the original. When Betty Duke visited me in 1996, I gave her a copy and identified same as TRAVIS BARRON. Betty used this copy on the cover of her book, and the same picture was used in the 1997 story by Betty in the 1997 issue of Texas Monthly."
      http://genforum.com/cgi-bin/pageload.cgi?lois::courtney::815.html

      Fran Bolton

      • 17.3.1
        Fran Bolton says:

        I read a comment here I want to question:
        "The wedding party sitting in front is clearly the focus of the image. Frank James, Annie James and Jesse James."

        Question: Would the focus of the image be seated ON THE GROUND, while the other 12 are not?

        Another observation: weddings were not the only occasions where corsages were worn. They were used to identify people in specific groups at large gatherings, and they were worn as a deodorant device in warm weather, called 'Nosegays".

        And another: Frank and Annie eloped by all historically accepted accounts, why would there be a wedding party with the groom's mother and a photographer?

        Fran Bolton

      • Don Jackson says:

        The simple answer is History is full of historically accepted facts that are wrong. Almost every character and event have several versions. It is plain that the smoke screen gang have a vested interest in subverting any other theories other than there own. They are under the same obligations that they demand of others. Offer proof other than the worn out HISTORICALLY ACCEPTED FACTS THAT ONLY THEY ACCEPT.

      • Chuck Rabas says:

        It's true that one often finds gaps in the lives of historic personages. There can be varied accounts of what occurred. When evaluating those accounts, one looks at similarities and differences (i.e., accounts of sources A, B, C & D are similar, although some details may vary, while sources E & F are completly at odds with the others.) One must then look at the credibility of each of those sources, and make a judgement as to which is/are most likely to be the most reliable. This is the route through which "historically accepted facts" regarding scenarios for which solid documentation is not available are usually determined. It is the reason "reportedly", "believed", "thought to", "apparently", etc. are so often found in describing some events.

        If someone proposes a scenario that challanges something that is generally accepted, it is up to the challanger to provide ample evidence to back his version. Betty Duke and her followers base their claim on wild speculation and wishful thinking. They either ignore or deny the massive amount of solid documentation that destroys their claim.

      • Fran Bolton says:

        25.2.1Rollie Taylor says:
        2/16/2011 at 4:36 pm

        "Meanwhile, Ms. Duke has the audacity to claim that Travis Barron was Jesse James, ignoring his correct identity provided by the Barron family."

        Question: If the photo of Travis Barron was the one submitted and identified by facial recognition expert techniques and said to match historically accepted photos of Jesse James, would this not indicate that TRAVIS BARRON, brother-in-law of her grgrandfather James L Courtney, was actually Jesse James??

        Question: Has anyone ever claimed Travis Barron was Jesse James? After all, he was proven to match photos of JJ by facial identification experts, so why did his family not see that?

        Fran Bolton

      • Frank says:

        Don,

        Could you point out which facts are wrong?

        http://www.thomaskinkadechico.com/oldsite/notes.htm

        http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~jessejames/jamescourtney.html

        http://www.thomaskinkadechico.com/oldsite/Thomas%20Hudson%20Barron.htm

        http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~jessejames/barron.html

        http://www.andruss.net/courtney.htm

        http://www.ericjames.org/JesseJamesinTexas/index.html

        http://www.thomaskinkadechico.com/oldsite/budtrip.htm

        http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GSln=courtney&GSfn=james&GSmn=l+&GSbyrel=in&GSdyrel=in&GSob=n&GRid=23319153&df=all&amp;

        http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~jessejames/jlcdc.jpg

        http://www.thomaskinkadechico.com/oldsite/jlcdiary.htm

        If so, could you please show me some proof that Jesse James lived beyond 1882? Could you get Eldon Courtney to submit a dna and/or blood test and compare it to the James' living relatives?

        When you do, when will you be going to the Missouri Court and the Supreme to prove your case? Keep in mind, Mrs. Duke had already got defeated and kicked out of court for lying and altering photos.

        This quote is from the Courtney family website – “On September 17, 1999, in a Falls? County, Texas courtroom, a judge decided not to allow the exhumation of James L. Courtney's body for DNA testing after a forensic scientist proved that the picture of Dianna Courtney-Haun in Mrs. Duke's book had been altered.”

        What does that tell you? You're fooling no one. ;-)

      • Peter Hubbard says:

        Don,

        Please address these simple inquires directly and each one specifically;

        Give me proof that Jesse is in the photo.

        Give me proof that Frank and Annie are in this picture.

        Give me proof with footnotes and sources about how you dated this image

      • Don Jackson says:

        Case in point I say he his. I have an original photo of the Courtney home and its the same house. My family recognizes J.Z. Jackson and other Law enforcement officers say that the match will hold up in a court of law. That all you get understand.

      • Frank says:

        What you say doesn't hold up to the facts, Don. Care to actually prove your claims? This case was already thrown out of court for lies and altering photos. What chances do you think this case will have again?

        Take Eldon Courtney by the hand and go get that dna test done already. What are you so afraid of?

      • Greg Ellison says:

        I HAVE NO INTENTION OF RESPONDING TO ANY POST MADE BY **"FRANK"** WHO I BELIEVE IS THE PERSON THAT HAS HARASSED AND THREATENED MY FAMILY AND I IN THE PAST!

        HE CHANGES INFORMATION TO SUITE HIS AGENDA AND CONSISTANLY TAKES COMMENTS OUT OF CONTEXT TO FIT HIS AGENDA. YOU CAN EASILY SEE HIS INFACTUATION WITH ME IN HIS POSTINGS. BELOW ARE SOME EXAMPLES OF HIS DECEIT:

        *417 Magazine never said my images weren't who I identified them as being. They were bombarded with emails from the individuals that you now see here doing the exact same thing so they felt the need to make a comment on that. In the very next issue they apologized to me for their mistake and said that they had mistakingly switched the captions under the images and that it was their fault for the confusion.

        *The curator of The Abraham Lincoln Presidential Library who I visited personally did not say the photo was "not worthy of consideration." He told me it was worthy of consideration but they had no authority to do so as they rely on outside experts for those opinons as all government owned museums do just like the James Farm Museum must. The photographer of the photograph was a woman. Her husband ran the photo studio with his two sons pre-Civil War and when they left to go to war they left it to the mother to run. Frank and others have never admitted to this information because it blows their accusations out of the water. Frank doesn't know what he is talking about and can't prove he does.

        *Laura James has never addressed the issue of the photo after she made that comment because she knows she told a fib. She had the cover of her book with my photo of Jesse James Jr. posted on her website for a week before she made the statement that her publisher had done this without her knowledge. She even said that she "LOVES THE COVER." I do not blame Laura for caving to pressure from the detractors as they are a ruthless bunch that will harass you until they get their way. They use mafia style tactics and a lot of bullying is involved.

      • Frank says:

        "I HAVE NO INTENTION OF RESPONDING TO ANY POST MADE BY **"FRANK"** WHO I BELIEVE IS THE PERSON THAT HAS HARASSED AND THREATENED MY FAMILY AND I IN THE PAST! "

        Yet you just responded to me. You can't help yourself! You can believe what you want to. The harassment and threats are from you, not anyone else.

        "HE CHANGES INFORMATION TO SUITE HIS AGENDA AND CONSISTANLY TAKES COMMENTS OUT OF CONTEXT TO FIT HIS AGENDA. YOU CAN EASILY SEE HIS INFACTUATION WITH ME IN HIS POSTINGS. BELOW ARE SOME EXAMPLES OF HIS DECEIT:"

        Says the person changing information to suit your agenda/scam. Now, point to where I took comments out of context. You aren't going to get away with deceiving the public with a hoax and fake images. Take it out on who you want to. It just isn't going to happen.

        "*417 Magazine never said my images weren't who I identified them as being. They were bombarded with emails from the individuals that you now see here doing the exact same thing so they felt the need to make a comment on that. In the very next issue they apologized to me for their mistake and said that they had mistakingly switched the captions under the images and that it was their fault for the confusion. "

        417 Magazine was made aware of your scam. After investigating they found you guilty and exposed you. It's all right there. Just ask them.

        "*The curator of The Abraham Lincoln Presidential Library who I visited personally did not say the photo was "not worthy of consideration." He told me it was worthy of consideration but they had no authority to do so as they rely on outside experts for those opinons as all government owned museums do just like the James Farm Museum must. The photographer of the photograph was a woman. Her husband ran the photo studio with his two sons pre-Civil War and when they left to go to war they left it to the mother to run. Frank and others have never admitted to this information because it blows their accusations out of the water. Frank doesn't know what he is talking about and can't prove he does. "

        You didn't visit them personally nor did you discuss anything of the kind. They declined your bogus image and wanted nothing to do with you or your misidentified image collection. Your image didn't match and upon further research disproved your claim. After all, it isn't accepted at The Abraham Lincoln Presidential Library. That speaks for itself.

        "*Laura James has never addressed the issue of the photo after she made that comment because she knows she told a fib. She had the cover of her book with my photo of Jesse James Jr. posted on her website for a week before she made the statement that her publisher had done this without her knowledge. I do not blame Laura for caving to pressure from the detractors as they are a ruthless bunch that will harass you until they get their way. They use mafia style tactics and a lot of bullying is involved."

        She addressed to everyone on the Jesse James Discussion Site that she wanted nothing to do with you or your fake and misidentified photo as it had no documentation nor provenance to prove who you think it was. There was never any association between Laura James and you after she discovered your scam.

        Fraud is a criminal offense. Be warned.

      • Greg Ellison says:

        Mel Graf says:
        2/15/2011 at 4:18 pm

        In reference to post 15.1, The "Jesse James Preservation Trust" is not to be confused with the "James Preservation Trust." The "Jesse James Preservation Trust" is a creation of Greg Ellison as you can see as you scroll down this page:

        http://theellisoncollection.com/pri.php?gal=cs5vrxc4&gid=108

        Thank you Melvin Graf! I love the link!

        Greg Ellison

      • Frank says:

        Ellison is a textbook narcissist.

      • Frank says:

        The FACT is Ellison's supposed "Steele letter" cannot by itself verify any one image, much less 25. Even if there were signed affidavits from Steele's secretary, wife, pastor, and best friend saying they were there when Steele wrote the letter it would not add any provenance or value to it. Without detailed notes, bibliography's, and research points to justify an identification on EACH PHOTO the photos cannot be deemed original by anyone.

        It can take weeks, or months, to identify even one image, much less 25 to 50 in a day or so. And the 25 listed on the website were added to the site many months after the site's creation making it a giant leap of faith in Ellison's word of which images Steele supposedly saw. I am also confused as to how Ellison (who needed an outside source for verification due to his own lack of credentials) would determine which images out of 50 were "important" enough for Steele to look at. As Steele was the expert, I would think you hand him the box and let him decide. But Ellison cherrypicked 25 images. Why?

        In my experience, when any item is researched and verified, the notes and details are made as the process unfolds. That is how a conclusion is reached: Through a preponderance of the evidence as it was laid out. I have never heard of an identification being made, then the notes were taken and added afterwards. That makes no sense at all and flies in the face of logic. Plus, to verify an image of such a historically important American, you would need more than one source to agree it is authentic. This, Ellison does not have.

        Soooooo…..at best Greg has 25 images that (supposedly) were verified and seen by Phillip W. Steele that have no notes to back them up. All of the other "verifications" on the Ellison Collection are solely the creations of Greg Ellison and have no basis at all except in Greg's "opinion."

        Many historians have merely pointed out all the glaring inconsistencies with Ellison's "verifications."

        Opinions are like elbows, everyone has one and some are bent. I don't care WHO has seen an image and given an opinion on it. Unless they have credentials, and are willing to put those credentials on paper with detailed notes, they don't matter. It amazes me that Ellison expects thinking, rational, and educated people to accept his "beliefs" with little or no proof. A generic letter, an unverified "Poor" connection and your opinion. That dog don't hunt. And due to the lack of any positive interest in Ellison's collection by anyone that matters, I would say that represents the majority.

        Ellison's proof, as always, is absent.

      • Greg Ellison says:

        I believe everyone will enjoy this very interesting article concerning a letter written by Jesse James in Texas in 1879. Jesse was laughing then just as he is today:

        http://chroniclingamerica.loc.gov/lccn/sn85034336/1879-12-12/ed-1/seq-1/;words=Shepherd+George

        Greg Ellison

      • 17.3.2
        Frank says:

        I think it's funny that James L. Courtney didn't look enough like her image of Jesse James. It's a shame Travis Barron got drug through her scam.

        http://www.thomaskinkadechico.com/oldsite/Thomas%20Hudson%20Barron.htm

        http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~jessejames/barron.html

        Pathetic!

  18. 18
    Carol says:

    One thing that really bugs me about the JLC story is the fact that Frank James was never mentioned by the author until the ebay photo surfaced. None of the Samuel family were ever mentioned in JLC's diary. JLC never mentions going to Missouri to visit the Samuel Farm. No mention of his mothers arm and how it got blown off. The bombing took place in 1875 but yet JLC was tending his bee hives and selling corn and cotton. So is that to say the 1875 Pinkerton raid on the farm never took place because the family was in Buttermilk, Texas getting their picture made with JLC and Frank James? I have often wonder how JLC pulled off the death hoax in St. Joe, Mo. while he was living in Texas and no where near the scene of the crime. Did JLC plan the 1882 shooting of Tom Howard from his front yard in Blevins, Texas? How does the 1882 death of Jesse James mold into the JLC story? Zerelda Samuel dies on a train after leaving her son Franks home in Fletcher Okla. Did JLC attend the funeral of Zerelda in Mo.? JLC's mother had a missing hand also but her name was Diana Haun Courtney? Reuben Samuel was in an asylum at the time of his death. Was JLC's father Stephen Haun in one too? In order to understand this story you have to omit the traditional story until a photo surfaces and the traditional story gets worked into the imposter's story to get the illusion that JLC was indeed Jesse James in their eyes.

    • 18.1
      John Smith says:

      But Carol, Betty offered strong evidence that James L. Courtney was Jesse James..He supposedly named one horse "Johnny" and another horse "Reb". Do you believe a Yankee bugle blower would do such a thing?

      • 18.1.1
        Carol says:

        And as a rebel I named my cat yankee doodle. The secret's in the porch. Wonder how many times he played Dixie on his bugle?

      • 18.1.2
        Peter Hubbard says:

        "But Carol, Betty offered strong evidence that James L. Courtney was Jesse James..He supposedly named one horse "Johnny" and another horse "Reb".

        Lol!! Now that's funny!

      • 18.1.3
        Betty Dorsett Duke says:

        Peter Hubbard is wrong yet again – he named his horses "John" and Reb".

    • 18.2
      Greg Ellison says:

      John Smith,

      The real James L. Courtney was a Yankee bugler. He disappeared after he changed his name to Haun. That is when Jesse James, the Confederate, took his name and settled down as James L. Courtney. The census proves the name changes.

      You apparently know this but neglected to mention it to further your deception.

      Greg Ellison

      • 18.2.1
        Carol says:

        So why hasn't the real JLC's grave ever been found. Were's the proof that Jesse James took on the id of JLC and moved to Texas and became JLC? There is no proof. Was Jesse a confederate? I thought he was a gorrilla. THe census proves the name change of Haun to Courtney but no where in the census does it say Courtney to James.
        Hashing over the JLC research is like spitting in the wind. It never gets anywhere and it's 100 percent confusing. Even Dale Schrader caught on to Howk's lies and fradulant ways. Seems Dale wanted to back out of writting the Howk book. You can only be hoodwinked so many times.
        Her story is like a sore thumb. It just keeps getting bigger and bigger.
        Quantrill is Bedicheck, Jim Cummins married one of Courtney's daughters, Blood Bill Anderson is burried in Blevins, Cemetery ect, ect.
        It gets to be overwhelming after a while.

      • 18.2.2
        Greg Ellison says:

        Carol Holmes,

        Like I said, he disappeared. How do you find the grave of a man that disappeared?

        The guerillas were Confederates and you will be hard pressed to get anyone to agree with you that they were Yankees! Had to be one or the other!

        Carol, you said: "….but no where in the census does it say Courtney to James."

        Like I said, Jesse James was smarter than you and apparently a person doesn't have to be too smart to be smarter than you!

        The traditional story of Jesse James has far less provable facts than Betty Duke's story. That is a fact! Just ask Ted Yeatman. He tells you there are no provable facts in the traditional story in the preface of his book.

        Greg Ellison

      • 18.2.3
        John Smith says:

        Mr. Ellison,
        I find your half-truths (which are whole lies) to be amusing. Federal census reports reveal that James L. Courtney appeared in every census from 1860 until 1930 under his birth names, with the exception of 1870, when he was enumerated with the family group of Andrew J. Haun, and the 1890 census, which no longer exists.. The Courtney family assumed the surname of Haun shortly after the Civil War. James L. Courtney was never known as James Haun except in the 1870 census of KS; the estate proceedings of his father, Andrew J. Haun, in 1882; the Request for Letters of Administration in 1917 upon the death of his mother, Mrs. D. D. Haun,; and in the obituary of his brother, Robert W. Haun, of Pawnee, OK, where he was identified as one of two surviving brothers, T. N., of Parkersville, KS, and J. L., of Troy, TX (where James L. Courtney resided for over 50 years.

        Mr. Ellison, you are way in over your head discussing the life of James L. Courtney. You can argue images all day long, but you cannot argue facts.

      • 18.2.4
        Greg Ellison says:

        John Smith,

        That has always been the hole in your story and I laugh everytime you post the census with that 1870 void that you can't explain. You have come up with some good excuses for it but fantasy doesn't count like your group thinks it does!

        Greg Ellison

      • 18.2.5
        John Smith says:

        Mr. Ellison,
        I shall explain in the most elementary fashion, in hopes that even you can understand.
        James L. Courtney was not found in the 1870 census in KS.
        In the 1870 census, James Haun was found in the Andrew J.Haun family group, identified in previous census records, and in the 1865 KS state census, as the Stephen Courtney family group.
        Ms. Duke leaps to the conclusion that James L. Courtney changed his name to James Haun "forevermore".
        If true, where is James Haun in the 1880, 1900, 1910, or 1920 census? No one has ever found a James Haun of the correct age and place of birth in any census in any state after 1870. No one has ever found a marriage, death, or cemetery record of James Haun.

        Subsequent census records after 1870 confirm that James L. Courtney's parents and siblings identified by the Haun surname in 1870 retained the Haun surname until their death. James L. Courtney appears in official KS records as James Haun in the 1870 census; in the estate records upon the death of his father, Andrew J. Haun, and in records upon the death of his mother, Mrs. D. D. Haun, in 1917. He also appears as one of the two surviving brothers of Robert W. Haun, of Pawnee, OK, in 1928.

        A rational individual could only conclude that James L. Courtney lived under his birth name for all of his life except for the 4 instances cited above.

        But then, he did name one horse "Johnny", and another horse "Reb". I guess that's enough proof for you and Ms. Duke.

        My adivce: Stick to your day job of guessing who is in old pictures and forget genealogy.

      • 18.2.6
        Greg Ellison says:

        John Smith,

        You said: "A rational individual could only conclude that James L. Courtney lived under his birth name for all of his life except for the 4 instances cited above."

        Except for "4 instances"? A rational person would realize that something was really messed up about that genealogy.

        Given the admitted deceptions by your co-genealogist, Fran Bolton and Glynda Campbell, I do not have any need or want to believe any of your so-called research.

        Greg Ellison

      • 18.2.7
        John Smith says:

        Mr. Ellison,
        In your role as self appointed mouthpiece and defender of the Falls County myth, you have taken full advantage of this forum for argumentative rebuttals to soothe your narcissistic craving for attention. That might be the reason your opinions are no longer welcome on several boards and forums from which you have been banished. I've heard you argued with a 5 foot tall stump in your back yard for two months, even though it failed to respond.

      • 18.2.8
        Carol says:

        But how can that be if the real JLC shows up as James Haun in later census records?

      • 18.2.9
        Heidi S. says:

        Greg,

        How did you come to the conclusion that the man in the Ebay photo is James L. Courtney?

        Heidi

      • 18.2.10
        Greg Ellison says:

        Heidi,

        I compared them!

        BTW, It was very nice meeting you last Tuesday. I had a very good visit with all.

        Greg Ellison

      • 18.2.11
        Jebediah Smith says:

        Question from Heidi;

        "How did you come to the conclusion that the man in the Ebay photo is James L. Courtney?"

        Answer from Ellison;

        "I compared them!"

        Greg Ellison, wake up . You're really not that astute when identifying images. What you need to do is your homework.

        "You still have only your opinion and no provenance.

        Give me proof that Jesse is in the photo.

        Give me proof that Frank and Annie are in this picture.

        Give me proof with footnotes and sources about how you dated this image.

        You can't provide facts on any of these because all you've got is your opinion."

      • 18.2.12
        Greg Ellison says:

        Eric "Jeb" James,

        Really, Phillip W. Steele who was the historian and photo authenticator (as posted on his website) for the James Farm Museum for many years agreed with my conclusions and added a few of his own. He verified his thoughts in a letter that he wrote to me that can be viewed on the homepoage of my website.

        The James Farm and Museum does not recognize Eric James as an expert on Jesse James images or anything else for that matter. They do recoginize Phillip W. Steele and sell his genealogy charts and books in the museum.

        All newly discovered photos are verified by comparison along with other provenace attached to the photo.

        Greg Ellison

      • 18.2.13
        Greg Ellison says:

        Eric "Jeb" James

        Stray leaves is the biggest joke on the internet but I do agree with you on one thing, you sure do have a bunch of "Strays" listed on there:

        http://www.ericjames.org/Contents_for_James_Genealogy.html/

        Could you be so kind to direct us to your "Trust" page that list your officers as you claim you have?

        Talk about some goofy comparisons made by you:

        http://www.ericjames.org/Jesse_James_Look_Alikes.html

        And then there's this. The upturned nose of Eric James compared to Robert Sallee James, the father of Jesse James. Eric James isn't even descended from Robert SalleeJames or from his James family line but somehow he thinks he looks like Robert Sallee James. Purely ridiculous:

        http://www.ericjames.org/Robert_Sallee_James_Look_Alikes.html

        Greg Ellison

      • 18.2.14
        Jebediah Smith says:

        Phillip Steele was a fine historian but imo a retrospective look at his book “The Many Faces of Jesse James” bears witness to his mediocre skills of facial recognition. Your abilities in that field, which are pitiful, amount to nothing more then a bluster of self proclaiming guff and are at best run of the mill. Huge parts of the “Faces” book, indeed most of that work, are now viewed with a jaundiced eye by James-Younger researchers.

        Your comment “All newly discovered photos are verified by comparison along with other provenance attached to the photo.” made me throw up in my mouth a little bit. Your comparisons are devoid of any form of academic discipline and skill while your add on line of “along with other provenance” amounts to nothing more than a hustle.

        “Fat, drunk and stupid is no way to go through life”
        Dean Wermer, "Animal House”

        Good day Mr. Ellison

      • 18.2.15
        Greg Ellison says:

        Eric "Jeb" James

        Your timing could be better. I have posted several links to your website that are awaiting moderation in which you use Phillip W. Steele's verified Jesse James images to compare your James family to. For Phillip W. Steele to have "mediocre skills of facial recognition" you sure are proud to use his work.

        What do they say about hypocrits and liars, they are easily exposed just as you have been by making your two-faced comments!

        You make this to easy! The links to your website will make everyone vomit!

        Greg Ellison

      • 18.2.16
        Greg Ellison says:

        Eric "Jeb" James,

        Open Mouth, Insert Foot! The links to your idiotic comparisons of your unrelated family to Jesse James are up now for all to see!

        Greg Ellison

      • 18.2.17
        Heidi S. says:

        I compared them and came to a different conclusion :)

        Heidi

      • 18.2.18
        John Smith says:

        Mr. Ellison,

        You are correct. James L. Courtney was a Yankee bugle blower, and for his service, he received a $6.00 monthly pension even though in his pension application he described why he had deserted.

        In the 1870 census of KS, he was recorded as James Haun. You rush to judgment by proclaiming that he changed his name, and that he disappeared.

        Please provide proof that he permanently changed his name.

        Please provide proof that the man who lived in Falls County, TX, was Jesse James.

      • 18.2.19
        Greg Ellison says:

        John Smith's own genealogy research proves that James L. Courtney was decieving the census about who he really was. Any good genealogy researcher knows that when that happens none of that person's geneology can be trusted from that day on.

        That is a FACT you can count on!

        Greg Ellison

    • 18.3
      Greg Ellison says:

      Carol Holmes,

      Why would a man that is in hiding give any direct information that would give him away? Your argument is ridiculous.

      He was much smarter than you are. You would have been caught in a second!

      The new group photo answers a lot of questions from the past and will continue to do so as new findings develope from it.

      Greg Ellison

      • 18.3.1
        Carol says:

        Why didn't he come out is the question. Dalton didn't take on the Jesse James name until JLC was dead. Why is that you suppose? Because JLC knew Frank Dalton who worked for Henderson Times and Dalton knew Courtney would rat him out. So Dalton is safe after Courtney dies to make his appearance as the one and only Jesse James. Let's not forget that Dalton was also involved with John James who was a meal ticket of Rev. Highley the flying parson. Dalton used this old John James to make threats to Jesse Edwards family. Sad bunch of characters to say the least. A name to live by is a name to die by and that is exactly what James L Courtney did. He wasn't out to prove to anyone he was Jesse James. Family lore, altering a family diary and a great granddaughter set out to do that for him. The only thing that ebay photo answers is that someone paid a thousand dollars because "It looks like, there for it must be so I must have it because I can make it fit." Just one problem, posting the Travis Barron photo to the collection now draws the word "Coo Coo" to the story. If you and your bunch put a photo of Pluto and Goofy side by side your group would say it's the same dog.
        Again you failed to answer if you believe JLC is the real Jesse James.
        Why?

      • 18.3.2
        Greg Ellison says:

        Carol,

        Again you're up to your old tricks of distorting the truth. You have no evidence that any diary was altered by Betty. Max Courtney did change some words and meanings to try to discredit Betty just like Fran Bolton and Glynda Campbell do in your genealogy club. Fran proved that about herself here on this forum and Glynda admitted to it on another forum.

        Betty got twenty three valuable photos in that lot and many had never been seen before so your jealous rantings about the thousand bucks if foolish at best. The seller said you told her you wish you could have gotten them.

        I never failed to answer if James L. Courtney was Jesse James. I said so in the article. You and your group have a hard time of understanding anything you read. No wonder you are confused all the time.

        Greg Ellison

      • 18.3.3
        Heidi S. says:

        Greg,

        I have no idea who you met last Tuesday, but it certainly wasn't me.

        Heidi

      • 18.3.4
        Chuck Rabas says:

        Heidi,
        RE: posts 18.2.10 & 18.3.3
        His claim to having met you last Tuesday is just anothe example of his lack of credibility. Those familiar with his reputation do not accept anything he says at face value.

      • 18.3.5
        John Smith says:

        Heidi,

        Greg can't correctly identify who he met yesterday, but can identify individuals that lived 100 years ago from a picture. Dingy, dingy, nobody home?

      • 18.3.6
        Greg Ellison says:

        Heidi,

        Last week I met a young girl that said she was "Heidi from the forums." Doesn't it make sense that I would think it was you since you are the only "Heidi from the forums" that I know. This happened during a converstion that several of us were having. It is possible that I mis-heard the name. If so I apologize for that if that is the case.

        I totally agree with your comment about Dallas Hunt being correct about the DNA. It is refreshing to here this from a true professional that knows what they are talking about rather than these idiots using fakes names just to promote their lying agendas.

        Greg Ellison

      • 18.3.7
        John Smith says:

        No need to apologize for your rush to judgment, Mr. Ellison. We know you. You have incorrectly identified Heidi, just as you jumped to the conclusion that Frank, Jesse, and Annie were in the photo of Zerelda and Reuben. No research, no provenance. Just as you jumped to the conclusion that Gabrielle Giffords was a Senator without taking 60 seconds to Google the event.. Just as you jumped to the conclusion that James L. Coujrtney was Jesse. No research, no analysis of facts. Just as you jumped to the conclusion that James L. Courtney disappeared so Jesse could use his name. No doubt you believe James L. Courtney was kidnapped by the aliens that landed in Roswell. Do you have a picture of that kidnapping?

        Good day, Mr. Ellison

      • 18.3.8
        Heidi S. says:

        Great, now there is someone out there impersonating me! I can relate to how Jesse must have felt :)

        Heidi

      • 18.3.9
        Greg Ellison says:

        Heidi,

        That is odd but it is also odd that others feel the need to defend your identity. What is wrong with them? I think they are so use to hiding behind fake names that they figure everyoine is including you.

        Greg Ellison

      • 18.3.10
        Rollie Taylor says:

        Heidi,

        Do mental institutions sometimes prematurely release narcissistic patients with impaired reasoning ability who thrive on illogical arguments that feed their ego?

      • 18.3.11
        Greg Ellison says:

        Rollie Taylor,

        Don't ponder about yourself to much, you have your work cut out for you proving your false stories that you promote!

        Greg Ellison

    • 18.4
      Peter Hubbard says:

      "Her story is like a sore thumb. It just keeps getting bigger and bigger.
      Quantrill is Bedicheck, Jim Cummins married one of Courtney's daughters, Blood Bill Anderson is burried in Blevins, Cemetery ect, ect.
      It gets to be overwhelming after a while."

      I agree 100% !

      • 18.4.1
        Betty Dorsett Duke says:

        You are wrong Peter Hubbard. I never said that Bedichek was Quantrill or that Bill Anderson is buried in Blevins Cemetery. Why do you feel the need to lie about what I said?

    • 18.5
      Betty Dorsett Duke says:

      Again, the Ebay photo answers all of your many questions Carol and you know it.

      • 18.5.1
        Peter Hubbard says:

        Give me proof that Jesse is in the photo.

        Give me proof that Frank and Annie are in this picture.

        Give me proof with footnotes and sources about how you dated this image.

      • 18.5.2
        Frank says:

        How does a misidentified photo of a man with a moustache with zero documentation or provenance prove he was James L. Courtney let alone Jesse James? Jesse had been dead for a good few years when the photo was taken. James L. Courtney never visited the James Farm nor had anything to do with the James Farm. Care to prove otherwise? I didn't think so.

        Irving Gilmer wasn't Jesse James or your great grandfather James L. Courtney. Get over it.

      • 18.5.3
        Carol says:

        That ebay photo proves only one thing to me Betty. That you are that desperate to jump on a photo that you know can't be proven to be James L Courtney much less a photo taken in Blevins, Texas. The true names of the person in the ebay photo will come to surface and when that day comes you are going to have to face the music that you were wrong. Wild West readers will stumble across your article as they have other imposters in the past and shed more light on the truth.
        Not to bust your bubble, but I would quit while your ahead. You have a story of interest but you The Jesse Woodson James was not your great great grandfather regardless of what you think and have been told.

    • 18.6
      Heidi S. says:

      That bugs me too, Carol. Why would Frank James spend so much time with Jesse E. James and his family if they weren't related?

      Heidi

      • 18.6.1
        Greg Ellison says:

        Heidi,

        You have to remember that Frank James was as big a part of the cover up as Jesse James was.

        Have you ever wondered why Zee and Annie would never talk about what happened even after Jesse supposedly died and Frank died?

        I think it was because Jesse James was still alive and they new it.

        Jesse Jr. was raised to believe the story that Jesse James was his father and therefore they all had to go along with that. Jesse Jr. really believed he was the son of Jesse James all of his life because he was never told the true facts.

        If one studies the traditional story and really thinks about why much of it doesn't fit then it becomes clearer that Jesse James faked his death.

        Greg Ellison

      • 18.6.2
        Carol says:

        Greg didn't meet you. We all know that. He was sniffing fumes again from that JLC story. But the following explains something of importance

        NURSED JESSE JAMES

        ——————————————————————————–

        ARREST OF NEGRO REVIVES FOR-
        GOTTEN BANDIT.

        ——————————————————————————–

        Son of Noted Highwayman, but
        Now a Lawyer, Appeared in
        Court in Defense of
        Former Slave.

        Charles Finley, a negro, of 523 Bluff street, who was tried before Justice J. B. Shoemaker yesterday afternoon and bound over to the criminal court on the charge of stabbing Edward Dyer, a member of the fire department at the Fifth and Bluff street station, was reared by Zerelda James-Samuels, was a hostler for Jesse and Frank James, the bandits, in their palmy days, and nursed young Jesse James, the Kansas City lawyer. Young Jesse defended him in the justice court yesterday and would take no fee.

        "It's the first time I have been in trouble, since Master Jesse was killed twenty-five years ago in St. Joseph," said Finley last evening. "When I was arrested, I telephoned for Young Jesse, for I done raised that boy from a baby, just as his grandmother had raised me, and he came double quick and took my case. I knew he would not forget me when I got in trouble.

        My father and mother were 'Reldie James' slaves long before the war. They lived on a farm near Kearney, Clay county, where I was born during the war. I never was a slave, but Old Misses 'Reldie raised me and my mother gave me to Susan James until I was 21 years of age. When Susan married Mr. Palmer and went to Texas, I went along and worked for them.

        "I was back in Kearney pretty soon, though, and lived with 'Reldie. I never could forget that she had treated me like one of her own when I was a baby and that she always put me back of her on the horse when she rode to Liberty or about the farm.

        "When Jesse and Frank got to be bad men, they needed someone with them so they took me to care for their horses and run errands. I ran with them most all the time, until Jesse was killed. I was not in St. Joseph that day, but heard all about it pretty soon. I was at home with 'Reldie.

        "Old Miss 'Reldie thinks a whole lot of me yet — she is Mrs. Samuels now, you know — but she wouldn't do any more for me than would young Jesse or his sister.

        "How did I come to leave her? Why, I came down here after Jesse was killed. I have worked for young Jesse a good deal. Then I got married and have a family of my own, so I have to stay here and work."

        Charlie is a concreter. He says he makes $2 a day at it, but he doesn't enjoy the work nearly so well as he used to enjoy living on the farm near Kearney and helping " 'Reldie" take care of young Jesse.

        "That boy sure was a smart little fellow," Finley says, "but he was powerful mischievous."

      • 18.6.3
        Rollie Taylor says:

        Carol,

        The 1880 TX census of Clay County confirms that Charles Finley, a 19 year old black man born in MO was a servant in the household of Allen and Susan Parmer.

        Zerelda's grandson, Jesse Edwards James, was defending the son of his grandparents slaves.

      • 18.6.4
        Greg Ellison says:

        Rollie Taylor,

        Of course Jesse James Jr. would defend him. After all, Jesse Edwards James changed his name to Jesse James Jr. because he was always told he was the son of Jesse James. Of course this was after he changed his name from Tim Howard to Jesse Edwards James and I believe he was Dave Howard or some other name before he was Tim Howard.

        Well how about that, he was four different people just like your James L. Courtney!

        Greg Ellison

      • 18.6.5
        Chuck Rabas says:

        RE: 18.6.4
        "After all, Jesse Edwards James changed his name to Jesse James Jr. because he was always told he was the son of Jesse James."

        He routinely signed as Jesse E. James, and seldom used Jesse James, Jr., the name bestowed on him by the newspapers of the time. The only time that comes to mind is in his book, Jesse James, My Father.

  19. 19
    Peter Hubbard says:

    Nice try Greg, but you've failed yet again.

    "The new group photo answers a lot of questions from the past and will continue to do so as new findings develope from it."

    You haven't even started to research this image! Eyeball identification is not acceptable provenance particularly with a newly surfaced image. But that's all you seem to do, look at a picture and make a declaration. If you did more then just that you'd be able to address the following;

    Give me proof that Jesse is in the photo.

    Give me proof that Frank and Annie are in this picture.

    Give me proof with footnotes and sources about how you dated this image.

    • 19.1
      Greg Ellison says:

      Peter Hubbard,

      If you won't accept the previous post then there is no use talking to a unless idiot like yourself! You are a waste of my time! Below is my previous post to you.

      Greg Ellison
      ————————————

      Peter Hubbard,

      Even Carol Holmes says it is Frank and Annie in the photo and she is on your team!

      Armand DeGregoris has photos in his collection that match Frank and Annie in the new group photo perfectly. I have copies of them he sent me years ago that I may produce if he doesn't come out with them. He knows the truth.

      The wedding party sitting in front is clearly the focus of the image. Frank James, Annie James and Jesse James. The lady behind Jesse is identified in writing on the back of the photo by Arch Nicholson as being Mrs. Jesse James. Arch Nicholson is the nephew of Jesse James and was born in 1879. See Arch Nicholson's chart below. His grandfather was also a Courtney making an easy segway for Jesse James.

      Betty Duke's Great-Granfather's photos match Jesse James in the group photo. The good people of Wild West Magazine saw this and that is why it is featured in their magazine. So I ask, Why can't you see it?

      Greg Ellison

      Arch Nicholson's father was William A. Nicholson and his mother was Sarah Louisa Samuel (Jesse and Frank's half-sister).

      William A. Nicholson's parents were:

      Father: James Courtney Nicholson b: 17 Jan 1831 in Gerrard, Kentucky, United States
      Mother: Mary Eliza Brockman b: 1 Dec 1833 in Garrard, Kentucky, United States

      William A. Nicholson married first:

      Marriage 1 Mary Catherine Tilger b: 19 Nov 1861 in Missouri, United States
      William A. Nicholson married second:

      Marriage 2 Sarah Louisa Samuel b: 26 Dec 1858 in Kearney, Clay, Missouri, USA
      •Married: 28 Nov 1878 in , Clay, Missouri, USA 1
      William A. Nicholson and Sarah Louisa Samuel's children were as follows:

      Children
      1. James or John Archibald "Arch" Nicholson b: 19 Oct 1879 in , Clay, Missouri, USA
      2. Frank Nicholson b: 31 Mar 1882 in , Clay, Missouri, USA
      3. Frederick Brockman Nicholson b: 9 Nov 1891 in Clay, Missouri, United States

      • 19.1.1
        Peter Hubbard says:

        Simply repeating your gibberish doesn't work here! Do some real research and gather some actual provenance. If you can't stand behind your statements with FACTS then you might as well catch the next bus to Palookaville!!

      • 19.1.2
        Greg Ellison says:

        Petter Hubbard,

        Why then have you repeated your gibberish several times?

        Like I said before, no amount of proof would satisfy your pee brain!

        BTW, I passed your place and Palookaville on the way to Wild West Magazine, America's BEST SELLING Western History Magazine!

        Greg Ellison

    • 19.2
      Betty Dorsett Duke says:

      Visit my website and you'll see the proof.

      Now Mr. Hubbard, prove to me that Jesse James was married to Zee Mimms and had children with her. Prove to me that Jesse James died on April 3, 1882.

      • 19.2.1
        Peter Hubbard says:

        The highest court in Missouri said he died in 1882. Here's your proof. If you disagree then go get a decision from a court!

        "On September 28, 1971 the Missouri Court of Appeals in ruling on the matter of Stella James vs. Rudy Turilli ruled that Jesse W. James DIED IN 1882;"

        The court's ruling stated,

        “The plaintiffs were required to present defendant with information sufficient to persuade an ordinary man to believe Jesse W. James was killed in 1882. In testing the sufficiency of the evidence to meet that burden we must view it in a light most favorable to plaintiffs and indulge every inference which men of average intelligence and fairness might draw from the proven facts.”

      • 19.2.2
        Peter Hubbard says:

        Give me hard, cold proof with documentation, not your opinion that Jesse is in the photo.

        Give me proof that Frank and Annie are in this picture.

        Give me proof with footnotes and sources about how you dated this image.

      • 19.2.3
        Frank says:

        http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e1/Jesse_James_dead_01.jpg

        http://www.awesomestories.com/images/user/0f7ebe838c.jpg

        http://shs.umsystem.edu/famousmissourians/folklegends/james/images/15b_023822.jpg

        Not one person denied the man in the coffin. Right down from Zerelda's own words and Jesse James Jr's own words witnessing him die at the hand of Bob Ford. Let's not forget the dna tests back in 1995 that has still yet to be refuted. Now, prove that Jesse James lived beyond 1882. Still can't do that I see. Jesse James died April 3, 1882. Get over it.

      • 19.2.4
        Heidi S. says:

        Betty,

        If you do not believe Zee was married to Jesse, who do you believe was the man she was married to?

        Heidi

      • 19.2.5
        John Smith says:

        I have visited your website. Your website has lots of POOF but no proof.

        It is well known that you dispute each and every fact that shows your claim to be a descendant of JWJ is a farce.

        Zerelda named her dead son, Jesse Woodson James, in her will. Zerelda named her grandson, Jesse Edwards James, in her will. The California death certificate shows that Mims was the mother of Jesse Edwards James.

        Your evidence that your great-grandfather was Jesse James is a generous amount of hearsay and hot air told told with a straight face.

  20. 20
    Peter Hubbard says:

    You can't provide these answers because you haven't done your homework;

    Give me proof that Jesse is in the photo.

    Give me proof that Frank and Annie are in this picture.

    Give me proof with footnotes and sources about how you dated this image.

    Try doing some research for a change.

    "Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence." John Adams

  21. 21
    Don Jackson says:

    Well what is J.Z. Jackson doing in this photo. There are far more people recognize him than don't, It doesn't take a thick binder and a foot note to prove that.

  22. 22
    Carol says:

    Greg Ellison Post:

    Greg Ellison says:
    2/14/2011 at 4:21 pm
    Carol,

    Betty got twenty three valuable photos in that lot and many had never been seen before so your jealous rantings about the thousand bucks if foolish at best. The seller said you told her you wish you could have gotten them.

    Greg Ellison

    My post to Cathi read as follows:

    Dear cathbas,
    One more time on this ebay photo. I am at a loss at why she insist that I bid against her on the ebay photo. Your records show I did not bid on the item. Apparently she did not straighten out what you said and meant in the way of an apology to you which I knew she would never do.
    I would like you to read the following:

    Jeszsgrl Jan-15 4:11 pm
    To: GregEllison (289 of 294)

    538.289 in reply to 538.282

    Greg, you were right to repost your message so I can address this ridiculous issue Carol has caused.

    It is my personal opinion that you are right about Carol and/or "Frank Cole" attempting to prevent me from winning Lot 23 which I only bid on in order to obtain the James family photo. While I can't prove this I do know for a fact that Cathi, the seller, told me that Carol had contacted her through Ebay numerous times before the bidding had ended basically telling her how important this picture is and that she (Carol)didn't think Cathi realized what she had. Carol has also contacted Cathi a number of times after I won the picture and on at least one occasion asked Cathi how I got the picture. She also told Cathi other things in an attempt to get sympathy. This is exactly how Carol works, she contacts any and everyone connected to my research The photo was not connected to her research while it was on ebay and comes off as being very friendly and chatty but her real goal is to obtain information to use against me.

    Well Mr. Ellison. This is the email I got when I ask about this matter.

    Dear crolholmes
    i hope you know that is not true.
    while i told her that we connected, i did not say you bid on it.
    while i told her that you contacted me regarding the value of the WHOLE lot of items..i did not say that this had anything to do with the photo she was interested in.
    so this was simply an embellishment on what was said.
    dont know why this is such an issue….my advice to you carol is to just state that it simply is not true and that is it.
    fires die down if nothing is added to them.
    other wise this will just go on and on.
    sorry
    cathi
    - cathbas

    All I was doing was telling Cathi my knowledge of the Howk letters and the Dalton Connection so that she would know what she had come into.
    Here you have Mrs. Duke lying about what took place between myself and another party so now one can get the idea of what Mrs.Dukes true agenda is. If you don't agree with her 100 percent than you become a detractor. Then she moves on to the more gullible.
    And so it be.

    • 22.1
      Betty Dorsett Duke says:

      You said everything I said you did except for that the word "higher" and that was immediately removed in my post on Greg's forum. You know I'm right Carol. I have the emails from Cathi to prove it.

      • 22.1.1
        Carol says:

        No, I don't guess I would know you are right because I didn't get a notification of your corrected post and I am no longer a member of that forum board. Why would you make such a statement on a public board that could be tracked back as a lie.

      • 22.1.2
        Frank says:

        In the words of Fran -

        "Those who research and share their findings are often labeled as
        "detractors", in a derogatory way, by those who have not sufficiently researched a subject, or do not realize what constitutes a proper paper trail.

        I call those who use who stop short in their research of a subject and use that term in a derogatory manner as "Demules".

        Detractors can plow a field of information many times more efficently than demules!"

        Betty Barr is the great granddaughter of Jesse Woodson James. Betty Duke is an imposter.

    • 22.2
      Betty Dorsett Duke says:

      On Dec. 29, 2010 I posted this on Greg Ellison's forum:

      The seller of the Ebay picture of the James Family that I recently won told me that Carol emailed her asking how I won. Carol also told the seller that she (Carol) should have bid. I find this very strange. What's the point of all of this?

      The seller told me that the high bidder never contacted her and never paid for the items.

      Cathi sent me this email on Jan. 4, 2010:

      "…also, i saw the post you wrote about carol telling me she should have bid higher. I dont want you to have more trouble in your relationships. she just told me she wished she would have bid. but carol didn't say bid higher. I just dont want you to misquote this and have more problems, and i am sorry if you misunderstood me..

      thanks again

      cathi"

      • 22.2.1
        Carol says:

        Something about your story never washed from the start. As you will note in Cathi's email she says, "She wish she would have bid." Never did Cathi say that I tried to out bid you as you wrote on Greg's forum. That made you out to be a liar. WIth all due respect. Kinda like my Del Schrader book I have remined you of that you say you could never find but you tell Lou here recently that you have it. Not only do you lie but you steal. Did you remove the "Higher" part after Cathi and I discussed your actions on the forum board or before. Did you ever tell Cathi you were sorry for lying about our conversation? That ebay photo tells me one thing. Just how far you will push to make your fantasy come to life. What ever floats your boat.

      • 22.2.2
        Carol says:

        I work for others so I was only doing my job to enquire with Cathi who bought the photos. You know how us private researchers work.

  23. 23
    Betty Dorsett Duke says:

    Greg,

    Carol claims that she feels like she wasted her time helping me, but she is just saying that to "save face". If she really believes she did then why is she still wasting time on it???

    This entire situation with my detractors makes me laugh – they think they are doing me great harm but everyone is on to them thanks to the Ebay picture – "The Perfect Picture".

    You're right about Peter Hubbard really being Eric James.

    Betty

  24. 24
    Mel Graf says:

    Peter,

    In reference to post 15.1, The "Jesse James Preservation Trust" is not to be confused with the "James Preservation Trust." The "Jesse James Preservation Trust" is a creation of Greg Ellison as you can see as you scroll down this page:

    http://theellisoncollection.com/pri.php?gal=cs5vrxc4&gid=108

    He bills it as the "Official Trust." "Official" by who is anyone's guess. So, the photo he told you was "confirmed" by the "trust" to be Jesse James was merely "confirmed" by him. Have a look at his "Abraham Lincoln" photo to see his ability at identifying figures in photographs. He also told you his trust "represents the Jesse James Family." Only if one believes that Betty Duke is "the Jesse James Family."

    On the other hand, the "James Preservation Trust" is very well known by those who study Jesse Woodson James and keeps close ties with the James Farm. The "James Preservation Trust" as well as the Smithsonian, PBS, The History Channel, the James Farm, the state of Missouri, and the city of St. Joseph all list April 3, 1882 as the date of Jesse Woodson James' demise because that is what the historical record reflects. Because Betty Duke cannot overcome that basic fact, all the rest of her blather simply evaporates.

    http://www.ericjames.org/Charles%20S%20Broomfield/index.html

    Mel Graf

    • 24.1
      Greg Ellison says:

      Mel Graf,

      I love that fact that you posted the link to the Jesse James Preservation Trust and I agree with you that it is my creation just as the James Presevation Trust is a creation of Eric James. The Jesse James Preservation Trust is every bit as official as the James Preservation Trust and more so. Eric James has been asked on many occasions to present the officers of his "Trust" and the official document from the family of Jesse James proclaiming his "Trust" to be the official family trust and he has failed to do so. His new Vice-President Mr. Bloomfield has never even made a public statement concerning the James Preservation Trust to my knowledge. Is that any way for a senior officer to act, totally in the dark?

      I just visited the James Farm and Museum yesterday and General Manage, Beth Beckett, told me that Eric James has nothing to do with the farm and she has never been in contact with him concerning issues of the farm. She said that she had dealt with Judge Ross when he was alive but since his death has not had dealings with Eric James concerning Family or Farm issues. That is coming straight from the horses mouth.

      The Jesse James Preservation Trust has three officers and several members and is preserving the history archives of the Poor family that I own, Jesse James relatives, and the entire James clan.

      I love the link to the detractors and their illegal activites that is on the link from my site that you posted. You can't beat proof like that!

      Greg Ellison

      • 24.1.1
        Frank says:

        Very funny! Even more lies from the proven fraud, scammer and crook laughed out of the historical community. Your agenda is to stir up trouble, promote fraud and harass people that know your image collection is bogus as usual.

        http://www.fbi.gov/wanted/dt/elizabeth-anna-duke
        Perhaps a mustache on one of the images?

        Also, queery Daniel Duke on this website:

        http://judicialrecords.wilco.org/JailingSearch.aspx?ID=400

        May not be the same guy but it's fun. Right, Greg? :-)

        Let's not forget Ellison's Missouri Courts record either for scamming people.

        https://www.courts.mo.gov/casenet/cases/nameSearch.do

        Speaking of "illegal activites". You lost. Now take your fraud to the Missouri Courts and the Supreme and see how far you get. You still can't change historical fact. Keep trying. ;-)

      • 24.1.2
        John Smith says:

        Mr. Ellison,

        Your confession confirms that your guess that Jesse James is one of the individuals in the 1888 postcard was subsequently authenticated by you personally under the cloak of a bogus organization, "The Jesse James Preservation Trust". For shame!! What a disreputable act, trying to deceive the unwary.

      • 24.1.3
        Greg Ellison says:

        John Smith,

        The Jesse James Preservation Trust is an organization that I head that protects the interest of the Jesse James Family just like the James Preservation Trust owned by Eric James covers the James Family in general. His data base is huge. Way out of the realmn of the Jesse James Family. At the Jesse James Preservation Trust we focus on the very few but real relatives of Jesse James and people known to associate with him.

        Our organization serves many purposes and examining photos of the Jesse James Family and gang is one of them.

        Greg Ellison

      • 24.1.4
        John Smith says:

        Mr. Ellison,

        "At the Jesse James Preservation Trust we focus on the very few but real relatives of Jesse James and people known to associate with him."

        Real relatives? In what way is James Lafayette Courtney related to Jesse Woodson James? In what way did James Lafayette Courtney associate with Jesse Woodson James?

        Is English your first language? You seem to have difficulty with the meaning of words.

      • 24.1.5
        Greg Ellison says:

        John Smith,

        Where did you really find those gold tablets that you won't let anyone see?

        That question is about as off base as the questions you are asking me. Anyone who is interested in this story knows that Jesse James was not James L. Courtney. James L. Courtney was simply a name that Jesse James used to hide his identity. The 1870 census proves that the real James L. Courtney vanished.

        The "real" relatives that the Jesse James Preservation Trust represents are the James and Poor families and there descendants. Eric James group represents every person in the world as being related to Jesse James. Eric James even did a lecture a few years ago titled "Hell, Were're all related to Jesse James". That lecture proved to me just how untrustworthy Eric James was and nothng has changed my mind since.

        Greg Ellison

      • 24.1.6
        John Smith says:

        Mr. Ellison,

        Your words:
        “Anyone who is interested in this story knows that Jesse James was not James L. Courtney.”
        I’m delighted that acknowledge the fallacy of Ms. Duke’s story.

        Your words:
        “James L. Courtney was simply a name that Jesse James used to hide his identity. The 1870 census proves that the real James L. Courtney vanished.”

        Another frantic rush to an erroneous conclusion, comparable to your assertion that the group picture of Zerelda includes Jesse, Frank, and Annie Ralston.

        Census records of the life of James Lafayette Courtney:
        1860 MO census, Johnson Co, MF page 965, line 17. James L. Courtney, age 14, TN
        1865 KS census, Miami Co, Richland Twp., Blackjack P. O., dwelling 115, line 14. J. L. Courtney, age18, TN
        1870 KS census, Morris Co, Neosho Twp. MF page 701, line 39. James Haun, age 23, TN
        1880 TX census, Falls Co, MF page 271, line 19. J. L. Courtney, age 33, TN.
        1900 TX census, Falls Co, MF page 342B, line 84. James L. Courtney, age 53, TN
        1910 TX census, Lubbock Co, MF page 305A, line 40. James L. Courtney, age 63, TN
        1920 TX census, Falls Co, MF page 86, line 84. Jim L. Courtney, age 76, TN
        1930 TX census, Falls Co, MF page 115, line 44. J. L. Courtney, age 85, MO
        1943 – James L. Courtney died 14 April 1943, buried in Blevins Cemetery.

        I realize you have problems understanding the importance of census records, as well as the limitation of census records, so here are the details:
        1860
        Stephen Courtney, age 38, born TN
        Dianah D. Courtney, age 39, born VA
        James L. Courtney, age 14, born TN
        Harriet E. Courtney, age 12, born TN
        Theodore N. Courtney, age 10, born TN
        Robert W. Courtney, age 5, born MO
        John A. Courtney, age 1, born MO

        1865 KS State census
        Steven Courtney, age 43, TN
        D. D. Courtney, age 44, VA
        J. L. Courtney, age 18, TN (12 mo. S. Militia)
        A. G. Courtney, age 16, TN
        T. N. Courtney, age 14, TN
        R. W. Courtney, age 10, MO
        J. A. Courtney, age 7, MO

        1870 census
        Andrew Haun, age 48, TN
        Dianah Haun, age 49, TN
        James Haun, age 23, TN
        Theodore Haun, age 21, TN
        Robert Haun, age 16, MO
        John Haun, age 14, MO

        The given names and birthplaces of the sons are consistent. The age of John in 1870 should be 11 or 12. Stephen is spelled Steven in the 1860 census. The 1865 KS state census shows J. L. Courtney had served 12 months in militia. Harriet is incorrectly recorded as A. G. in the 1865 census. She married Peter Black after the 1865 census and before the 1870 census and left the family group. These census records establish the members of the family group, and show that the surname changed from Courtney to Haun. Subsequent census records prove that Andrew, Theodore, Robert, and John retained the Haun surname until their death.

        James L. Courtney lived under his birth name until his death, with the exception of 1882 KS estate records after the death of his father, Andrew J. Haun; the 1917 KS Petition for Letters of Administration after the death of his mother, Mrs. D. D. Haun; and his identification in the obituary of, Robert W. Haun of Pawnee, OK, as one of two surviving brothers, T. N., of Parkersville, KS, and J. L., of Troy, TX, (where J. L. Courtney had lived for over 50 years). After the 1870 census was recorded, there is a Warranty Deed dated 7 April 1871. James L. Courtney of Miami County, Kansas sold land to William P. Ashby of Johnson County, Missouri. James L. Courtney, upon his arrival in Texas, purchased a book 28 June 1871 in Decatur, TX, and made an entry requesting that, if lost, his book be return to his uncle, E. L. Andruss of Cass County, MO. E. L. Andruss was a brother of Dianah D. Andruss.

        Mr. Ellison, unless you are as mentally challenged as Ms. Duke, you should be able to understand that James L. Courtney did not disappear after the 1870 census, but lived the remainder of his life under his birth name as noted above.

      • 24.1.7
        Greg Ellison says:

        John Smith,

        I had absolutely no doubt that you would use your immaturity to take my words out of context and not use my entire statement!

        Here is my entire statement so honest people can see it an know how you attempted to deceive them:

        "Anyone who is interested in this story knows that Jesse James was not James L. Courtney. James L. Courtney was simply a name that Jesse James used to hide his identity. The 1870 census proves that the real James L. Courtney vanished."

        Thank you for showing us your crooked ways and giving everyone reason not to believe anything else you post. You and all of your friends do exactly the same thing and you have exposed yourself as have the rest!

        Don't you ever get tired of losing these battles?

        Greg Ellison

      • 24.1.8
        John Smith says:

        Mr. Ellison,

        Please explain how the 1870 census proves that James L. Courtney vanished.

        Initially, Ms. Duke suggested that James L. Courtney was killed in the Civil War, and Jesse James removed his ID from his body. That story didn't fly, for James L. Courtney appears in the parents' household in the 1865 Kansas state census. The next version Ms. Duke tried to sell was that James L. Courtney changed his name to James L. Haun "forevermore". That story stunk too, for James Haun was never found in any census, birth, marriage, death, or cemetery record after 1870. Ms. Duke even tried to con people into believing that James Taylor Haun of Lincoln County, OK, was James L. Courtney. Now the latest attempt to fool the public is to convince us the aliens vaporized James L. Courtney when they landed in Roswell. Mr. Ellison, you know a great deal about arguments and insults and very little about research. You are spitting in the wind when you state that James L. Courtney disappeared. Check his TX death certificate, and don't come back with the BS that they had to use an alias to protect a dead man.

      • 24.1.9
        Frank says:

        John Smith,

        If only Ellison had eyes to see and common sense to use -

        http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~jessejames/jlcdc.jpg

      • 24.1.10
        Greg Ellison says:

        John Smith,

        I repeat:

        You said: "A rational individual could only conclude that James L. Courtney lived under his birth name for all of his life except for the 4 instances cited above."

        Except for "4 instances"? A rational person would realize that something was really messed up about that genealogy.

        Given the admitted deceptions by your co-genealogist, Fran Bolton and Glynda Campbell, I do not have any need or want to believe any of your so-called research.

        Greg Ellison

      • 24.1.11
        John Smith says:

        Mr. Ellison,

        Since you seem to be allergic to facts and prefer to pass gas, please respond to this specific request..

        Prove that James L. Courtney disappeared on or before the date of the 1870 census of Kansas.

        Thank you.

  25. 25
    Eldon says:

    My name is Eldon, and this is my first plost and my last post. Greg and Betty, cant you see this is the same bunch of detractors that keep harrassing until they got one Jesse James forum shut down or was is two. Besides the regulars they really dug deep this time, they even got Rollie and even Carol Holmes [which nobody can believe. All you can expect from Rollie is some stuff about a letter and a post card. I have explained to him numereous times there are a hundred answers for those very things. Then you cant believe anything that Carol says because one time she will be on one side and then the other. And to the man that is interested in the census [ I thought we had that covered] The only thing I disagree with Betty is that James L Courtney didnt change his name. The family story tells that he was murdered and no one ever found his body. Then when Jesse changed his name it was in the census for the next 60 years as James L Courtney.

    To all you detractors I say this before you ask me to prove what I've said, I say this PROVE THAT IT IS NOT SO.

    • 25.1
      Rollie Taylor says:

      Eldon,
      That is a very interesting variation of the story. If James L. Courtney was murdered, that would answer the question, "Where was James L. Courtney in census records after he changed his name to James Haun", as Ms. Duke has suggested. Was he murdered before or after the Stephen Courtney family group changed their surname to Haun about 1867? Was he murdered in Missouri or Texas. If he never changed his name from James L. Courtney, that means he was murdered after he served in the Union army, and after the 1865 Kansas census, and before the 1870 census of Kansas. Am I wrong?

    • 25.2
      Frank says:

      Eldon,

      "One can't get YDNA from a photograph…..If Mrs. Duke truly wants an answer…she will go to the Courtney family and match their YDNA to a James relative from the Jesse and Frank James family. If Eldon Courtney is a James……let him prove it. "

      What are YOU so afraid of?

      • 25.2.1
        Rollie Taylor says:

        Frank,

        The Y chromosome DNA tests were done years ago. Samples provided by descendants of Theodore N. Haun, and a sample from a descendant of his brother, James L. Courtney, indicated that they were closely related, verifying the 1870 KS census where the family group of Andrew J. Haun included brothers James L., Theodore N., John A., and Robert W. Haun. Only James L. chose to live the remainder of his life under his birth name, James L. Courtney. Of course, Ms. Duke disputes these results, just as she disputes the mtDNA test results that show Jesse James is buried in Kearney, MO, or any other evidence which reveals the fallacy of her make believe story. Meanwhile, Ms. Duke has the audacity to claim that Travis Barron was Jesse James, ignoring his correnct identity provided by the Barron family.

  26. 26
    Frank says:

    Proud of a known fraud and scammer trying to scam people with a hoax?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0I2u4Hfnbl4

    Claim debunked. Thanks for the laughs though. Imposters, crooks and frauds provide the best comedy.

    P.S. Good luck trying to pass off Irving Gilmer as James L. Courtney, Travis Barron and/or Jesse James. :-)

  27. 27
  28. 28
    Frank says:

    "Fraud’s names and fraud’s faces are often seen in public places. However, these frauds will never be successful in changing the historical record though they will make frequent attempts. Their nonsense always falls like a house of cards when scrutinized by legitimate historians or by anyone else with a lick of good sense.

    The Missouri Image Scammer continues his endless and inane prattle that he considers an “argument.” The same boorish behavior that’s successfully gotten him banned from True West, BJ’s Tombstone History Discussion, EBay Fakes Forum, MV’s, Butch’s and this Delphi forum. Of course, he thrives off of confrontation. Nothing but rubbish from him along with the bilge from the Liberty Hill boob and their “boy” wonder Robbie (or whatever his/her alias du jour might be).

    I’m grateful that Bob Boze Bell would never subject his readers to the ridiculous and delusional story that James L. Courtney was Jesse Woodson James. He could be ribbing the editor of Wild West but he’s a better man than that. I give credit to Wild West for acknowledging Ted Yeatman as “one of the nation's foremost authorities on the James brothers” in 2007. Yeatman didn’t buy into the Liberty Hill boob’s idiotic “what ifs” and “must have beens” or the Missouri Image Scammer’s ridiculous photo “identifications.” So the Liberty Hill boob is still on her “quest” to find out about her family history. A quest, by definition, is ongoing and active effort, thus she still can’t prove that Jesse James lived beyond 1882.

    Jesse James date of death was April 3, 1882. This date is listed by the Smithsonian, the State of Missouri, The James Farm, the City of St. Joseph, and Public Broadcasting as the date Jesse James died. Even The History Channel lists it:

    http://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/jesse-james-is-murdered

    No worries at all about the frauds rewriting history. No worries either about their numerous and varied threats to those who expose them as the frauds they are. I must say, it is funny to hear how the frauds are pissing all over themselves and each other about J. Frank Dalton versus James L. Courtney as “Jesse James.” :)

    Amen!

  29. 29
  30. 30
    Frank says:

    "Greg Ellison-

    Kindly address these simple inquires directly and each one specifically;

    Give me proof that Jesse is in the photo.

    Give me proof that Frank and Annie are in this picture.

    Give me proof with footnotes and sources about how you dated this image."

    He's incapable, Peter. Just like he's incapable of showing which 25 images Phil Steele supposedly authenticated when he had Alzheimer's. No one will ever get any straight answers from Ellison.

  31. 31
    Greg Ellison says:

    Mel Graf says:
    2/15/2011 at 4:18 pm

    In reference to post 15.1, The "Jesse James Preservation Trust" is not to be confused with the "James Preservation Trust." The "Jesse James Preservation Trust" is a creation of Greg Ellison as you can see as you scroll down this page:

    http://theellisoncollection.com/pri.php?gal=cs5vrxc4&gid=108

    Amen Melvin Graf! I love the link!

    Greg Ellison

  32. 32
    Dallas Hunt says:

    I've tried to avoid this discussion on account of Betty's detractors making fraudulent accusations, telling outright lies, harassing people, and generally raising cain. Any newcomer will see how crazy these people are. I ask all readers why would Betty, Greg, I and others receive death threats and be harassed if James Courtney wasn't actually Jesse James? It makes no sense! Do a simple search on Greg's delphi forum and you will find e-mails that were received by all of us by the detractors. They are posted up for the world to see. Most of the people commenting on this issue are bad people and you can see there reasoning for being mad. If James Courtney was Jesse James(which he was) then there precious connection to Jesse James will not exist and everyone wants to be related to America's and possibly one of the worlds biggest folk hero's don't they? Pay no attention to "Frank" he is a fraud and among things threatened to burn down Greg Ellison's house down with his wife and kids in it, for no reason. He is being investigated by the FBI. He's bad news and mad as a hornet cus' he's going to be locked up. I found the Quantrell Reunion photo posted in this issue of wild west and James Courtney can clearly be seen on the left side in the middle. The other photo Greg found obviously shows James Courtney aka Jesse James with his Blevins neighbors The Jacksons and family. There is much more to this story I urge everyone to look into it, you will be surprised. So In the end good always overcomes bad and one day history will recognize that James Courtney was indeed Jesse James.

  33. 33
    Worcester Will says:

    I find it funny how Mrs Duke's detractors spend each and every day of their lives trying to discredit something they claim isn't important or legitimate. For something they claim isn't important, they've devoted their lives to it. I think that either they or the owner of the trust that pays them a little money is very afraid of the truth coming out.

    • 33.1
      Frank says:

      Actually, Mrs. Duke and her tiny little few that support her scam are the real "detractors" of true history. Just ask the judge that threw her out of court for lies and altering photos. If her claim didn't have so many holes in it it wouldn't be argued so much every time she comes out with more lies just to cash in on the James name. People just want to help set the record straight.

      No "lives are wasted" but the claimant's wasting all these years disgracing the Courtney name with a hoax. It went nowhere. I'm sorry you were duped, Will.

    • 33.2
      Fran Bolton says:

      Worcester Will says:
      2/17/2011 at 8:12 am

      "I think that either they or the owner of the trust that pays them a little money is very afraid of the truth coming out."

      On the contrary! If there was a "truth coming out", think of the huge profits that would generate to everything Jesse James that would have to be corrected, re-written, updated.

      Fran Bolton

    • 33.3
      Chuck Rabas says:

      Worcester,
      On the contrary — those pointing out the massive flaws in Betty's claim do so to protect those who are otherwise too uninformed to know it's completely fraudulant. Do you have any documentation to support her?

  34. 34
    Jim Stover says:

    Look at all the trouble these swindlers bring to this forum and this website. We don't need that here. The photograph in question has nothing to back it. End of story.

    The reputations of both Betty Duke and Greg Ellison is also a red flag. Dishonesty at its worst. Do the research and do the math.

    Jim

    • 34.1
      Greg Ellison says:

      Jim Stover,

      You're calling Wild West Magazine, America' BEST SELLING Western History Magazine a "swindler' with that comment! They are very excited about this new image and moved the publication up many months so it could appear in the April 2011 issue!

      The reputations you speak of are of good and decent people. The negativity is an invention by a few of the jealous posters you see here that post their jealousy all over the interent. It is easily distinquished when seen!

      Greg Ellison

      • 34.1.1
        Jim Stover says:

        Greg Ellison,

        I'm calling you a swindler. Don't be too surprised when Wild West Magazine denies your claim. It having no documentation or provenance should offer anyone a clue.

        The reputations of both you and Betty Duke isn't decent by a long shot either. How do you sleep at night? Get some morals.

      • 34.1.2
        Greg Ellison says:

        Jim Stover,

        Wild West Magazine was well aware of you and your co-hort's past before the article was published and they expected the reaction that you are presenting here on their site. You are proving what we warned Wild West Magazine about so I thank you for proving us right once again!

        Your group has called me a liar repeatedly.

        I have had a long standing challege for you and your co-horts to prove with facts that I have ever lied or deceived anyone and to this day none of you have even attempted to prove that. I ask again, where can you prove that I have ever lied? What does that tell everyone? That you are the liars as you are proving here on the Wild West forum.

        Greg Ellison

      • 34.1.3
        Jim Stover says:

        Greg Ellison,

        All Wild West Magazine has to do is notice your behavior here and your reputation within the historical community. I know how well your activities are documented. It's a paper trail of trouble. The same goes for Mrs. Duke.

        You're trying to force a lie onto the public. Wild West and its readers are all becoming aware of it. This trouble didn't start until you brought it here.

        Jim

      • 34.1.4
        Greg Ellison says:

        Jim Stover,

        Your behavior looks far worse than anything I have done. I hope they're watching!

        Wild West Magazine knows very well the trouble that your group causes and are on guard for it. This isn't a surprise to them at all! Matter-of-fact it is proof that we were right about your group!

        In case your simple mind didn't notice, I was here first and the first few post were respectful until your group change that by their false accusations and childish lies.

        I'm offering an opinion just like anyone else would and it is up to the readers to decide for themselves. Not for you to decide for them as you want it to be.

        None of the lettters to my site about the Wild West article have been negative in any way so your wishful lies do not concern me in the slightest.

        Greg Ellison

      • 34.1.5
        Jim Stover says:

        Greg. Ellison,

        Your ranting and raving like a madman up and down this blog is evident for anyone reading this. The fact is, you and Betty Duke are looking for suckers to by into your scam. Your opinion became worthless when you brought this sham and misidentified photograph to this website. Believe you me, Wild West is indeed very aware of you and Mrs. Duke's reputations as being cons.

        I am sorry your quest of deception hasn't worked out for you here. Class act, buddy.

        Jim

      • 34.1.6
        Greg Ellison says:

        Jim Stover,

        I'm sure everyone, including Wild West Magazine, will plainy see that the one "ranting and raving" is the one that is accusing others of "ranting and raving"!

        No worries for me!

        Greg Ellison

      • 34.1.7
        Jim Stover says:

        Greg Ellison,

        Then they obviously have you figured out. You should be worried running this scam. It's catching up to you as you can see. That's the best part about all this.

        Jim

      • 34.1.8
        Jim Stover says:

        Greg Ellison,

        Your accusations of people being someone changing identities ran its course. When you can't take the heat, you look for excuses and run away. That is why you cannot handle a debate or the arguments you start. You are so easily defeated and your paranoia can be witnessed on this blog.

        "He can compress the most words into the smallest idea of any man I know."

        - – - Abraham Lincoln

        This sums up Mr. Ellison perfectly. Good job, Jebediah.

        Jim

      • 34.1.9
        Jebediah Smith says:

        "He can compress the most words into the smallest idea of any man I know."

        - – – Abraham Lincoln

        Jim, that's an appropriate quote!

  35. 35
    Jebediah Smith says:

    Greg Ellison;

    Sensible men and women across our country have followed this discussion and likely wonder if you’re working for the proverbial ‘carrot on the stick’.

    If so, what kind of commission schedule have you and Mrs. Duke agreed on? If that’s the case then I’m sure the money will be payable from the sales of her forthcoming edition. If you have reached that agreement, how many copies must be sold before you receive any money?

    There are qualities of our human experience that stand as higher goals then ‘living large’. Integrity is most important of these intangibles and the paramount consideration here is your intention. Did you sell out or have you never been sincere while in this field? Has it always been about the money or has your original vision become corrupt?

    Good day Mr. Ellison

    • 35.1
      Greg Ellison says:

      Jeb Smith,

      "Sensible men and women across our country" wonder why you think my finances are any of your business!

      The only monies I have ever received for my Jesse James work was from Sterling Publishing who published Laura James book when they deamnded that they pay me for the use of my Jesse James Jr. photo.

      I have never negociated and payment for any thing realted to Jesse James

      • 35.1.1
        Greg Ellison says:

        Jeb Smith,

        The above post somehow was sent before I reviewed it for mistakes but to finish:

        The most money hungry man I have seen in the Jesse James community is Eric James. He consistantly post comments saying that he expects payment for everything he does.

        He claims to have turned down a publisher for his "ground breaking" (his claim) book about Jesse James that nobody has seen even though Eric James has promoted the Hell out of it. If the truth be known I would bet that the publisher is the one that wouldn't meet Eric James high demands of payment for the book.

        That is why Eric James is on this forum hiding under several different names (it's not hard to tell) trying to protect his story that he is planning to present in his yet completed book! Right Jeb?

        Greg Ellison

      • 35.1.2
        Jebediah Smith says:

        "The only monies I have ever received for my Jesse James work was from Sterling Publishing who published Laura James book when they deamnded that they pay me for the use of my Jesse James Jr. photo."

        Are you stating in fact that you have never sold any images of or related to Jesse James?

      • 35.1.3
        Greg Ellison says:

        Jeb,

        Could you please explain to everyone why that is any of your concern and why you are infactuated with money I make?

        I understand that you think every Jesse James image that is for sale on Ebay, or anywhere else for that matter, comes from me but you are sadly mistaken as usual. You listen to the nonsense of your buddies too much. They aren't mine. Mine are in my collection that appear on my website and are not for sale.

        Greg Ellison

      • 35.1.4
        Jim Stover says:

        Greg Ellison,

        Your website is open to sale your misidentified image collection. No words or excuses will save you from that. How many suckers have you suckered? What is your card or choice? LMAO!!!

        Jim

      • 35.1.5
        Jebediah Smith says:

        Well, well Greg Ellison. You have started to retract your statement. You had previously stated;

        "I have never negociated and payment for any thing realted to Jesse James"

        But now you admit

        "some of the amazing images I have sold during my career including one of only three known Civil War Marine photos that I discovered and a James Gang ambrotype."

        Doesn't it feel good to be honest?

        Good day Mr. Ellison

      • 35.1.6
        Frank says:

        Busted! Indeed Ellison needs to practice honesty.

      • 35.1.7
        Greg Ellison says:

        Jeb,

        I hope you're not that stupid and are going to try to use my words out of context when they are right here for eveyrone to see! My answer was in regards to the question you asked below:

        You said: "Sensible men and women across our country have followed this discussion and likely wonder if you’re working for the proverbial ‘carrot on the stick’. If so, what kind of commission schedule have you and Mrs. Duke agreed on?"

        I know you're trying to run from that question by posting this elsewhere but it ain't going to work for you!

        My answer was:""I have never nego(t)iated an(y) payment for any thing re(la)ted to Jesse James"

        That was in response to you asking about my finacial connection to Betty Duke and I stand behind my answer 100% as it concerns my Jesse James Collection!

        Please do not treat the good people here as if they are one of your puppets. They're not! Good researchers know how to read and understand what they are reading. You need to catch up!

        Greg Ellison

      • 35.1.8
        Frank says:

        That excuse doesn't help your case, Ellison. You backed yourself into a corner and you can't get out of it. "Good researchers" and historians do not support you.

        You treat people like dirt with your mile-long record of deception and scams. You have no "Jesse James Collection". It's just a group of misidentified men and women you're trying to pass off as people of the old west. No documentation nor provenance to prove any one image. It's all there to see!

        You're a fraud.

      • 35.1.9
        Greg Ellison says:

        For honest people who want to take and honest look! Proof for all to see. The Poor Provenance page is especially interesting:

        http://theellisoncollection.com/

        Greg Ellison

      • 35.1.10
        Frank says:

        The FACT is Ellison's supposed "Steele letter" cannot by itself verify any one image, much less 25. Even if there were signed affidavits from Steele's secretary, wife, pastor, and best friend saying they were there when Steele wrote the letter it would not add any provenance or value to it. Without detailed notes, bibliography's, and research points to justify an identification on EACH PHOTO the photos cannot be deemed original by anyone.

        It can take weeks, or months, to identify even one image, much less 25 to 50 in a day or so. And the 25 listed on the website were added to the site many months after the site's creation making it a giant leap of faith in Ellison's word of which images Steele supposedly saw. I am also confused as to how Ellison (who needed an outside source for verification due to his own lack of credentials) would determine which images out of 50 were "important" enough for Steele to look at. As Steele was the expert, I would think you hand him the box and let him decide. But Ellison cherrypicked 25 images. Why?

        In my experience, when any item is researched and verified, the notes and details are made as the process unfolds. That is how a conclusion is reached: Through a preponderance of the evidence as it was laid out. I have never heard of an identification being made, then the notes were taken and added afterwards. That makes no sense at all and flies in the face of logic. Plus, to verify an image of such a historically important American, you would need more than one source to agree it is authentic. This, Ellison does not have.

        Soooooo…..at best Greg has 25 images that (supposedly) were verified and seen by Phillip W. Steele that have no notes to back them up. All of the other "verifications" on the Ellison Collection are solely the creations of Greg Ellison and have no basis at all except in Greg's "opinion."

        Many historians have merely pointed out all the glaring inconsistencies with Ellison's "verifications."

        Opinions are like elbows, everyone has one and some are bent. I don't care WHO has seen an image and given an opinion on it. Unless they have credentials, and are willing to put those credentials on paper with detailed notes, they don't matter. It amazes me that Ellison expects thinking, rational, and educated people to accept his "beliefs" with little or no proof. A generic letter, an unverified "Poor" connection and your opinion. That dog don't hunt. And due to the lack of any positive interest in Ellison's collection by anyone that matters, I would say that represents the majority.

        Ellison's proof, as always, is absent. His dishonesty and deception always shines through. His own collection is an embarrassment to himself. And he wonders why no historian supports him.

        Fraud.

    • 35.2
      Jim Stover says:

      Good question, Jebediah. If you notice on the bottom left of Mr. Ellison's website, it clearly states that he accepts Paypal, Visa, Master Card and Discover.

      I recall Mr. Ellison bragging some time ago about his purported Lincoln image. He stated he could sell it for a bundle. I think he just told off on himself.

      • 35.2.1
        Greg Ellison says:

        Jim Stover,

        You just used a phrase that I have heard only one other person use while communicating with me and he is the person that threatened to kill my family and I multiple times. This ends our conversation, if you could call it that!

        BTW, The phrase is "….he just told off on himself."

        Indeed you did!

        Greg Ellison

        PS. My website has built in features that are disabled but still show on the site. Some simple minded people can not understand that even though they have been told repeatedly!

      • 35.2.2
        Jebediah Smith says:

        Greg Ellison;

        I will give you until 6:00 pm central time to retract this statement. If you do not admit to having 'misspoken' I will prove to all that you are lying.

        "The only monies I have ever received for my Jesse James work was from Sterling Publishing who published Laura James book when they deamnded that they pay me for the use of my Jesse James Jr. photo.

        I have never negociated and payment for any thing realted to Jesse James"

      • 35.2.3
        Greg Ellison says:

        Jeb,

        My answer was to your question concerning any finacial realtion between Betty Duke and I:

        You said: "Sensible men and women across our country have followed this discussion and likely wonder if you’re working for the proverbial ‘carrot on the stick’. If so, what kind of commission schedule have you and Mrs. Duke agreed on?"

        I hope that your smart enough to understand your own question and how I answered it. Anyone can go to my SOLD page and see some of the amazing images I have sold during my career including one of only three known Civil War Marine photos that I discovered and a James Gang ambrotype. But that wasn't your question was it? Your question was about monies payed to me by Betty Duke!

        I was referring to my Jesse James Collection that is documented on my website. I can't wait for 6:00 to get here! Prove away!

        Greg Ellison

      • 35.2.4
        Jebediah Smith says:

        Greg Ellison,

        Your partial retraction is most certainly less than sufficient. What follows are your statements-

        During February 2009, you said-

        "I have been working on a Jesse James Research Grant for several months. Do you mind if I post the wants of the Grant here as it requires the involvement of seven experienced researchers. I was hoping to involve some members of the forum in this until recent happenings occured and do not know if they would be interested or not.
        The project is entitled THE DEFINITIVE REPORT ON THE HISTORY OF JESSE JAMES."

        In December of 2009 you said-

        "I am writing a book but recent events have changed the direction the book is going. A documantary is also in the works.The book I am referring to is a book by a national publishing company that is going to use about a dozen of the images from my collection. It will be cool. I'll let you know when it is available."

        In February 2010 you said-

        "After sending them the partial manuscript THE NEW FACE OF JESSE JAMES they were sold. We look to be signing the contract by summer as soon as the details are worked out and the movie should be out in mid to late 2011 if all goes well."

        In November of 2010 you said in reference to your ridiculous image of Billy, Jesse, Doc, Charlie-

        “The image below from our collection has been selected as the logo of a large clothing company. I have been sent a picture of the logo as it will appear on the clothing. This is very exciting as the exposure will be huge and out in the public for all to see.”

        Greg Ellison., what has become of these projects? I suspect your claims were all braggadocio comments.

        We will give you the benefit of the doubt and with the exception of the “clothing logo” deal consider all of your other projects as FAIL.

        Based on your comments it appears the clothing agreement deal was consummated. Here you clearly and definitively state-

        “The image below from our collection has been selected as the logo of a large clothing company.”

        This means you are surely receiving commissions. I very much doubt you are involved here on a pro bono basis.

        And as you previously claimed;

        “I have never negociated and payment for any thing realted to Jesse James”.

        That Sir is absolutely a lie.

        Good night Mr. Ellison

      • 35.2.5
        John Smith says:

        Jeb,

        You led Betty Duke;s latest shill down the path until he fell on his own sword.

      • 35.2.6
        Greg Ellison says:

        Eric "Jeb" James,

        I made no retraction what so ever and your out of context statements only prove your desperation to stop me. It is really funny watching you jump through hoops doing so!

        All of the things you mention that I have, or had, in the works are true including the clothing deal that I donated the use of the image for. You offered no proof that these things did not happen so I am confused on why you play these games that make you look so silly.

        Some people do things for the enjoyment of others as I do for the enjoyment of others seeing my collection. That is why it is on a public website and in a public museum for all to see. Not everyone is a money hungry grub like you.

        Your sidekick really makes you look bad. His hoop jumping is worse than yours, if that is possible!

        Greg Ellison

  36. 36
    Carol says:

    1.4.5Greg Ellison says:
    2/17/2011 at 4:48 pm
    Carol,

    As you well know the porn was posted by someone you associated with then and I see are associating with here as we speak. Because of an ongoing investigation it was left up so it could be properly gathered by the authorities. Delphi Staff Moderator, Walt Howle, also left up a post addressed to him for the same reason from the same person in which he said that he was going to cut off the head of Walt Howle.

    We all know this person is now here doing the same ranting and manilulating information that he started doing on my forum before he got out of hand and was removed forever! So, you can stop playing your little "I'm innocent" game!

    Greg Ellison

    Didn't strike a nerve did I Ellison. I have to differ with you about the person you say I associate with on here. Not sure who you are speaking of but my game is innocent. I speak the truth. You speak of an on going investigation. Who was arrested so far as it appears Frank Cole is still out there running free. I thought the FBI put people in jail for porn such as what showed up on your site. But not if you are the one who did it? Right? Given your history of using law suits as scare tactics something tells me your are more involved in your own doings than anyone you try to nail this on.

  37. 37
    Dallas Hunt says:

    To those readers unfamiliar with this story. I have continually seen statements like this on here:

    "Why hasn't she tested Sue Laura Hales mtdna against Eldon."

    This question is completely redundant obviously the detractors have no idea about how dNA works. It won't do any good because the type of DNA obtained from a female is mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA) which is the type of DNA everyone of us inherits from our mothers but it is only passed on down the line from female children, it stops with males. So, Sue Laura Hale got her mtDNA from her mother and her mother got it from Susan James Parmer (Jesse's sister) and Susan James Parmer got hers from Zerelda. Now if James Courtney is Jesse James (which he was) then he got his mtDNA from Zerelda and his myDNA would be the same as Sue Laura Hale's. But Eldon's mtDNA is from his mother who did not get her mtDNA from Zerelda. Eldon's great-grandfather is Willie Courtney (James Courtney's first born son) and he did not get his mtDNA from his father but only from his mother as all males and females do. He did get his fathers ydna. So In other words we must have a sample of James Courtney's bone in order to know what his mtDNA sequence is and if it is the same as Sue Hale's whose mtDNA should be the same as Zerelda's. (which it will be)

    Now you get it? Good!

    • 37.1
      Carol says:

      But wouldn't you and Teresa have the same MtDNA that Susan James had if indeed JLC and Susan James were true brothers and sisters having the same mother Zerelda. Why don't you test your Mtdna against Sue Laura Hale and see what the results are. I see why you would need a bone sample for the Ydna but if you are his great granddaugther and you say JLC was Jesse James then you would have the same make up as Sue Laura Hale who got it from Susan James who you say would be the sister of JLC aka Jesse James. Or does this part of the Family tree now involved the JLC tree?

      • 37.1.1
        Dallas Hunt says:

        This is Dallas not Betty so I don't know why you are responding to her in my post. No that would not work the mtdna does not work that way as I just stated in the previous post obviously you didn't read it. Betty would have got her mothers mtdna who got it from her mother Ida, and Ida's mother was Mary Ellon Barron who was married to James Courtney so testing the genetic marker for the female line would not do any good unless you dig up James Courtney and test him. Why do you detractors like to go in circles? We will never give up showing the public the truth about Jesse James y'all all know that right?

      • 37.1.2
        Carol says:

        Dallas
        Please tell me you are not doing research on the family tree for BD!

        You write

        37.1.1Dallas Hunt says:
        2/17/2011 at 9:13 pm
        This is Dallas not Betty so I don't know why you are responding to her in my post. No that would not work the mtdna does not work that way as I just stated in the previous post obviously you didn't read it. Betty would have got her mothers mtdna who got it from her mother Ida, and Ida's mother was Mary Ellon Barron who was married to James Courtney so testing the genetic marker for the female line would not do any good unless you dig up James Courtney and test him. Why do you detractors like to go in circles? We will never give up showing the public the truth about Jesse James y'all all know that right?

        First of all Betty's mother was Dorthy Burt, did you mean to day Bett'y grandmother Ida Courtney?

        Lets mark ole JLC off the slate.

        You would have
        Jesse James married to Mary Ellen Barron
        They would have a daughter named Ida Florence James (Note: Not Courtney)
        Ida would have a daugther by the name of Dorthy Faye Burt.
        Dorthy Faye Burt would have a Daughter by the name of Betty whose last name was Dorsett.

        So Betty got her mother Dorotha's mtdna
        Dorotha got her mothers Ida Florence James (aka Courtney) mtdna
        Ida Florence James got her mother (aka courtney) Mary Ellen Barron's mtdna

        So that won't work.
        BUT!!!!
        Forget about JLC at this point

        Jesse James had a sister by the name of Harriett (aka Courtney) who would have really been a James.Jesse James and Harriett James (aka Courtney) being the real children of Robert and Zerelda James of Clay County, Mo.
        Both Jesse James and Harriett James (aka courtney) would have the same mtdna as Zerelda if they were the real children of Zerelda and Robert James
        Jesse James also has a sister by the name of Susan James Palmer who had a daughter Sue Laura Hale which Ms. Duke owns the dna that she personally took from her. SO that would mean that one of Harriett James (aka Courtney's) daughter or granddaughter should be able to be tested against Ms. Hale's dna.
        Now if you say that Harriett was a Courtney you will blow your own story. As JLC never existed remember. The real Jesse James married Mary Ellen Barron and they had a daughter Harriet James (aka Courtney). So there are living relatives of Ms. Dukes Jesse James fantasy to prove her case. JLC died and there is no reference as to where his body went or where he was burried. Jesse James whom BD claims is her Great Grand Father. all his children and grandchildren would in reality be James surname. Now don't come back and tell me none of the Courtney's are James's. That would really sink her ship.

    • 37.2
      Frank says:

      Sorry, Dallas. That dog don't "hunt". Like the pun? :-)

      Too afraid to get Eldon Courtney to get that dna test, eh? Say, Dallas, Ellison, Betty and aliases — HONESTLY — what are you all so AFRAID of?

      Frauds and imposters have been around since after Jesse's death in 1882. There's always someone out there looking to cash in on his name. This isn't anything new. Where are these changes being made? Try nowhere!

      You'd rather talk a lot of crap you can't back up, ignore scientific evidence, ignore genealogical and census records, photographic evidence, and years of proven documented research instead of actually getting anything done. This is what frauds do best. :-)

      If you had anything, changes would have gone into effect and Jesse's life and death rewritten. So far, none of you imposters haven't gotten your way nor convinced the courts, historians or even the State of Missouri for that matter! When will you ever? Realize what that says about you. Too many holes in your little hoax! It sinks you every time.

      :-)

      http://www.thomaskinkadechico.com/oldsite/notes.htm

      http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~jessejames/jamescourtney.html

      http://www.thomaskinkadechico.com/oldsite/Thomas%20Hudson%20Barron.htm

      http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~jessejames/barron.html

      http://www.andruss.net/courtney.htm

      http://www.ericjames.org/JesseJamesinTexas/index.html

      http://www.thomaskinkadechico.com/oldsite/budtrip.htm

      http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GSln=courtney&GSfn=james&GSmn=l+&GSbyrel=in&GSdyrel=in&GSob=n&GRid=23319153&df=all&amp;

      http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~jessejames/jlcdc.jpg

      http://www.thomaskinkadechico.com/oldsite/jlcdiary.htm

      http://shs.umsystem.edu/famousmissourians/folklegends/james/index.html

      See how easy FACTS are to find? If only the imposters had any. Hoaxes aren't anything to consider in the real world. Shame, shame.

    • 37.3
      Heidi S. says:

      Dallas is right on this. Mitochondrial DNA is only passed through the mother. You cannot get it through your father. The reason for this is that egg cells contain Mitochondria, sperm cells do not.

      I have a degree in biology, and used to work in a Genetics lab.

      Heidi S.

      • 37.3.1
        Greg Ellison says:

        Heidi,

        I totally agree with your comment about Dallas Hunt being correct about the DNA. It is refreshing to here this from a true professional that knows what they are talking about rather than these idiots using fakes names just to promote their lying agendas.

        Greg Ellison

  38. 38
    Frank says:

    More Definitve Proof James Lafayette Courtney was not Jesse James!

    http://genforum.genealogy.com/cgi-bin/print.cgi?james::5434.html

    So much for the Irving Gilmer and Travis Barron photo. Debunked again!

  39. 39
    Frank says:

    A dishonest person won't interest honest people. The Missouri Image Scammer exposes himself yet again. :-)

  40. 40
    Jebediah Smith says:

    This is a travel day for me and I’ll soon be departing from my hotel for the next destination on my itinerary.

    I would like to thank all of you who’ve helped expose Duke and Ellison’s ridiculous claims surrounding the infamous ebay postcard.

    But before I leave I’ll post my final comments for Greg Ellison;

    You sir, have been sorely beaten through a whupping delivered by the likes of Bill Gregg, Rollie Taylor, Fran Bolton, Mel Graf, Sally Goodson, Thomas Jones, Judy, Peter Hubbard , John Smith, Carol, Frank, Jim Stover, Heidi S. and Chuck Rabas

    Mr. Ellison, in grading your performance on this board (a solid F) a final question comes to mind. Where was your support from the Duke family? Do you realize almost 300 comments have been posted there weren't any from Dan Duke and Mrs. Duke has authored only 10 of those? Could it have been Carol’s pointed questions that went directly to the credibility of Betty’s story? And therein lies the ‘aha’ moment. I suspect Duke left the discussion out of concern of losing future sales of her forthcoming book! Good job Carol!

    Incidentally Sparky, some of your recent statements amount to a self portrayal showing you as either delusional or lying;

    “We have bcome the powers that be when it comes to the true verifiable story of Jesse James.”

    “Even the detractors do not waste their time trying to prove the sensationalized version of the unproven life of Jesse James.”

    This is one of my favorite quotes;

    “There are no American Tanks in Baghdad”
    (Baghdad Bob, while Iraqi TV cameras clearly showed several US tanks maneuvering in that city less than a mile from his position.)

    Greg old boy, here’s some free advice. The beating you’ve taken on Betty’s behalf isn’t worth doing for free. If you don’t have some kind of deal in place, you should find an agent and get a ‘piece of the action’.

    And by the way, I AM NOT ERIC JAMES.

    Good day Mr. Ellison.

    • 40.1
      Greg Ellison says:

      Eric "Jeb" James,

      Your exit is expected and welcome.

      Your list of fake names can be condensed down to three or four real names as you well know.

      Betty Duke's supporters said what they needed to say and left the repeated arguements up to the people with the fake names that never stop repeating themselves.

      As you noticed, the people with the fake names turned the conversation into one about me, not the subject at hand which is what you always do. I'm sure many will see that childish part of your demeanor. Betty's new photo has not even been mention in at least 200 of those post.

      The links I posted from your site in post number 18.2.13 explain you very well and your agenda to be related to Jesse James, which you are not and never will be. I do not understand that infactuation by you or anyone else.

      The Jesse James aka James L. Courtney history is the only Jesse James history being discussed on any forums anywhere. That is the telling part of all of this.

      You seem to forget a very important part of this discussion. Wild West Magazine, America's BEST SELLING Western History Magazine looked at the evidence and decided that it was a very important story that their readers should see. They then bumped it up by many months so that it appeared in the magazine only two months after the discovery was made.

      Wild West Magaizine's expertise trumps yours always, Mr. James! I also have a congratulatory email from Bob Boze Bell to go along with the many others I have received.

      Good day,

      Greg Ellison

      • 40.1.1
        Sandra K says:

        Jesse James did, in fact, use the alias of Thomas Howard. The image of a handwritten letter shows the signature of Thos. Howard, with an address of 1318 Lafayette Street, St. Joseph, Missouri, dated March 2nd, 1882 on the following website.

        http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~nefrankl/pics/JamesLtr2.JPG

        Jesse was responding to an advertisement for land near Franklin, Nebraska, which he was thinking of purchasing.

        Bob Ford killed Jesse James at 1318 Lafayette Street, St. Joseph, MO, on April 3, 1882.

      • 40.1.2
        Greg Ellison says:

        Sandy,

        Where in that letter does he say "I am really Jesse James"?

        Greg Ellison

      • 40.1.3
        Sandra K says:

        Sandy? Are we sleeping together, Mr. Ellison? I think not. Call me Sandra.

        Where in the photograph you presented does it state "I am really Jesse James or I am really James Lafayette Courtney?

        Show me where does it say anything like that in any of Betty Duke's so-called research? Fact is you cannot.

        From this timeline, one will see that Jesse James used the name Howard on several occasions for an alias. Tom Howard Dec.24,1881 and also Davis Howard Feb. 1881.

        http://www.legendsofamerica.com/WE-JesseJamesTimeline8.html

        As I recall there is a census with the Alias names that Frank and Jesse James used……No Bigelow, J.Frank Dalton, James L .Courtney or Wood Hite here.

      • 40.1.4
        John Smith says:

        Sandra,
        Rather amazing that a man disputes that Jesse James was killed in 1882 in favor of a fairy tale about a Falls County beekeeper with no facts to support that argument, just hot air.. This is the same "expert" that discovered with his left eye that Frank and Jesse James were in the group photo with Zerelda and Reuben, and then "authenticated" that fact with his right eye under the disguise of "The Jesse James Preservation Trust". What a farce.

      • 40.1.5
        Sandra K says:

        Mr. Ellison aka Straw Man its tragic to see a man with such ignorance and sheer stupidity deny facts. I have provided this blog with historical fact with years of proven research. As did everyone else setting the record straight. You have not. You have not even provided any sort of argument but your opinion.

        The truth of the matter is whatever goal you're trying to reach hasn't changed anything. You are a dishonest person.

      • 40.1.6
        Sandra K says:

        For the record, Mr. Ellison dodged my questions and after reading further responses he has that problem with everyone else. Just so the readers know.

      • 40.1.7
        Sandra K says:

        John I know exactly what you mean. I have heard of this crook before. He won't get far here.

      • 40.1.8
        Greg Ellison says:

        Sandy,

        If your prefer to use your full name as I do I will then address you as such.

        Response to your last four post I ask where is the factual proof that you claim you have posted here? I haven't seen anything posted by your group that comes close to factual proof.

        This comes from an earlier post of mine that you apparently ignored:

        "Even Carol Holmes says it is Frank and Annie in the photo and she is on your team!

        Armand DeGregoris has photos in his collection that match Frank and Annie in the new group photo perfectly. I have copies of them he sent me years ago that I may produce if he doesn't come out with them. He knows the truth.

        The wedding party sitting in front is clearly the focus of the image. Frank James, Annie James and Jesse James. The lady behind Jesse is identified in writing on the back of the photo by Arch Nicholson as being Mrs. Jesse James. Arch Nicholson is the nephew of Jesse James and was born in 1879. See Arch Nicholson's chart below. His grandfather was also a Courtney making an easy segway for Jesse James.

        Betty Duke's Great-Granfather's photos match Jesse James in the group photo. The good people of Wild West Magazine saw this and that is why it is featured in their magazine. So I ask, Why can't you see it?

        Greg Ellison

        Arch Nicholson's father was William A. Nicholson and his mother was Sarah Louisa Samuel (Jesse and Frank's half-sister).

        William A. Nicholson's parents were:

        Father: James Courtney Nicholson b: 17 Jan 1831 in Gerrard, Kentucky, United States
        Mother: Mary Eliza Brockman b: 1 Dec 1833 in Garrard, Kentucky, United States

        William A. Nicholson married first:

        Marriage 1 Mary Catherine Tilger b: 19 Nov 1861 in Missouri, United States
        William A. Nicholson married second:

        Marriage 2 Sarah Louisa Samuel b: 26 Dec 1858 in Kearney, Clay, Missouri, USA
        •Married: 28 Nov 1878 in , Clay, Missouri, USA 1
        William A. Nicholson and Sarah Louisa Samuel's children were as follows:

        Children
        1. James or John Archibald "Arch" Nicholson b: 19 Oct 1879 in , Clay, Missouri, USA
        2. Frank Nicholson b: 31 Mar 1882 in , Clay, Missouri, USA
        3. Frederick Brockman Nicholson b: 9 Nov 1891 in Clay, Missouri, United States"

        There is also a single old posctcard of this image owned by the quantrillguerillas website that is printed on the back of the postcard that it is Jesse James, Frank James and their mother Zerelda James Samuel

        Those are facts!

        Greg Ellison

      • 40.1.9
        Sandra K says:

        "If your prefer to use your full name as I do I will then address you as such."

        Are we still in Kindergarten Mr. Ellison??

        "Response to your last four post I ask where is the factual proof that you claim you have posted here? I haven't seen anything posted by your group that comes close to factual proof. "

        It is provided in the links whereas you have provided nothing. Do you disagree with the State of Missouri? Because they along with every other legitimate and respected historical society do not agree with you.

        These are facts:

        http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~jessejames/jlcdc.jpg

        http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~jessejames/jamescourtney.html

        Regardless of your opinion. They speak over you.

        "Armand DeGregoris has photos in his collection that match Frank and Annie in the new group photo perfectly. I have copies of them he sent me years ago that I may produce if he doesn't come out with them. He knows the truth."

        And does his photos state anywhere "I am Jesse James or I am James Lafayette Courtney"??? Hmmm?

        "The wedding party sitting in front is clearly the focus of the image. Frank James, Annie James and Jesse James. The lady behind Jesse is identified in writing on the back of the photo by Arch Nicholson as being Mrs. Jesse James. Arch Nicholson is the nephew of Jesse James and was born in 1879. See Arch Nicholson's chart below. His grandfather was also a Courtney making an easy segway for Jesse James."

        Frank and Jesse James aren't in the image though. It was taken up to 10 years after Jesse's death.

        http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e1/Jesse_James_dead_01.jpg

        James Lafayette Courtney never knew any in the image let alone been out to the James Farm. You got both men confused with the editor of the Liberty Tribune. Mr. Irving Gilmer.

        http://www.flickr.com/photos/claycountymuseum/3606781103/

        "Betty Duke's Great-Granfather's photos match Jesse James in the group photo. The good people of Wild West Magazine saw this and that is why it is featured in their magazine. So I ask, Why can't you see it? "

        No. They do not. And I'm sure once Wild West Magazine knows the full story they are not going to be too happy getting taken advantage of. There is no provenance for the image. Why can't you provide it?

        "There is also a single old posctcard of this image owned by the quantrillguerillas website that is printed on the back of the postcard that it is Jesse James, Frank James and their mother Zerelda James Samuel

        Those are facts!"

        It was guessed with no provenance attached to it. That is as far as that went. You don't understand facts too well there fella. Silly, silly!

      • 40.1.10
        Greg Ellison says:

        Sandy,

        You said: "I have provided this blog with historical fact with years of proven research."

        Exactly what name where you using when you posted those facts? I have searched this forum and haven't found any historical facts proven by you or your group! Matter of fact, little has been post about Jesse James due to the fact that you are all infactuated with me.

        Greg Ellison

      • 40.1.11
        Sandra K says:

        http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~jessejames/jamescourtney.html

        Facts Mr. Straw Man. Would you prefer them in Braille or not?

      • 40.1.12
        Greg Ellison says:

        TO ALL,

        I HAVE COME TO REALIZE FROM SOME WORDING USED BY SANDRA K. THAT THIS IS THE SAME MAN THAT HAS USED SEVERAL DIFFERENT NAMES ON THIS FORUM AND HAS HARASSED MY FAMILY AND I FOR THE PAST YEAR. I WILL NOT BE ANSWERING ANY QUESTIONS PRESENTED BY THIS PERSON. HE WILL JUST REPEAT HIS SAME OLD NOISE OVER AND OVER.

        Greg Ellison

      • 40.1.13
        John Smith says:

        "SAME OLD NOISE OVER AND OVER."

        Same old noise, Mr. Ellison?? Does this sound familiar??

        "James L. Courtney just disappeared. How can you find somebody that just disappeared?"

        "Frank and Jesse are in the photo. I discovered it, and authenticated it all by myself."

        "Any reasonable individual would ignore facts and realize that census records enumerating James L. Courtney after 1870 are actually enumerating Jesse W. James."

        Mr. Ellison, you belong in a rodeo. You are a champion bull shipper.

      • 40.1.14
        Greg Ellison says:

        TO ALL,

        IN THE COMMENT BELOW THE SAME IS TRUE FOR JOHN SMITH. THERE REALLY ARE ONLY A COUPLE OF PEOPLE POSTING HERE USNING MANY FAKE NAMES AS ANY PERSON WITH COMMON SENSE CAN SEE:

        TO ALL,

        I HAVE COME TO REALIZE FROM SOME WORDING USED BY SANDRA K. THAT THIS IS THE SAME MAN THAT HAS USED SEVERAL DIFFERENT NAMES ON THIS FORUM AND HAS HARASSED MY FAMILY AND I FOR THE PAST YEAR. I WILL NOT BE ANSWERING ANY QUESTIONS PRESENTED BY THIS PERSON. HE WILL JUST REPEAT HIS SAME OLD NOISE OVER AND OVER.

        Greg Ellison

    • 40.2
      John Smith says:

      Jeb,

      Neither of them understand that they are beating a dead horse. Jesse James was killed in 1882.

      J. Frank Dalton is a self-proclaimed fake Jesse James. James L. Courtney, tirelessly promoted by Ms. Duke, is a fake. Jesse James. Jacob Benjamin Gerlts is a fake Jesse James. John James is a fake Jesse James. Jeremiah James is a fake Jesse James.

      • 40.2.1
        Greg Ellison says:

        To all,

        There is absolutely no factual proof that Thomas Howard was Jesse James. When the mother of Jesse James first saw Tom Howard dead she replied "That's not my son"!

        Show us one photo of Tom Howard with any of the James family! You can't because there aren't any!

        However, There is a photo of Jesse James aka James L. Courtney that we all can see in Wild West Magazine, America's BEST SELLING Western History Magazine!

        Greg Ellison

    • 40.3
      Chuck Rabas says:

      Jebediah,
      Well put. To sum it up, Betty's claim is based on wild speculation. It has been destroyed by well-documented evidence. The photo, which she hails as "postive proof" of her story, has been shown to prove just the opposite! Enlisting Gregg as a "Philadelphia lawyer" to defend her was an enormous mistake on Betty's part. The song and dance routine he has displayed here makes it abundantly clear that he cannot defend her claim. The end result of Betty's PR campaign has been to expose both of them as frauds to an even more widespread audience.

      Just as it's true that there are those to whom no conspiricy theory is too far-fetched — who still believe that Elvis faked his death and that JFK is still being kept alive on life-support — there are a few who will embrace Betty's story.

      • 40.3.1
        Greg Ellison says:

        Chuck Rabas,

        I challenge you to provide even one piece of "well-documented evidence" that you have used to destroy Betty's proof. As a self proclaimed expert I'm sure you think you can come up with many so I challenge you to just come up with one.

        I, and many others, will await your "well-documented evidence"!

        Greg Ellison

      • 40.3.2
        Sandra K says:

        http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~jessejames/jamescourtney.html

        Mr. Ellison, do you need this in Braille before you can understand the documented and proven historical facts? Could someone help this poor sob?

      • 40.3.3
        Greg Ellison says:

        Sandy,

        Who ever you are your phoney link means nothing and you know it was put together with lies to try to discredit Betty Duke.

        Here is the truth to that matter and the truth about the detractors genealogist from another post:

        John Smith said: "A rational individual could only conclude that James L. Courtney lived under his birth name for all of his life except for the 4 instances cited above."

        Except for "4 instances"? A rational person would realize that something was really messed up about that genealogy.

        Given the admitted deceptions by your co-genealogist, Fran Bolton and Glynda Campbell, I do not have any need or want to believe any of your so-called research.

        Greg Ellison

      • 40.3.4
        Heidi S. says:

        Regarding Howard as Jesse's alias:

        If you look at the years they were in Tennessee, it is definite that Frank James was B.J. Woodson, because many of the people who knew him as such testified at his trial. We also know that Frank, as B.J. Woodson, associated with a man going by Dave Howard, living with him part of the time. His wife, Annie, and Zee were friends, and Zee even nursed Robert James, Frank's son.

        Also, when people in Nashville saw the death photo of Jesse (Thomas Howard), they recognized him as the same man that had lived among them in Tennessee.

        Also, from Stella James' book, Sarah Samuel Nicholson had a long conversation with Jesse E. James about his father, Jesse, and how bitter she was about the Fords.

        None of this would make any sense if Howard wasn't Jesse.

        Heidi

      • 40.3.5
        Chuck Rabas says:

        Sandra,
        There's an interesting entry in the 1881 Kansas City, Missouri city directory, at which time Jesse is known to be living there. A "Thomas Howard" listed his occupation as laborer on the Chicago & Alton Railroad. Keep in mind that Jesse held up a C&ARR train at Glendale in October of 1879. It's another example of his sense of humor.

      • 40.3.6
        Greg Ellison says:

        Heidi,

        Do you actually have proof of that? No. What you have are stories about Tom Howard and nothing more. You do not have a statement from the real Jesse James saying he was Tom Howard. That is the fact that you can not overcome! Frank's trial is full of people contradicting each other if you have ever really studied it.

        On another subject that I know you are interested in, doesn't it make you wonder why everybody always says that Zerelda James Samuel was 6' tall yet those same people give varing heights for Jesse James? Strange, huh? How could they be so sure about Zerelda yet so different on Jesse James? Just trying to make you think a little.

        Greg Ellison

      • 40.3.7
        Greg Ellison says:

        Chuck Rabas,

        Do you know how many Tom Howards there were in Missouri at the time you speak of, or KC for that matter? It would pay you to find out as it might shock you.

        As a historical researcher your first duty is to find the factual evidence. Given that, you have to admit that not one robbery credited to Jesse James can be factually proven that he participated in. So how do you make the statement: "Keep in mind that Jesse held up a C&ARR train at Glendale in October of 1879. It's another example of his sense of humor"

        Please present your factual proof of your statement!

        Greg Ellison

      • 40.3.8
        Chuck Rabas says:

        RE: 40.3.7
        You continue to flaunt your ignorance as if it were something to be proud of.

        "Do you know how many Tom Howards there were in Missouri at the time you speak of, or KC for that matter?"
        Of course I checked. The Thomas Howard in question was the only one to appear only in 1881. Others from that year appeared in later years as well.

        "…you have to admit that not one robbery credited to Jesse James can be factually proven that he participated in."
        I most certainly do not have to admit any such thing. The most notable example is the Mammoth Cave stagecaoch robbery. Judge Roundtree's watch and a ring belonging to Rountree's daughter were among Jesse's effects at the time of his death. It's true that there is debate as to which robberies he committed, and even how many he did. In spite of that, there are many in which the evidence is convincing. I expect you will try to weasel out by citing the lack of ballistic, fingerprint and DNA evidence.

        "So how do you make the statement: 'Keep in mind that Jesse held up a C&ARR train at Glendale in October of 1879. It's another example of his sense of humor'"
        Having read every local report from the time, as well as the accounts of Ryan's trial, I can make the statement with complete confidence.

      • 40.3.9
        Greg Ellison says:

        Chuck Rabas,

        You are the one doing the ignorance flaunting!

        You have just admitted that you don't know that the Tom Howard you mention was Jesse James!

        You have just admitted that most of the robberies attributed to Jesse James can not be verified.

        I must say that if a person did want to fake his death what better way to do it than plant known items from a judge that they claimed were stolen by Jesse James? That judge happened to be related to him you know? If the governor were in on it I would bet that is the way they would have worked it and did. There is actual proof that the governor took care of the widow and her children after the shooting. Why would he do that?

        You bring up some very good points that you seem to have no answers for!

        Jesse James was never caught and proven to have committed any robbery or murder. I suppose you have proof that he was?

        Greg Ellison

      • 40.3.10
        Fran Bolton says:

        40.3Chuck Rabas says:
        2/21/2011 at 2:36 pm
        "The photo, which she hails as "postive proof" of her story".

        It seems what this boils down to is what some are willing to accept so lightly as proof.
        While others are offering the accepted history of Jesse James' life and death, there is no accepted history of his living in TX after 1871 and past 1882 under the assumed name of James L Courtney to offer.
        James L Courtney did not claim to be Jesse James, someone who used a photo of an unknown man to say it resembles a man in this group photo which has typed on the border " "SUPPOSED to be Jesse James" said he was. "Beieved to be a sister of Frank" was also typed, so how is that positive proof of which sister?
        Whoever typed those names did not have provenance of the photo, "supposed to be and "beieved to be" is not provenance, so there was none to be had by having the winning bid.
        The tintype photo used as James L Courtney to compare to the group photo was denied by the Courtney family who provided a photo of James L Courtney to be included in the book "Families of Falls Co" and did not retrieve it for that reason. After the book was published, others also confirmed the photo was not James L Courtney. Had it been a true photo of Jesse James, they would most certainly have claimed it.
        Scroll down to pg 10 and read under the photo:
        http://www.jessejamesintexas.com/New_Whitsett_Evidence.pdf

        Another photo used as James L Courtney to grace the cover of a book was provided to the author and identified by the provider as Travis Barron, Courtney's brother-in-law.
        http://genforum.com/cgi-bin/pageload.cgi?travis::courtney::815.html
        Excerpt:
        "I have a letter from a niece of Travis Barron, dated April 12, 1977, in which she says: "I have a picture of Uncle Travis and will enclose in this letter." She did enclose the picture, and I made a photocopy of the original. When Betty Duke visited me in 1996, I gave her a copy and identified same as TRAVIS BARRON. Betty used this copy on the cover of her book, and the same picture was used in the 1997 story by Betty in the 1997 issue of Texas Monthly."

        Reseachers who quote the accepted history are not attempting to promote a totally unsubstantiated version of his life and death.
        It makes no difference, Jesse James had a documented life and death at the time, if a researcher cannot locate and recognise that documentation, that does not change the life and death events that took place.
        James L Courtney also had a documented life and death. It does include a couple of instances where he was identified as James L Haun, the surname name his other Courtney family adopted. In every instance where he is identifed as Haun, it was by family members other than himself who referred to him as the name they adopted.
        He wanted to live under his own true name, and he did, by his own hand and identification. He died by the same name he lived by.
        Who would be at peace with themselves for attempting to change his wishes to suit their needs today?

        Fran Bolton

      • 40.3.11
        Greg Ellison says:

        Fran Bolton,

        You said: "Reseachers who quote the accepted history are not attempting to promote a totally unsubstantiated version of his life and death."

        Yes they are because there is no factual evidence that proves that "accepted history"!

        Ted Yeatman stated in the preface that he wrote his book as a narrative, why, because he realized after twenty-five years of research that he could not prove any of the story with factual evidence, and he is your hero!

        Now you want to claim you can?

        Greg Ellison

      • 40.3.12
        Fran Bolton says:

        40.3Chuck Rabas says:

        "To sum it up, Betty's claim is based on wild speculation. It has been destroyed by well-documented evidence."

        Someone commented here:"There is also a single old postcard of this image owned by the quantrillguerillas website that is printed on the back of the postcard that it is Jesse James, Frank James and their mother Zerelda James Samuel Those are facts!"

        Yes, that is a fact that a postcard company can print anything on their cards they chose. The fact that it says "Information on the identity of the remainder is welcome" says the card company did not have the full story of the photo.
        That is a fact for this comment section of the group photo today.
        I can say the persons are whoever I want them to be, but does that make it a proven fact? NO!

        Amelia Earhart

  41. 41
    Williams says:

    Mr. Ellison's reputation proceeds him. I call fraud.

    • 41.1
      Greg Ellison says:

      Williams,

      A man with integrity will always use the full name when making accusations against a living, breathing human being.

      A man of NO integrity will always hide behind a fake name while condemning a living, breathing human being as you have just done.

      I would like to thank you for proving exactly what kind of man you are so everybody can take note of the evidence you provided that you are a man of NO integrity.

      Greg Ellison

    • 41.2
      Greg Ellison says:

      "We write not for morons, but for minds capable of calm analysis." Robertus Love, The Rise and Fall of Jesse James

      Greg Ellison

      • 41.2.1
        John Smith says:

        Greg,

        Robertus Love was not writing for you, since you are incapable of calm analysys, ignorant of facts, and blessed with an abundance of erroneous opinions. You really love to see your name in print, since you sign every message even though your name is in the header.

      • 41.2.2
        Greg Ellison says:

        I sign my name because it is my name, unlike that majority of posters here under assumed names!

        "We write not for morons, but for minds capable of calm analysis." Robertus Love, The Rise and Fall of Jesse James

        Greg Ellison

  42. 42
    Sandra K says:

    it looks like Greg Ellison and Betty Duke are trying to pull a fast one on Wild West Magazine.

    • 42.1
      Greg Ellison says:

      Sandy,

      Nobody pulled a fast one. Are calling Wild West stupid? They were given the information and made the decision themselves to run the article because they believed there was merit in it and their readers would enjoy it. In fact, they are excited about it! From the emails I have received I think they were right on track!

      Greg Ellison

      • 42.1.1
        John Smith says:

        Mr. Ellison,
        Ms. Duke has wasted the last 10 years of her life in a futile campaign to raise doubts about the life of Jesse James; his marriage, his children, his death, his DNA results. Of course there are gaps in the knowledge of his life, and not everything will ever be known about his participation in robberies attributed to him, or about the guerrilla actions in which he participated. Nothing about the life of Jesse James has any bearing on the life of James Lafayette Courtney, which is well documented by census records, the diary of James Lafayette Courtney, the letters of James Lafayette Courtney, and other documents.

        Ms. Duke has deliberately avoided the central issue of her claim. She has not and can not present any evidence that James L. Courtney was Jesse James. He named one horse “Johnny” and another horse “Reb”. A very feeble and laughable proof. Strong evidence? Strong, only in the sense that it stinks. He lay down on the floor at night with a gun when anyone approached the house. Was she there, is it documented, or is this more hearsay? If true, what does it prove? There were residents of Falls county that might have had the same surname as some Missouri guerrillas. So what does that prove? Where is the proof that they were the same men? Just more hearsay. Ms. Duke has claimed that James L. Courtney permanently assumed the identity of James L. Haun. Where’s the proof? There is none. Sure, he is identified as James Haun in the 1870 census; in the estate proceedings of his father, A. J. Haun in 1882; the Request for Letters of Administration of his mother, Ms. D. D. Haun in 1917. That only proves that James Lafayette Courtney was living in 1917, consistent with the letter written to his first cousin describing his visit to is 96 year old “ma”. Zerelda died at age 86.

        Don’t even suggest that the group photo proves anything other than Ms. Duke blew $1,000.

        Are you really so naïve that you believe the myth spun by Ms. Duke?

  43. 43
    Greg Ellison says:

    It has become apparent through the Wild West comment section that the main interest in Jesse James is now the story of Jesse James aka James L. Courtney. No other Jesse James discussion garners as much interest as this story and it is easy to see why.

    Even the detractors know that Jesse James aka James L. Courtney has become more popular than the worn out traditional story of Jesse James and they are actually helping that come to reality.

    Even the detractors do not waste their time trying to prove the sensationalized version of the unproven life of Jesse James.

    Even the detractors are on the Wild West comment section because they realize that the traditional story of the life of Jesse James is about to crumble through their fingers and there is nothing they can do about it.

    Even the detractors are making exuses for Eric James and his fake "James Preservation Trust" propping it up as important when it isn't and it means nothing to anybody. Even The Jesse James Farm and Museum doesn't believe in it or recommend anything about it.

    Even the detractors have forgotten that other forums have rules against talking about us or our proof but that is all they have done for the past few months and will from now on, guaranteed. We have become the powers that be when it comes to the true verifiable story of Jesse James. All of their discussions are led by us and what we are doing and talking about and they can not deny that. The proof of that is on their forums for everyone to see.

    Thanks to everyone that is continueing to make this happen,

    Greg Ellison

    • 43.1
      Greg Ellison says:

      COMMENTS 44, 45, 46, AND 47 MADE BY "GREG ELLISON" WERE NOT MADE BY ME, THE REAL GREG ELLISON.

      It is very obvious that they were made by the person that has threatened my family and I and continues to harass me here on this forum. If he were a REAL MAN he would contact me privately through my private email instead of making a complete fool of himself in front of everybody!

      I apologize to all for his childish behavior,

      Greg Ellison

      • 43.1.1
        Greg Ellison says:

        COMMENTS 43.1 MADE BY "GREG ELLISON" WERE NOT MADE BY ME, THE REAL GREG ELLISON.

        It is very obvious that they were made by the person that has threatened my family and I and continues to harass me here on this forum. If he were a REAL MAN he would contact me privately through my private email instead of making a complete fool of himself in front of everybody! How big are your balls Frank? Mine are bigger!

        I apologize to all for his childish behavior,

        Greg Ellison

  44. 44
    Greg Ellison says:

    The detractors can cry like babies all they want to with their false stories. Why don't they f^ck off already? Wild West Magazine is keeping the story and the image regardless of documentation! Get it? Gooood!

    Greg Ellison

  45. 45
    Greg Ellison says:

    Sandy,

    You and the rest of the women here can run with those losers with their fake names. Wild West Magazine is onto their little games. John Smith and Eric "Jeb" James wouldn't know their head from their asses. Burn baby burn!

    Greg Ellison

  46. 46
    Greg Ellison says:

    Anymore violations to my blog and the detractors will be looking at some jail time. Mark my words, MelG! You little sissy!

    Greg Ellison

  47. 47
    Greg Ellison says:

    John Smith,

    If there is any problem with this story getting published we'll all know who to blame. I'll be coming for you to!

    Greg Ellison

  48. 48
  49. 49
    Sandra K says:

    Correct you are Heidi.

  50. 50
    Fran Bolton says:

    I have read claims here by someone who says elsewhere he should have been a lawyer for his skills in getting the upper hand by using common sense, that the wedding of Frank James and Annie Ralston was the focus of the group photo.
    We hear from knowledgeable readers about DNA, etc, so I would like to ask any reader knowledgeable in wedding etiquette if the bride in her wedding dress would be ever seated on the ground, while others enjoy the luxury of being seated in chairs behind her?
    I am not a wedding planner, but my common sense tells me if a 3-tier seating arrangement was necessary the bride and groom would be seated in the center on the photo if they were the focus, and others would be seated on the ground at their feet, not vice versa.

    Fran Bolton

    • 50.1
      Greg Ellison says:

      Fran,

      That is too funny! I see you have been reading my forum again. My forum is very interesting to say the least, right? Many new members and some are family related to individuals in the new image and have identified them as being so. You can't beat that for evidence!

      Now to the wedding, what is your reasoning for the two men seated on the ground wearing flowers while none of the other men are and all of the other women wearing flowers except one, the woman sitting on the ground. One man and one woman on the front row are wearing white, the Bride and Groom, while the other man is wearing a dark suit, the Best Man. I've used my common sense and my common sense tells me the front row is the wedding party. It was a casual wedding and very family oriented so I don't think who was sitting on the ground was much of a concern. How about you?

      Greg Ellison

      BTW, Betty had a clothing expert look at the photo and her first comment was " Well, it is a wedding."

  51. 51
    William Miller says:

    Hello there Mister Ellison. I haven't seen you since you got kicked off of Gen Forum! And now here you are right in the middle of trouble again.

    Now I don't know much about this photo except for what you've been claiming and what I've seen with my own two eyes. In your opinion that's Jesse, Frank and Annie Samuel. In my opinion that doesn't look anything like them.

    What proof, not opinions, have you got to back-up your claim?

    • 51.1
      Greg Ellison says:

      Eric James,

      You were kicked off of the Genforum at the same time the rest of us were and it was proven that you are Eric James so stop lying to people.

      You don't know much about any photos as proven on your website so I understand your "own two eyes" and how they deceive you!

      Greg Ellison

      • 51.1.1
        William Miller says:

        You also tried to call me Eric is past spring. Mister Ellison, my given name is WILLIAM.

        Now stop trying to change the subject. What proof, not opinions like"It looks like them to me" have you got to back-up your claim that Jesse, Frank and Annie are in that picture?

      • 51.1.2
        Greg Ellison says:

        I called you "Eric is past spring"? I didn't call you that but I do agree with that statement!

        Greg Ellison

  52. 52
    Sandra K says:

    Thank you for sharing Mr. Rabas. No doubt about it. Jesse James did in fact use the alias Thomas Howard.

    Now if only someone could help the deaf, dumb and blind man that started this blog….

    • 52.1
      Greg Ellison says:

      Sandy,

      I HAVE COME TO REALIZE FROM SOME WORDING USED BY YOU THAT YOU ARE THE SAME MAN THAT HAS USED SEVERAL DIFFERENT NAMES ON THIS FORUM AND HAS HARASSED MY FAMILY AND I FOR THE PAST YEAR. I WILL NOT BE ANSWERING ANY QUESTIONS PRESENTED BY THIS PERSON. YOU WILL JUST REPEAT YOUR SAME OLD NOISE OVER AND OVER.

      Greg Ellison

  53. 53
    Peter Hubbard says:

    You said in your own words about this picture postcard "Do you actually have proof of that? No."

    That sums up your argument perfectly.

    Who identified the people in the image?

    You still have only your opinion and no provenance.

    Give the readers of Wild West Magazine, America's BEST SELLING Western History Magazine proof that Jesse is in the photo.

    Give give the readers of Wild West Magazine, America's BEST SELLING Western History Magazine proof that Frank and Annie are in this picture.

    Give give the readers of Wild West Magazine, America's BEST SELLING Western History Magazine proof with footnotes and sources about how you dated this image.

    Do some research and offer the readers of Wild West Magazine, America's BEST SELLING Western History Magazine some proof to support your opinion!

    • 53.1
      Greg Ellison says:

      Mr. Hubbard,

      Do you think lying about what I said proves your points?

      The postcard actually identified Jesse and Frank James along with their mother as being in the photo.

      The real readers of Wild West Magazine are fine with the photo as I have received many emails through my site form them.

      The real readers of Wild West Magazine are very smart and visual and do not fall for your trickery or the trickery of your litlle lying group.

      Nice try though!

      Greg Ellison

      • 53.1.1
        Peter Hubbard says:

        Give give the readers of Wild West Magazine, America's BEST SELLING Western History Magazine proof that Frank and Annie are in this picture.

        Give give the readers of Wild West Magazine, America's BEST SELLING Western History Magazine proof with footnotes and sources about how you dated this image.

        Do some research and offer the readers of Wild West Magazine, America's BEST SELLING Western History Magazine some proof to support your opinion!

      • 53.1.2
        Peter Hubbard says:

        "The postcard actually identified Jesse and Frank James along with their mother as being in the photo."

        Who made that identification?

      • 53.1.3
        Peter Hubbard says:

        Who identified the people in the image?

        Give the readers of Wild West Magazine, America's BEST SELLING Western History Magazine proof that Jesse is in the photo.

        Give give the readers of Wild West Magazine, America's BEST SELLING Western History Magazine proof that Frank and Annie are in this picture.

        Give give the readers of Wild West Magazine, America's BEST SELLING Western History Magazine proof with footnotes and sources about how you dated this image.

        Do some research and offer the readers of Wild West Magazine, America's BEST SELLING Western History Magazine some proof to support your opinion!

      • 53.1.4
        Greg Ellison says:

        Mr. Hubbard,

        Why do you think lying about what I said proves your points?

        The postcard actually identified Jesse and Frank James along with their mother as being in the photo.

        The real readers of Wild West Magazine are fine with the photo as I have received many emails through my site form them.

        The real readers of Wild West Magazine are very smart and visual and do not fall for your trickery or the trickery of your litlle lying group.

        Nice try though!

        Greg Ellison

      • 53.1.5
        Peter Hubbard says:

        Is it that you're just allergic to truth and honesty?
        The readers here want the truth, not opinions or conjecture!

        Who identified the people in the image?

        Give the readers of Wild West Magazine, America's BEST SELLING Western History Magazine proof that Jesse is in the photo.

        Give give the readers of Wild West Magazine, America's BEST SELLING Western History Magazine proof that Frank and Annie are in this picture.

        Give give the readers of Wild West Magazine, America's BEST SELLING Western History Magazine proof with footnotes and sources about how you dated this image.

        Do some research and offer the readers of Wild West Magazine, America's BEST SELLING Western History Magazine some proof to support your opinion!

  54. 54
    Fran Bolton says:

    Wild West article, March 08, 2007 :
    http://www.historynet.com/jesse-jamess-assassination-and-the-ford-boys.htm/1
    "This article was written by Ted P. Yeatman. Ted Yeatman is considered one of the nation's foremost authorities on the James brothers. This article originally appeared in the December 2006 issue of Wild West magazine."

    Fran Bolton

    • 54.1
      Fran Bolton says:

      Excerpt from Wild West article by Ted Yeatman:

      http://www.historynet.com/jesse-jamess-assassination-and-the-ford-boys.htm/1
      AFTER THE ASSASSINATION
      Indeed there had been a full coroner's inquest, an autopsy and photographs taken of the corpse. The body was taken to Kearney, Mo., for burial in the yard at the farm where Jesse had been born. The Fords had been taken into custody and lodged in jail. Wood Hite's body was dug from the Harbison place when someone got the idea that there was a reward, only to discover that, as with Jesse, it was for his capture.
      There was considerable commotion over the killing of Jesse for the next several months as newspapers found that, in death as well as life, he could sell papers.

      Fran Bolton

  55. 55
    Sandra K says:

    Huh? You shouldn't post here until you are sober Mr. Ellison. Thank you for ignoring facts and dodging everyone's questions again. It's soooo telling!

  56. 56
    Sandra K says:

    "Who identified the people in the image?

    Give the readers of Wild West Magazine, America's BEST SELLING Western History Magazine proof that Jesse is in the photo.

    Give give the readers of Wild West Magazine, America's BEST SELLING Western History Magazine proof that Frank and Annie are in this picture.

    Give give the readers of Wild West Magazine, America's BEST SELLING Western History Magazine proof with footnotes and sources about how you dated this image.

    Do some research and offer the readers of Wild West Magazine, America's BEST SELLING Western History Magazine some proof to support your opinion!"

    As a reader and subscriber to Wild West Magazine I would like this addressed and answered as well. It seems Mr. Ellison is only capable of making excuses and running from any real answers. I think the term "snake-oil salesman" is suitable for Mr. Ellison.

  57. 57
    Fran Bolton says:

    Wild West article, October 19, 2006 , written by William Preston Mangum II and originally appeared in the August 2003 issue of Wild West magazine:

    http://www.historynet.com/the-james-younger-gang-and-their-circle-of-friends.htm

    "By the early 1870s, Frank and Jesse were also going to Saratoga Springs, N.Y., and Long Branch, N.J., (Monmouth Park racetrack opened near there on July 30, 1870) to run their thoroughbreds. A picture of Jesse was taken at the Long Branch resort. Records in Kirk's Guide to the Turf show Jesse James' horse Skyrocket, which was foaled on April 12, 1873, near Midway, Ky., raced at Monmouth Park in 1875-76. "

    Fran Bolton

    • 57.1
      Sandra K says:

      Great articles, Fran. Mr. Ellison took enough of a beating I think. He's truly a worthless human being.

      • 57.1.1
        Greg Ellison says:

        Old articles preceeding the new photos prove nothing. The new evidence is what all proof must be based on from this point on. All good researchers understand that and agree with it!

        Greg Ellison

      • 57.1.2
        Frank says:

        There is no new evidence. No provenance or documentation.

        Any "researcher" or historian understands that and agrees with that fact.

        You lose, fraud.

      • 57.1.3
        Greg Ellison says:

        To ALL,

        The discovery by Dallas Hunt that the 1921 Quantrell Reunion photo includes Jesse James aka James L. Courtney is undeniable. The reunion photo also includes Harry S. Truman as anyone who isn't blind can see.

        That photo along with the newly discovered image of the James family with Zerelda James sitting in the center of the image are great and important finds to any serious researcher of Jesse James.

        Anyone who doesn't see this and recognize it isn't being honest with themselves or the public in general and are showing themselves for what they really are, dishonest!

        Greg Ellison

      • 57.1.4
        John Smith says:

        Mr. Ellison,

        I believe I hear the wind blowing in one of your ears and out the other.

      • 57.1.5
        Sally Goodson says:

        In 1921, Harry Truman was 37 years old. How does the man look in the reunion picture?

      • 57.1.6
        Judy says:

        Good point Sally, the man in the reunion picture with the glasses(that's who they claim is Truman) looks much older than 37. He looks to be more in his late 60's early 70's. I guess Mr. Ellison should worry more about those numbers instead of how many kids Heidi has. He thinks he's embarrassing people but he's only embarrassing himself.

      • 57.1.7
        Greg Ellison says:

        It is humorous to see Sally and Judy's comments about Harry Truman's looks. Everybody that has studied his likeness knows that he looked virtually the same from the time he was a young man until the day he died.

        Judy,

        Heidi is the one that talks about her kids all the time on the forums. I just suggest that may be the reason for some of the errors she has posted. I could certainly understand that as a distraction. I suppose that simple solutions to her errors is to complicated for you to understand as you seem to pick at everything due to your lack of understanding!

        Why do you all feel the need to defend Heidi? She is a grown woman and has chosen to make statements on this forum. I would hope she can defend herself!

        Greg Ellison

  58. 58
    Fran Bolton says:

    Jesse James and the Gads Hill Train Holdup. Published June 12, 2006 This article was written by Ronald H. Beights and originally appeared in the June 2005 issue of Wild West:

    http://www.historynet.com/jesse-james-and-the-gads-hill-train-holdup.htm

    "The woodcutter, it turned out, had not discovered Jesse James' lost treasure after all, but only a crumbling book, a rusty old rifle with a rotten, worm-eaten stock and some 2-cent pieces (the oldest dated 1886, four years after Jesse's death). He was surprised himself to learn he had found $100,000. 'Only thing I ever told about,' he said, 'was finding the gun and a few coins.' The poor fellow was apparently not to blame for the wild exaggeration. It was, as one newspaper put it, 'merely the workings of normal backyard gossip.'

    And so the story, like so many other debunked myths surrounding Jesse James, was laid to rest. On October 8, 1948, the St. Louis Globe-Democrat printed a final article that poked fun at the whole affair. Its headline appropriately read: "JESSE FIZZLES AGAIN"

    Fran Bolton

  59. 59
    Fran Bolton says:

    When the James Gang Ruled the Rails
    Wild West | Published: June 12, 2006
    http://www.historynet.com/when-the-james-gang-ruled-the-rails.htm

    This article was written by Donald L. Gilmore and originally appeared in the August 2000 issue of Wild West magazine.

    Fran Bolton

  60. 60
    Fran Bolton says:

    Thanks to Glynda Alston Campbell for posting the link to the Wild West article by Ted Yeatman on a Jesse James Delphi forum.
    That led to my posting links to other Jesse James articles from the archives of Wild West magazine.
    If Wild West has stance on whether or not Jesse was killed in 1882, it was not stated on either of the articles I posted links to.
    I like this comment from a newspaper when they proved how a story of supposed Jesse James buried treasure was just a story passed around and down much like neighborhood gossip, similar to that we are reading about today:
    "Jesse Fizzles Again!"

    Fran Bolton

  61. 61
    Heidi S. says:

    The new photos mean nothing. There is no real proof it is Jesse James in the photos.

    Heidi

    • 61.1
      Greg Ellison says:

      Heidi,

      It is identified on the edge of the photo as Jesse James and there is an old postcard of the same image that is printed on the back of the postcard that it is Jesse and Frank James with their mother Zerelda. The postcard was printed many, many years ago and was unknown to Betty or I when we discovered that her Great Grandad was in the photo.

      You can lie all you want to the good people of Wild West Magazine but those are facts that you can not deny! The proof is there for your eyes to see!

      Greg Ellison

      • 61.1.1
        John Smith says:

        Mr. Ellison,

        Perhaps you are confused about the meaning of these 3 words:

        fact (f kt)
        n.
        1. Knowledge or information based on real occurrences: an account based on fact;
        2.
        a. Something demonstrated to exist or known to have existed
        b. A real occurrence; an event

        claim (kl m)
        5. A statement of something as a fact; an assertion of truth

        hear•say (hîr s )
        n.
        1. Unverified information heard or received from another; rumor.

      • 61.1.2
        Greg Ellison says:

        Fact:

        Photos contain their own facts as this photo does. There is no doubt this is a James family gathering as seen in the photo. That is a fact! This photo represents a real occurence that did exist.

        Claim:

        Betty Duke and I claim it is Zerelda James Samuel with her husband Reuben, Frank James and his wife, Jesse James and his wife and several Jackson family members based on facts presented in the photo.

        Hearsay:

        Jesse James was killed in St. Joseph Missouri in 1882!

        Greg Ellison

    • 61.2
      Frank says:

      The postcard stated "I think it's Jesse and Frank". "Think" doesn't hold any water. Where is the proven documentation and provenance for the photo?

      There's your sign!

      The man they think is Jesse James is actually this man on the porch -

      http://www.flickr.com/photos/claycountymuseum/3606781103/

      Jesse had been dead for almost 10 years when Mr. Gilmer got his photo taken in that misidentified image Ellison brought here.

      Just ask The State of Missouri -

      http://shs.umsystem.edu/famousmissourians/folklegends/james/index.html
      http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e1/Jesse_James_dead_01.jpg

      James Lafayette Courtney never knew the James family. Still nothing changes and the history of the two men stay the same. I wonder why?

      :-)

    • 61.3
      Greg Ellison says:

      Heidi,

      It was identified as Jesse James many, many years ago as seen on the postcard.

      Front and back of the postcard:

      http://www.jessejamesintexas.com/EbayPostcardBack.jpg

      http://www.jessejamesintexas.com/EbayPostcard.jpg

      Nuff Said!

      Greg Ellison

      • 61.3.1
        Frank says:

        "Greg Ellison: Give the readers some facts;

        Who identified the people in the image?

        Give the readers of Wild West Magazine, America's BEST SELLING Western History Magazine proof that Jesse is in the photo.

        Give give the readers of Wild West Magazine, America's BEST SELLING Western History Magazine proof that Frank and Annie are in this picture.

        Give give the readers of Wild West Magazine, America's BEST SELLING Western History Magazine proof with footnotes and sources about how you dated this image.

        Do some research and offer the readers of Wild West Magazine, America's BEST SELLING Western History Magazine some proof to support your opinion!"

        The postcard isn't considered provenance. Not "nuff said" after all!

  62. 62
    William Miller says:

    Mister Ellison,

    Almost 24 hours ago I put this message on this discussion and you seem to be ignoring it;

    "You also tried to call me Eric is past spring. Mister Ellison, my given name is WILLIAM.

    Now stop trying to change the subject. What proof, not opinions like"It looks like them to me" have you got to back-up your claim that Jesse, Frank and Annie are in that picture?"

    • 62.1
      Greg Ellison says:

      Eric,

      There is more proof for this photo than you can claim on any other photo of Jesse James and that proof has been discussed at length on this forum. If you are incapable of reading the other post I feel sorry for you!

      If you're merely here out of spite and are refusing any and all proof then you are holding true to your reputation!

      Greg Ellison

      • 62.1.1
        Peter Hubbard says:

        "There is more proof for this photo than you can claim on any other photo of Jesse James and that proof has been discussed at length on this forum."

        Good lord man, what proof? You've presented nothing more than your opinion (which has absolutely no credentials supporting it and absolutely no credibility) to the readers of this board. Wise up- people here want facts not fantasies!

        If we wanted western fiction we'd read Louie L'Amour or Zane Grey, not your make believe stories being presented as facts! When we read a novel we know it's fiction. But you're trying to tell us your fiction is fact. Stop trying to shine us Ellison.

        Greg Ellison: Give the readers some facts;

        Who identified the people in the image?

        Give the readers of Wild West Magazine, America's BEST SELLING Western History Magazine proof that Jesse is in the photo.

        Give give the readers of Wild West Magazine, America's BEST SELLING Western History Magazine proof that Frank and Annie are in this picture.

        Give give the readers of Wild West Magazine, America's BEST SELLING Western History Magazine proof with footnotes and sources about how you dated this image.

        Do some research and offer the readers of Wild West Magazine, America's BEST SELLING Western History Magazine some proof to support your opinion!

      • 62.1.2
        Greg Ellison says:

        I repeat for the repeat offenders:

        Eric,

        There is more proof for this photo than you can claim on any other photo of Jesse James and that proof has been discussed at length on this forum. If you are incapable of reading the other post I feel sorry for you!

        If you're merely here out of spite and are refusing any and all proof then you are holding true to your reputation!

        Greg Ellison

  63. 63
    John Smith says:

    Mr. Ellison,

    A review of your plethora of comments has produced one verifiable statement that is a fact.
    1. James Lafayette Courtney was a Yankee bugle blower.

    I might have overlooked one. Have you made another claim which can be verified as fact.

    Thank you.

    • 63.1
      Greg Ellison says:

      James L. Courtney was a Yankee bugle blower up until he disappeared in 1870. After that Jesse James assumed his name and lived amongst Confederates and Guerillas in Blevins, Texas. Would a Yankee bugle blower have done that? No!

      Many have proven that the census after 1870 does not support the facts of James L. Courtney! If fact, the census proves the deceptions!

      Greg Ellison

      • 63.1.1
        John Smith says:

        Mr. Ellison,

        You still do not understand the difference between fact, claim, and hearsay.

        It is a fact James Lafayette Courtney was a bugle blower.

        It is a fact that James L. Courtney lived under his birth name in Falls County TX.

        Please provide just one comment that is a verifiable fact that proves Jesse James and Frank James are in the group photo.
        Thank you.

        It is hearsay that

      • 63.1.2
        Greg Ellison says:

        It is not a fact the James L. Courtney lived under his birth name after 1870 and you can't prove that he did due to the name change that occured in 1870 in Kansas, not Texas!

        That is hearsay and you are the one using it!

        Greg Ellison

      • 63.1.3
        John Smith says:

        Mr. Ellison

        Your words:
        :James L. Courtney was a Yankee bugle blower up until he disappeared in 1870. After that Jesse James assumed his name and lived amongst Confederates and Guerillas in Blevins, Texas. Would a Yankee bugle blower have done that? No!

        Many have proven that the census after 1870 does not support the facts of James L. Courtney! If fact, the census proves the deceptions!"

        DOCUMENTED FACT:
        1871 – Warranty Deed dated 7 April 1871. James L. Courtney of Miami County, Kansas sold land to William P. Ashby of Johnson County, Missouri.

        DOCUMENTED FACT
        1882 – James L. Courtney wrote that “Paw” came to see him 28 September 1882 and left for home 13 October. The obituary of Andrew J. Haun notes that he had been on a trip to visit friends in Missouri and Texas, and had returned home October 15.

        DOCUMENTED FACT
        1888 – Bill of Sale for one jack, dated October 1888, Notarized by F. M. Griggs, 20 December 1888, from E. V. Hairston to James L. Courtney, for his brother, R. W. Courtney.

        DOCUMENTED FACT
        1916 – James L. Courtney, in a 1916 letter to his 1st cousin, Mary E. Taylor, wrote that he had recently visited “ma”, his mother, stating that she was then 96 year old. (Zerelda Cole James Samuel, mother of JWJ, died in 1911 at age 86)

        DOCUMENTED FACT
        1928 – Robert W. Haun, brother of James L. Courtney died 28 March 1928 in Pawnee County , Oklahoma . His obituary lists among his survivors, two brothers, T. N. of Parkersville, Kansas, and J. L., of Troy, Texas , the residence of James L. Courtney since 1871 except for a brief period homesteading land in Lubbock County, Texas .

        Mr. Ellison, do you have a part time job inflating hot air balloons?

        Thank you

      • 63.1.4
        Greg Ellison says:

        Your comments are silly at best. I should refer to them more as laughable!

        You said: "1928 – Robert W. Haun, brother of James L. Courtney died 28 March 1928 in Pawnee County , Oklahoma."

        You claim they are brothers yet they have different names fifty-eight years after the 1870 census! Why would one keep that name while another did not! Fran even sees your mishap and is trying to defend your inconsistant data and thinking.

        After the 1870 census it is all open to interpretation at that is why it is not "FACT"!

        Boy were're having fun now!

        Greg Ellison

  64. 64
    Frank says:

    Still no documentation or provenance. Just a lot of empty rhetoric from the blatant fraud and blowhard. No history changed by a misidentified image at all. Irving Gilmer can't help you. There's your sign!

    James L. Courtney himself debunks the fraudulent claim.

    http://www.thomaskinkadechico.com/oldsite/notes.htm

    I love it.

    • 64.1
      Greg Ellison says:

      Irving Gilmer isn't going to help anybody as he isn't in the photo. I'm just waiting for Chuck Rabas and Armand DeGregoris to publicly announce that he is in the photo just so I can blow there theory out of the water. They have him on the back row while Fran, Sally, Rollie and Glynda have him on the front row. They should really get together on that. He can't be in both places but that's "professional researchers" for you!

      That's the same thing you said the last time you claimed to have killed me off Frank, Ha! No wonder the others are treating you like a polecat on here!

      Greg Ellison

      • 64.1.1
        Frank says:

        Correction: Irving Gilmer and James L. Courtney isn't help "you". After all, you still have no documentation or provenance for the photo in question!

        :-)

        Your "theory" amounts to nothing as you have no evidence to support your claims as EVERYONE pointed out and proven.

        You humiliated yourself again for all to see. Yet again you provide a clown-show for the historical community.

        Come back when you have some sources or anything proving your lies. Thus far, you're still falling waaay behind, crook. :-)

      • 64.1.2
        Frank says:

        "Greg Ellison: Give the readers some facts;

        Who identified the people in the image?

        Give the readers of Wild West Magazine, America's BEST SELLING Western History Magazine proof that Jesse is in the photo.

        Give give the readers of Wild West Magazine, America's BEST SELLING Western History Magazine proof that Frank and Annie are in this picture.

        Give give the readers of Wild West Magazine, America's BEST SELLING Western History Magazine proof with footnotes and sources about how you dated this image.

        Do some research and offer the readers of Wild West Magazine, America's BEST SELLING Western History Magazine some proof to support your opinion!"

        It's embarrassing for you to come up so short all the time, Image Scammer.

        ;-)

      • 64.1.3
        Frank says:

        http://www.flickr.com/photos/claycountymuseum/3606781103/

        So much for Jesse James, Travis Barron and James L. Courtney.

        Irving Gilmer it is!

        :-)

      • 64.1.4
        Greg Ellison says:

        It's not Gilmer!

        "Even Carol Holmes says it is Frank and Annie in the photo and she is on your team!

        Armand DeGregoris has photos in his collection that match Frank and Annie in the new group photo perfectly. I have copies of them he sent me years ago that I may produce if he doesn't come out with them. He knows the truth.

        The wedding party sitting in front is clearly the focus of the image. Frank James, Annie James and Jesse James. The lady behind Jesse is identified in writing on the back of the photo by Arch Nicholson as being Mrs. Jesse James. Arch Nicholson is the nephew of Jesse James and was born in 1879. See Arch Nicholson's chart below. His grandfather was also a Courtney making an easy segway for Jesse James.

        Betty Duke's Great-Granfather's photos match Jesse James in the group photo. The good people of Wild West Magazine saw this and that is why it is featured in their magazine. So I ask, Why can't you see it?

        Greg Ellison

        Arch Nicholson's father was William A. Nicholson and his mother was Sarah Louisa Samuel (Jesse and Frank's half-sister).

        William A. Nicholson's parents were:

        Father: James Courtney Nicholson b: 17 Jan 1831 in Gerrard, Kentucky, United States
        Mother: Mary Eliza Brockman b: 1 Dec 1833 in Garrard, Kentucky, United States

        William A. Nicholson married first:

        Marriage 1 Mary Catherine Tilger b: 19 Nov 1861 in Missouri, United States
        William A. Nicholson married second:

        Marriage 2 Sarah Louisa Samuel b: 26 Dec 1858 in Kearney, Clay, Missouri, USA
        •Married: 28 Nov 1878 in , Clay, Missouri, USA 1
        William A. Nicholson and Sarah Louisa Samuel's children were as follows:

        Children
        1. James or John Archibald "Arch" Nicholson b: 19 Oct 1879 in , Clay, Missouri, USA
        2. Frank Nicholson b: 31 Mar 1882 in , Clay, Missouri, USA
        3. Frederick Brockman Nicholson b: 9 Nov 1891 in Clay, Missouri, United States"

        Greg Ellison

      • 64.1.5
        Frank says:

        You've been claiming "death threats" ever since you got exposed for scamming people. The readers understand common sense, even if you don't.

        I'm not the one perpetrating a hoax with misidentified images and causing trouble here with baseless rants. That's your problem. Speaking of DECEPTION!

        :-)

      • 64.1.6
        Frank says:

        http://www.flickr.com/photos/claycountymuseum/3606781103/

        Not Jesse James, Travis Barron or James L. Courtney after all.

        Irving Gilmer it is!

        :-)

  65. 65
  66. 66
    Frank says:

    "40.3Chuck Rabas says:

    "To sum it up, Betty's claim is based on wild speculation. It has been destroyed by well-documented evidence."

    Someone commented here:"There is also a single old postcard of this image owned by the quantrillguerillas website that is printed on the back of the postcard that it is Jesse James, Frank James and their mother Zerelda James Samuel Those are facts!"

    Yes, that is a fact that a postcard company can print anything on their cards they chose. The fact that it says "Information on the identity of the remainder is welcome" says the card company did not have the full story of the photo.

    That is a fact for this comment section of the group photo today.
    I can say the persons are whoever I want them to be, but does that make it a proven fact? NO!"

    Well said, Fran and Chuck. But we're arguing with a deceiving crook with a straight agenda for fraud here. This is why no historian supports him, the debunked claim or his bogus images.

    A troublemaker through and through. Thanks to all those putting him in his place…AGAIN. :-)

    • 66.1
      Greg Ellison says:

      Ha!

      You said: "…AGAIN. :-)"

      You have never been able to put me away even with all of your lies and this statement proves just how delusional you really are! I've made it to Wild West Magazine Americas BEST SELLING History Magazine even after you claimed you put me away long ago and even threatened to kill me!

      The truth we speak speaks for itself as do the lies that you tell speak for you!

      Greg Ellison

      • 66.1.1
        Frank says:

        You're the liar, fraud and scammer here. Well, you, Boop and Dallas anyway. You exposed yourself AGAIN. I, and the good people here provided facts back by sources that squashed your argument time and time again.

        This is what your lame argument amounts to: "I'm right and you're wrong!"

        If only you had the sources, documentation and provenance to support you. Too bad you don't and never will.

        You're "killing" yourself here, Ellison. No need for anyone to threaten you. To quote Peter Hubbard:

        "Greg Ellison: Give the readers some facts;

        Who identified the people in the image?

        Give the readers of Wild West Magazine, America's BEST SELLING Western History Magazine proof that Jesse is in the photo.

        Give give the readers of Wild West Magazine, America's BEST SELLING Western History Magazine proof that Frank and Annie are in this picture.

        Give give the readers of Wild West Magazine, America's BEST SELLING Western History Magazine proof with footnotes and sources about how you dated this image.

        Do some research and offer the readers of Wild West Magazine, America's BEST SELLING Western History Magazine some proof to support your opinion!"

        You won't find any suckers here. Just as you haven't anywhere in the historical community. We don't put up with crooks.

      • 66.1.2
        Greg Ellison says:

        That's the same thing you said the last time you claimed to have killed me off! Ha!

        Greg Ellison

      • 66.1.3
        Frank says:

        I'd have to agree that you "kill yourself off" every time you disgrace ANY forum.

        You're your own worst enemy, Ellison. Your stupidity and ignorance when it comes to census records, genealogical records, scientific and historical facts sink you every time. Not even misidentified images can help you. You're the laughing stock of the historical community.

        How does that feel again, old man? Stick to repairing and cleaning up Churches. You're out of your league here.

        ;-)

      • 66.1.4
        Greg Ellison says:

        FYI,

        I didn't say "kill yourself off" as you have it in quotes to imply I said that.

        More unbelievable deceptions by Frank!

        Greg Ellison

      • 66.1.5
        Frank says:

        You've been claiming "death threats" ever since you got exposed for scamming people. The readers understand common sense, even if you don't.

        I'm not the one perpetrating a hoax with misidentified images and causing trouble here with baseless rants — That's your problem. Speaking of DECEPTION!

        :-)

  67. 67
    Fran Bolton says:

    40.1.4John Smith says:

    "This is the same "expert" that discovered with his left eye that Frank and Jesse James were in the group photo with Zerelda and Reuben, and then "authenticated" that fact with his right eye under the disguise of "The Jesse James Preservation Trust".

    Out of nearly 400 comments (as I write this) the same expert posted over 1/4 of them. Out of those 103 comments, only ONE explains how he determined that the man "supposed" to be Jesse James in the group photo and the unknown man in the tintype claimed to be James L Courtney are the same person…..he compared their photos :)
    The other 102 changed the subject.
    Fran Bolton

    • 67.1
      Greg Ellison says:

      Fran Bolton,

      You missed several including this one and you call yourself a researcher?

      "Even Carol Holmes says it is Frank and Annie in the photo and she is on your team!

      Armand DeGregoris has photos in his collection that match Frank and Annie in the new group photo perfectly. I have copies of them he sent me years ago that I may produce if he doesn't come out with them. He knows the truth.

      The wedding party sitting in front is clearly the focus of the image. Frank James, Annie James and Jesse James. The lady behind Jesse is identified in writing on the back of the photo by Arch Nicholson as being Mrs. Jesse James. Arch Nicholson is the nephew of Jesse James and was born in 1879. See Arch Nicholson's chart below. His grandfather was also a Courtney making an easy segway for Jesse James.

      Betty Duke's Great-Granfather's photos match Jesse James in the group photo. The good people of Wild West Magazine saw this and that is why it is featured in their magazine. So I ask, Why can't you see it?

      Greg Ellison

      Arch Nicholson's father was William A. Nicholson and his mother was Sarah Louisa Samuel (Jesse and Frank's half-sister).

      William A. Nicholson's parents were:

      Father: James Courtney Nicholson b: 17 Jan 1831 in Gerrard, Kentucky, United States
      Mother: Mary Eliza Brockman b: 1 Dec 1833 in Garrard, Kentucky, United States

      William A. Nicholson married first:

      Marriage 1 Mary Catherine Tilger b: 19 Nov 1861 in Missouri, United States
      William A. Nicholson married second:

      Marriage 2 Sarah Louisa Samuel b: 26 Dec 1858 in Kearney, Clay, Missouri, USA
      •Married: 28 Nov 1878 in , Clay, Missouri, USA 1
      William A. Nicholson and Sarah Louisa Samuel's children were as follows:

      Children
      1. James or John Archibald "Arch" Nicholson b: 19 Oct 1879 in , Clay, Missouri, USA
      2. Frank Nicholson b: 31 Mar 1882 in , Clay, Missouri, USA
      3. Frederick Brockman Nicholson b: 9 Nov 1891 in Clay, Missouri, United States"

      Greg Ellison

  68. 68
    Fran Bolton says:

    John, your message 63.1.3 has a lot of documented facts that prove James L Courtney used a lot of overkill to hide his true identity, in a time when it was not necessary. (IF one subscribes to the claim he was JJ)
    Today, under the Witness Relocation Program, it would be, but not then.

    Fran Bolton

  69. 69
    Claire Easton says:

    Hi.

    I believe this is just another case of mistaken identity.

  70. 70
    Heidi S. says:

    Writing a book as a "narrative" doesn't necessarily mean it is fiction. It is just a term for the style of writing.

    from Wikipedia:

    In historiography, according to Lawrence Stone, narrative has traditionally been the main rhetorical device used by historians. In 1979, at a time when the new Social History was demanding a social-science model of analysis, Stone detected a move back toward the narrative. Lawrence Stone started it in 1979. He defined narrative: it is organized chronologically; it is focused on a single coherent story; it is descriptive rather than analytical; it is concerned with people not abstract circumstances; and it deals with the particular and specific rather than the collective and statistical."

    Heidi

    • 70.1
      Greg Ellison says:

      Heidi,

      I didn't say it was fiction. Jesse James was real and he did do things, However, those things that he did can not be proven with facts and that is what Ted Yeatman realized.

      I'm sorry you misunderstood my words. It seems like that happens a lot with you! I guess it is all of those kiddies running around your feet. You said you have six under nine years old right? That is the excuse I would use if I were you.

      Wikipedia fails you again!

      Greg Ellison

    • 70.2
      Sally Goodson says:

      Thank you, Heidi. I hope you were not offended by the crude remarks made by the other poster.

      • 70.2.1
        Fran Bolton says:

        The opening comment should NOT be one-sided:

        "It is also my hope that her detractors do not attack the messenger as they are prone to do"

        Fran

      • 70.2.2
        Greg Ellison says:

        Fran,

        And I thank you for obeying that request and not attacking Wild West Magazine, so far, as you have attacked the Ray County Museum, The Richmond Daily News, 417 Magazine, The South County Mail, The Charleston Post and Currier, and The Clay Couinty Leader to name just a few soley because they ran a story that I was included in!

        I'm very happy that some of you have grown a little!

        Greg Ellison

  71. 71
    Blake Moore says:

    Have you seen Elvis lately?

  72. 72
    Fran Bolton says:

    Can someone explain Wild West's comment section? I receive email versions of comments that I do not see here.

    Fran Bolton

  73. 73
    Carol says:

    DPS seemed to be upset of how Ms. Duke dumped her evidence on their desk.

    Mrs. Duke says, "Many of the photographs matched. I made arrangements for a forensic artist at the Texas Department of Public Safety in Austin to examine the photos. I needed an expert opinion to lend credibility to my findings. She was very impressed. She had another woman in the photo lab scan a picture of my great-great-grandmother and a picture of Jesse James' mother, Zerelda James Samuel, through a computer that is capable of lifting fingerprints off material.

    "The computer proved what I already knew – their dresses were identical in every way.

    "The photography supervisor's comment was, 'How many little old ladies that looked just alike, missing an arm and wearing identical dresses, were running around Missouri?'

    "The DPS women do not want their names published."

    One of the women was away from her office last week and unavailable. The other said: "I couldn't tell Mrs. Duke anything conclusively. She's found a number of coincidences and similarities. I understand why she would believe as she does. The only real encouragement I offered was to suggest that she organize her evidence in a more analytical format – rather than just dumping a bag of materials on a table."

    • 73.1
      Sally Goodson says:

      Were those women doing favors for mrs. duke while on the state payroll?

      • 73.1.1
        Greg Ellison says:

        Sally,

        I think those women were afraid of you and Frank! He's you're buddy that you let continue to post on your forum for moths after you knew he was threatening to kill people! Delphi Staff finally had to remove him permanently because you wouldn't! Now those are FACTS!

        Greg Ellison

      • 73.1.2
        John Smith says:

        Mr. Ellison

        Sally does not have a forum for moths, or for butterflies.

      • 73.1.3
        Thom McMorrow says:

        Greggy,

        The facts are that you were the one posting the porn on the other site. Frank did nothing wrong!!

        Now those are the facts……………

        -Thom

  74. 74
    Seth Hartley says:

    This Greg Ellison guy is a real loser.

  75. 75
    Thom McMorrow says:

    Greggy,

    I have to say, this is my first time responding to the site as your recent comments have compelled me to issue a response.

    In regards to your response to Heidi I don't believe the problem is her misunderstanding. In my humble opinion, the misunderstandings are on your side of the fence. I believe an old saying sums up your situation "stupid is as stupid does!"

    I also believe the excuse that you should start using to sum up your situation is due to the enormous amount of empty beer cans and beer bottles on your floor. Thats the excuse I would use if I was you!!haha

    In regards to your picture collection, I think you should go back to all the porn pictures you were posting on the other site. At least those nasty things were real!!

    Regard!

    FYI…….Your responses always make sense until I read them. Keep your chin up buddy!

    -Thom

    • 75.1
      Seth Hartley says:

      LOL!

    • 75.2
      Greg Ellison says:

      "Thom"

      Anyone who starts their remarks with a clarifying statement is already lying. That explains the rest of your post perfectly!

      Happy hunting,

      Greg Ellison

      • 75.2.1
        Thom McMorrow says:

        Greggy,

        Take your eyes off the porn and actually read my post…….there were no clarifying statements.

        It takes a liar to know one big boy………………

        Dont bring road head hunting into this…………its still really all about you and your porn collection.

        -Thom (no quotes necessary)

    • 75.3
      Greg Ellison says:

      Frank has now morphed into "Thom"

      • 75.3.1
        Thom McMorrow says:

        Greggy,

        You just continue to make up lies and untruths about the James Family……..why would Frank James be posting as Thom McMorrow. The Frank James that I have read about was not scared of any "bad ass" much less "Greggy Ellison!"

        Get your facts straight, take your eyes off the porn, and put the bottle down!

        -Thom (no quotes necessary)

      • 75.3.2
        Greg Ellison says:

        "Thom" is unstable! See how mad he got over my previous comment?

        Greg Ellison

  76. 76
    Seth Hartley says:

    LOL! Thom ur so right! i been watchin this forum for a while and I must say the guy is either on drugs or just a heavy drinker. LOL!

  77. 77
    Thom McMorrow says:

    Greggory,

    By the way………….I appreciated the free reach around at the James Farm on Wednesday afternoon. It put an extra kick in my step for the last 3 days.

    Thanks Big Boy!

    -Thom

    • 77.1
      Greg Ellison says:

      Frank has now morphed into "Thom"! He has ruined every forum he has ever posted on by doing this very same thing.

      If the people here that are on his side were decent they would out him and condemn his behavior but the won't because they never have!

      That says it all about all of them!

      Carry on with your nonsense!

      Greg Ellison

      • 77.1.1
        Thom McMorrow says:

        Greggy,

        You sure were not this tough and talk talking during our encounter at the James Farm………….I see how you are, get what you want and then move on to someone else!!

        Not cool………

        -Thom

      • 77.1.2
        Greg Ellison says:

        I was at the James Farm on Tuesday! Beth Beckett can vouch for that! Another lie told by you!

        Frank has now morphed into "Thom"! He has ruined every forum he has ever posted on by doing this very same thing.

        If the people here that are on his side were decent they would out him and condemn his behavior but they won't because they never have!

        That says it all about all of them!

        Carry on with your nonsense!

        Greg Ellison

      • 77.1.3
        Frank says:

        You wish I were Thom. But hey, let's not get ahead of ourselves here, Dallas oops I mean Tombstone Annie.

        The James Farm is well aware of your fraud and disgracing the State of Missouri and Jesse Woodson James's real great-granddaughter Betty Barr and family. I really doubt they'd LET you go there.

        People, this is the same guy that was banned from everywhere in the historical community — ebay, Jesse James Discussion Site/Delphi, BJ's Tombstone Discussion, True West Magazine, and soon to be here, etc.

        Ellison has no credibility, morals, honor or a leg to stand on as you all can plainly see. :-)

      • 77.1.4
        Greg Ellison says:

        Why don't you stop crying about me and try to defend you stance?

        Why don't you come up with some real proof that Tom Howard was Jesse James? Zerelda James said that wasn't her son!

        Why don't you prove that Jesse James was ever convicted of robbing a bank, train, stagecoach or for murdering anyone?

        Show us some proof that Zee and Jesse were ever together before Tom Howard was killed?

        Provide your factual proof for those and then I will give you some more. I hope you know what factual proof is!

        Greg Ellison

      • 77.1.5
        Peter Hubbard says:

        Greg Ellison: Give the readers some facts;

        Who identified the people in the image?

        Give the readers of Wild West Magazine, America's BEST SELLING Western History Magazine proof that Jesse is in the photo.

        Give give the readers of Wild West Magazine, America's BEST SELLING Western History Magazine proof that Frank and Annie are in this picture.

        Give give the readers of Wild West Magazine, America's BEST SELLING Western History Magazine proof with footnotes and sources about how you dated this image.

        Do some research and offer the readers of Wild West Magazine, America's BEST SELLING Western History Magazine some proof to support your opinion!

      • 77.1.6
        Greg Ellison says:

        Eric,

        Identifications made by family members are as good as you can get.

        We all recognize and agree that Reuben and Zerelda James Samuel are in the photo, right?

        Betty Duke identified here GreatGrandfather and GreatGrandmother as being in the photo.

        Eldon Courtney also identified his ancestors as being in the photo.

        Don Jackson has confirmed that his GreatGrandfather and his brothers are in the photo.

        "Even Carol Holmes says it is Frank and Annie in the photo and she is on your team!

        Armand DeGregoris has photos in his collection that match Frank and Annie in the new group photo perfectly. I have copies of them he sent me years ago that I may produce if he doesn't come out with them. He knows the truth.

        The wedding party sitting in front is clearly the focus of the image. Frank James, Annie James and Jesse James. The lady behind Jesse is identified in writing on the back of the photo by Arch Nicholson as being Mrs. Jesse James. Arch Nicholson is the nephew of Jesse James and was born in 1879. See Arch Nicholson's chart below. His grandfather was also a Courtney making an easy segway for Jesse James.

        Betty Duke's Great-Granfather's photos match Jesse James in the group photo. The good people of Wild West Magazine saw this and that is why it is featured in their magazine. So I ask, Why can't you see it?

        Greg Ellison

        Arch Nicholson's father was William A. Nicholson and his mother was Sarah Louisa Samuel (Jesse and Frank's half-sister).

        William A. Nicholson's parents were:

        Father: James Courtney Nicholson b: 17 Jan 1831 in Gerrard, Kentucky, United States
        Mother: Mary Eliza Brockman b: 1 Dec 1833 in Garrard, Kentucky, United States

        William A. Nicholson married first:

        Marriage 1 Mary Catherine Tilger b: 19 Nov 1861 in Missouri, United States
        William A. Nicholson married second:

        Marriage 2 Sarah Louisa Samuel b: 26 Dec 1858 in Kearney, Clay, Missouri, USA
        •Married: 28 Nov 1878 in , Clay, Missouri, USA 1
        William A. Nicholson and Sarah Louisa Samuel's children were as follows:

        Children
        1. James or John Archibald "Arch" Nicholson b: 19 Oct 1879 in , Clay, Missouri, USA
        2. Frank Nicholson b: 31 Mar 1882 in , Clay, Missouri, USA
        3. Frederick Brockman Nicholson b: 9 Nov 1891 in Clay, Missouri, United States"

        Greg Ellison

      • 77.1.7
        Frank says:

        Peter Hubbard,

        Why is Ellison not answering your questions or providing any sort of proof and/or sources for the misidentified photo in question and the bogus claim?

      • 77.1.8
      • 77.1.9
      • 77.1.10
        Peter Hubbard says:

        You claim;

        "Identifications made by family members are as good as you can get."

        Not when they're dead relatives that neither you or anyone else living knew! Boy, are you reaching!

        And I'm not addressing Carol Holmes or Armand DeGregoris– I'm talking at you!

        Greg Ellison: Give the readers some facts;

        Who identified the people in the image?

        Give the readers of Wild West Magazine, America's BEST SELLING Western History Magazine proof that Jesse is in the photo.

        Give give the readers of Wild West Magazine, America's BEST SELLING Western History Magazine proof that Frank and Annie are in this picture.

        Give give the readers of Wild West Magazine, America's BEST SELLING Western History Magazine proof with footnotes and sources about how you dated this image.

        Do some research and offer the readers of Wild West Magazine, America's BEST SELLING Western History Magazine some proof to support your opinion!

      • 77.1.11
        Greg Ellison says:

        Temper, temper Eric!

        Relatives rely on old family photographs just as in this case. They know their relatives and have identified them here.

        Identifications made by family members are as good as you can get.

        We all recognize and agree that Reuben and Zerelda James Samuel are in the photo, right?

        Betty Duke identified here GreatGrandfather and GreatGrandmother as being in the photo.

        Eldon Courtney also identified his ancestors as being in the photo.

        Don Jackson has confirmed that his GreatGrandfather and his brothers are in the photo.

        "Even Carol Holmes says it is Frank and Annie in the photo and she is on your team!

        Armand DeGregoris has photos in his collection that match Frank and Annie in the new group photo perfectly. I have copies of them he sent me years ago that I may produce if he doesn't come out with them. He knows the truth.

        The wedding party sitting in front is clearly the focus of the image. Frank James, Annie James and Jesse James. The lady behind Jesse is identified in writing on the back of the photo by Arch Nicholson as being Mrs. Jesse James. Arch Nicholson is the nephew of Jesse James and was born in 1879. See Arch Nicholson's chart below. His grandfather was also a Courtney making an easy segway for Jesse James.

        Betty Duke's Great-Granfather's photos match Jesse James in the group photo. The good people of Wild West Magazine saw this and that is why it is featured in their magazine. So I ask, Why can't you see it?

        Greg Ellison

        Arch Nicholson's father was William A. Nicholson and his mother was Sarah Louisa Samuel (Jesse and Frank's half-sister).

        William A. Nicholson's parents were:

        Father: James Courtney Nicholson b: 17 Jan 1831 in Gerrard, Kentucky, United States
        Mother: Mary Eliza Brockman b: 1 Dec 1833 in Garrard, Kentucky, United States

        William A. Nicholson married first:

        Marriage 1 Mary Catherine Tilger b: 19 Nov 1861 in Missouri, United States
        William A. Nicholson married second:

        Marriage 2 Sarah Louisa Samuel b: 26 Dec 1858 in Kearney, Clay, Missouri, USA
        •Married: 28 Nov 1878 in , Clay, Missouri, USA 1
        William A. Nicholson and Sarah Louisa Samuel's children were as follows:

        Children
        1. James or John Archibald "Arch" Nicholson b: 19 Oct 1879 in , Clay, Missouri, USA
        2. Frank Nicholson b: 31 Mar 1882 in , Clay, Missouri, USA
        3. Frederick Brockman Nicholson b: 9 Nov 1891 in Clay, Missouri, United States"

        Greg Ellison

      • 77.1.12
        Peter Hubbard says:

        Nice try Skippy!

        And once again, I am NOT Eric James and you don't even know who I am!!

        Greg Ellison: Give the readers some facts;

        Who identified the people in the image?

        Give the readers of Wild West Magazine, America's BEST SELLING Western History Magazine proof that Jesse is in the photo.

        Give give the readers of Wild West Magazine, America's BEST SELLING Western History Magazine proof that Frank and Annie are in this picture.

        Give give the readers of Wild West Magazine, America's BEST SELLING Western History Magazine proof with footnotes and sources about how you dated this image.

        Do some research and offer the readers of Wild West Magazine, America's BEST SELLING Western History Magazine some proof to support your opinion!

      • 77.1.13
        Greg Ellison says:

        Ha! You just admitted that you not "Peter Hubbard" just as I said!

        I know who you are, I'm just messin' with you! Karen and I had a good laugh the other day over your email to her!

        Relatives rely on old family photographs just as in this case. They know their relatives and have identified them here.

        Identifications made by family members are as good as you can get.

        We all recognize and agree that Reuben and Zerelda James Samuel are in the photo, right?

        Betty Duke identified here GreatGrandfather and GreatGrandmother as being in the photo.

        Eldon Courtney also identified his ancestors as being in the photo.

        Don Jackson has confirmed that his GreatGrandfather and his brothers are in the photo.

        "Even Carol Holmes says it is Frank and Annie in the photo and she is on your team!

        Armand DeGregoris has photos in his collection that match Frank and Annie in the new group photo perfectly. I have copies of them he sent me years ago that I may produce if he doesn't come out with them. He knows the truth.

        The wedding party sitting in front is clearly the focus of the image. Frank James, Annie James and Jesse James. The lady behind Jesse is identified in writing on the back of the photo by Arch Nicholson as being Mrs. Jesse James. Arch Nicholson is the nephew of Jesse James and was born in 1879. See Arch Nicholson's chart below. His grandfather was also a Courtney making an easy segway for Jesse James.

        Betty Duke's Great-Granfather's photos match Jesse James in the group photo. The good people of Wild West Magazine saw this and that is why it is featured in their magazine. So I ask, Why can't you see it?

        Greg Ellison

        Arch Nicholson's father was William A. Nicholson and his mother was Sarah Louisa Samuel (Jesse and Frank's half-sister).

        William A. Nicholson's parents were:

        Father: James Courtney Nicholson b: 17 Jan 1831 in Gerrard, Kentucky, United States
        Mother: Mary Eliza Brockman b: 1 Dec 1833 in Garrard, Kentucky, United States

        William A. Nicholson married first:

        Marriage 1 Mary Catherine Tilger b: 19 Nov 1861 in Missouri, United States
        William A. Nicholson married second:

        Marriage 2 Sarah Louisa Samuel b: 26 Dec 1858 in Kearney, Clay, Missouri, USA
        •Married: 28 Nov 1878 in , Clay, Missouri, USA 1
        William A. Nicholson and Sarah Louisa Samuel's children were as follows:

        Children
        1. James or John Archibald "Arch" Nicholson b: 19 Oct 1879 in , Clay, Missouri, USA
        2. Frank Nicholson b: 31 Mar 1882 in , Clay, Missouri, USA
        3. Frederick Brockman Nicholson b: 9 Nov 1891 in Clay, Missouri, United States"

        Greg Ellison

      • 77.1.14
        Frank says:

        Good point, Carol. You definitely have these two fraud's numbers.

        Why is Ellison too afraid to add James L. Courtney to his misidentified image collection? Why doesn't Ellison's misidentified photos match the people of history? Why do they NOT match James L. Courtney's, Travis Barron's or Irving Gilmer's photos?

        That says enough right there. Ellison isn't so confident in the scam after all. :-)

    • 77.2
      Frank says:

      "Jesse James did, in fact, use the alias of Thomas Howard. The image of a handwritten letter shows the signature of Thos. Howard, with an address of 1318 Lafayette Street, St. Joseph, Missouri, dated March 2nd, 1882 on the following website.

      http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~nefrankl/pics/JamesLtr2.JPG

      Jesse was responding to an advertisement for land near Franklin, Nebraska, which he was thinking of purchasing.

      Bob Ford killed Jesse James at 1318 Lafayette Street, St. Joseph, MO, on April 3, 1882."

      Jesse James did go by the alias of Thomas Howard after all. Great work, Sandra K!

      • 77.2.1
        Greg Ellison says:

        Where in the letter does it say "Jesse James", brainchild?

        This entire discussion is about the possiblity that Jesse James did not live at 1318 Lafayette St. and we offer proof that he probably did not!

        Wake up Dude!

        Greg Ellison

      • 77.2.2
        Frank says:

        Same address where Jesse James fell dead! Where's your proof he didn't live at the address under the alias of Thomas Howard? You have none as usual.

        Take your meds and try again. This JLC fantasy thing isn't your forte!

  78. 78
    Fran Bolton says:

    Someone commented here:"There is also a single old postcard of this image owned by the quantrillguerillas website that is printed on the back of the postcard that it is Jesse James, Frank James and their mother Zerelda James Samuel Those are facts!"

    No one can say how many copies are owned by the Quantrillsguerillas site but themsleves. http://quantrillsguerrillas.com/xoops/modules/news/
    No one can say how many postcards of that image were sold except the postcard company.
    No one can say how many copies of the original photo exist.
    No one can say how many larger photos of the postcard were sold by the postcard company except the postcard company.
    Hopefully, an owner of either a large photo copy, or the postcard, or a descendant of the subjects in the photo will learn of it's misidentification and correct it.
    I have seen a couple of references here where the postcard was described as being "an old, old postcard", but the fact is the postcard has an address in the center, where one can order larger photos of it, that includes a zip code. Zip codes began July 1, 1963.
    Finally, if the focus of the photo was the three people on the ground, why do the women standing behind Zerelda and Caroline Quantrill have their hands on their shoulders, alluding to their being the focus?? No one has focused or alluded such attention on those seated on the ground, they were not even given a chair!
    If I were the bride, and was directed by the photographer to sit on the ground for my wedding photo, in my wedding dress, I would say "but I am the focus of this photo, I should be seated in a chair, surrounded by the family, friends and possibly fellow outlaws of the James Gang"

    Fran

    • 78.1
      Greg Ellison says:

      Fran,

      The owner of Quantrillsguerillas told Betty Duke that he bought one copy on ebay a few years ago so, yes we can say how many copies he has!

      What we can also say is that as far as we know the one postcard and the photo owned by Betty Duke are the only two known copies of the original photo. Betty Duke owns the much more important copy because of it's clarity over the posrcard owned by quantrillsguerillas!

      Greg Ellison

  79. 79
    Fran Bolton says:

    57.1.6Judy says:
    2/25/2011 at 10:41 pm
    "Good point Sally, the man in the reunion picture with the glasses(that's who they claim is Truman) looks much older than 37. He looks to be more in his late 60's early 70's. I guess Mr. Ellison should worry more about those numbers instead of how many kids Heidi has. He thinks he's embarrassing people but he's only embarrassing himself."

    Harry Truman was born in 1884. How could he be identified as a Civil War participant and attend a 1921 reunion for Quantrill's men??

    Fran

    Fran

    • 79.1
      Fran Bolton says:

      Click here to see photos of Harry Truman just before the 1921 Quantrill Men reunion photo that shows the man identified as him to be a much , much older man.
      http://www.trumanlittlewhitehouse.com/images/learn/harry-truman-service.jpg
      His 1919 wedding photo:
      http://www.trumanlittlewhitehouse.com/key-west/bess-truman-biography.htm

      And yes, he did look like himself most of his life, starting here:
      http://www.trumanlittlewhitehouse.com/images/learn/harry-truman-child.jpg

      Could be the round glasses is where this mistaken identity lies??

      Fran

    • 79.2
      Sally Goodson says:

      I don't think I've ever seen anyone in any CW reunion photo look 37, must less the one being discussed.

      As for our friend, Heidi. She is a remarkable person that is highly educated and has a very significant job. Anyone that can't recognize that about her is an idiot.

      Heidi is also an extremely nice person. What kind of person mocks such a nice person? Hmmmmm. An idiot?

      • 79.2.1
        Greg Ellison says:

        Sally,

        I never mocked Heidi and you accusation that I did shows your deep seated hate for me and only makes you look like the ignorant person that you are!

        Harry Truman attended three Quantrell Reunions as stated by himself in a speech he once gave. Look it up for your own sake! This is one of those reunions!

        Greg Ellison

      • 79.2.2
        Frank says:

        But you did "mock" Heidi in reference to her children and now you attack Sally for calling you on it. You still have some growing up to do apparently.

        Think before you type, fraud!

        Oh, and you have no proof for Harry Truman either. You might as well make up just about anyone to throw in there. That's the Ellison way!

      • 79.2.3
        Fran Bolton says:

        79.2Sally Goodson says:
        2/26/2011 at 5:17 am
        "I don't think I've ever seen anyone in any CW reunion photo look 37, must less the one being discussed."

        They began in 1888, the first one honored Caroline Quantrill on her visit to MO.
        Ten years later, Frank and Annie began hosting them as official reunions. So, the photos one sees will be 1898-1929.
        The reunions of the survivors met at various locations and at various times. They often coincided with the annual fair. They often drew a larger crowd at the fair than any of the shows and exhibits.
        The fair could explain Harry Truman attending 2-3 reunions as he said, as a young man, but as others have pointed out, he could not be the elderly man in the glasses in the 1921 reunion photo in this article. He was only 37 at the time.

        Fran

    • 79.3
      Greg Ellison says:

      Fran,

      Please do some research!

      Harry Truman attended three Quantrell Reunions as stated by himself in a speech he once gave. Look it up for your own sake! This is one of those reunions!

      Harry Truman's wife, Bess Wallace Truman, was related to Lizzie Wallace who held the reunions at Wallace's Grove!

      Greg Ellison

      • 79.3.1
        Bill Gregg says:

        It's true that H. S. Truman attended a few Quantrill reunions, as did any number of other local elected officials. What is NOT documented is which ones he attended. You have stated elsewhere that you identified the man in that blurry newspaper photograph as Truman because he's wearing glasses.

      • 79.3.2
        Greg Ellison says:

        No Bill,

        I didn't say I identified Harry Truman by him wearing glasses and you can't show anyone were I did because this is just another example of your lies!

        I identified him as Harry Truman because he looks like Harry Truman! The Truman Library was quite surprised when I alerted them to this new discovery.

        Greg Ellison

      • 79.3.3
        Frank says:

        So, you identify someone because they "look like" someone. Wow. And you wonder why no one takes you seriously, scammer!

        People, this is why this fraud has such a bad reputation and isn't welcome in the historical community. He labels images and tries to pass them off because he THINKS they "look like" someone famous. Good Lord. Ellison needs help. But before he gets that, he should look into some documentation and/or provenance for his bogus images.

    • 79.4
      Frank says:

      Aww. Look at that. Ellison offers no proof for "Harry Truman" either. He'd rather bully women around instead.

      Heidi is above you, fraud. Again, you're out of your league here.

      • 79.4.1
        Greg Ellison says:

        Half way down on the link below the photo of Harry Truman you will see him quoted as saying he attended the Quantrell Reunions:

        http://www.ksscv.org/images/ksdivisionnewsletter201011.pdf

        There is plenty of other proof if you look for it!

        To me, you are 20,000 leagues under the sea, Bottom Feeder!

        Greg Ellison

      • 79.4.2
        Frank says:

        So that places him in the photo automatically, eh? Riiiight. Too bad for you the man in the Irving Gilmer group photo isn't Harry Truman.

        "Looking like" something or someone isn't considered proof, you old fool!

  80. 80
    Fran Bolton says:

    Question for Chuck: The photo of the Quantrill guerilla reunion said to have Harry Truman is dated Sept 19, 1921, as appearing in the Kansas City Post, and featured in Donald Hale's book "The William Clarke Quantrill Men Reunions 1898-1929".
    Does that newspaper name those attending or appearing in the photo?
    Here is a link to the 1920 reunion photo, it would logically have some if not all of the same members still living and attending the 1921:
    http://www.rulen.com/partisan/1920.htm
    First Row: Harry Hoffman, Unknown, Jesse E. James.

    Second Row: Morgan Maddox?, George Noland, John W. Williams.

    Third Row: John Brown?, Jim Campbell, Willis Redman.

    I find it very interesting that Jesse E James might have attended a reunion that his father did in 1921, if you buy into the identites given in this Wild West article.

    Fran

    • 80.1
      Fran Bolton says:

      "Here is a link to the 1920 reunion photo, it would logically have some if not all of the same members still living and attending the 1921 reunion:
      http://www.rulen.com/partisan/1920.htm
      First Row: Harry Hoffman, Unknown, Jesse E. James.
      Second Row: Morgan Maddox?, George Noland, John W. Williams.
      Third Row: John Brown?, Jim Campbell, Willis Redman

      This list has 9 men listed. The 1921 Quantrill reunion photo in this article shows 9 men.
      Could they be the same 9?

      Here is a list of the men who attended in 1914, six of which are named as attending the 1920 reunion:
      Syvester Akers, L.J. Brown, John T. Burns, J.M. Campbell, R.W. Colburn, Orth Creek, H. Clay Crenshaw, W.B. Durrett, Dave Edwards, Richard Ellington, J.C. Ervin, W.W. Field, J.N. Gaines, Hi George, W.W. Greer, J. Frank Gregg, G.B. Harris, A.F. Hays, John Hill, Tom Hill, Wood Hill, Harry Hoffman, H.N. Hockensmith, R.W. Jack, John McCorkle, Morgan Maddox, N.T. Montgomery, L.C. Miller, Ben H. Morrow, George M. Nolan, Thomas Noland, William H. Patterson, Gabe Parr, J.C. Peters, Levi Potts, George Small, Lee Stone, Thomas Tatum, W.B. Terry, T.B. Webb, John N. Williams, J.A. Workman, George Young, E. Zeysing.

      Fran

  81. 81
    Bill Gregg says:

    Over 450 comments thus far, and the only ones supporting the photograph are based on Mr. Ellison's identification of some of the subjects. I suggest that anyone unfamiliar as to why it's logical to doubt his ability should visit his website and see for themselves why he has no credibility within the historical community.
    http://www.theellisoncollection.com

    I commend Wild West for bringing Ms. Duke's claim, this photograph, and Mr. Ellison's collection to the attention of a vast audience, where their obvious flaws can be seen.

    I regret to see so many irrelevalent posts (often little more than name-calling shouting contests) cluttering up this forum.

    • 81.1
      Greg Ellison says:

      Eric James,

      All of those "name calling shouting contests" are started by your little group!

      It gauls you that Betty Duke got her James Family photo in Wild West Magazine, America's BEST SELLING Western History Magaize and you know it. It is obvious by your repeated nonsense that you have exhibited her on this forum posting under severl fake names pretendeing not to be Eric James or one of his group!

      I am absolutely positve that the readers of Wild West Magazine and blog are very smart and capable of seeign you and your friends for what you are! You tried to stop us time and time agaisn but the truth continues to come out even despite your best efforts. Perhaps if you took an honest approach to all of this and used your real name things would go better for you but, then again, that would expose you for what you really are, right?

      name-calling shouting contests

    • 81.2
      Frank says:

      Ellison aka Tombstone Annie,

      You certainly don't have any room to talk about "fake names" with all the fake names you've invaded respected sites and forums! What's "galling" is the fact that you and Betty are on yet another forum and website stirring up trouble with a misidentified photo with no provenance and no documentation to support it. It's "galling" that you are incapable of answering simple questions and are still incapable of proving your claim. What's "galling" is your lack of credibility ANYWHERE!

      Eric James isn't the one perpetrating a hoax with lies and misidentified photos — that's all Greg Ellison and Betty Duke and maybe one or two of their cronies.

      If only Ellison were an honest individual he wouldn't be here getting his ass handed to him. Not even Irving Gilmer can help him now! ;-)

      Good work, everyone!

      "Give the readers some facts;

      Who identified the people in the image?

      Give the readers of Wild West Magazine, America's BEST SELLING Western History Magazine proof that Jesse is in the photo.

      Give give the readers of Wild West Magazine, America's BEST SELLING Western History Magazine proof that Frank and Annie are in this picture.

      Give give the readers of Wild West Magazine, America's BEST SELLING Western History Magazine proof with footnotes and sources about how you dated this image.

      Do some research and offer the readers of Wild West Magazine, America's BEST SELLING Western History Magazine some proof to support your opinion!"

      This remains unanswered for all to see. There's your sign! :-)

  82. 82
    Heidi S. says:

    Thanks, Sally, for defending me!!

    Heidi

    • 82.1
      Greg Ellison says:

      Heidi,

      May I ask what you did that needed defending?

      Greg Ellison

  83. 83
    Thom McMorrow says:

    Greggy,

    Why do you continue to lie about meeting me at the James Farm on Wednesday?? I have proof via Art Vandelay who is a good friend and attendant at the farm. He is very well aware of who you are and your tactics. He witnessed the encounter……………….and your presence at the farm on Wednesday……………….just want to make you think a little bit.

    -Thom (aka Red Eye)

  84. 84
    Heidi S. says:

    Greg,

    I didn't do anything. I just meant thanks for defending me against what you said about me.

    Heidi

    • 84.1
      Greg Ellison says:

      Heidi,

      What did I say about you that was untrue or needed defending?

      Greg Ellison

      • 84.1.1
        Peter Hubbard says:

        Its obvious you were trying to bully her! You owe her an apology!

      • 84.1.2
        Greg Ellison says:

        Peter,

        Please quote me where you think I was bullying Heidi!

        I think it is very childish of you to say that when there are several on here saying some pretty crude things to me. You wouldn't be two-faced would you? I think so!

        Greg Ellison

      • 84.1.3
        Peter Hubbard says:

        Greg- Real men don't need to be told when boys like you are picking on women. IMO you were being abusive!

      • 84.1.4
        Greg Ellison says:

        "Peter Hubbard",

        Real men use their real, provable names as I do! I never picked on Heidi and if you think I did you are a simple minded fool!

        Heidi put herself in this conversation and I have said nothing to her that she didn't say herself. She is the one that talks about her kids all the time and you very well know that! I simply suggested that might be the reason for her misunderstanding some of my comments that were very clearly said!

        Greg Ellison

    • 84.2
      Frank says:

      Yeah, Peter. Ellison here is notorious for running away from an argument and using personal attacks as his only defense.

      Typical ploy of a cop-out and coward. What else do you expect from a fraud and scammer?

      :-)

      • 84.2.1
        Greg Ellison says:

        I expect a fraud and a scammer to call himself "Frank"!

        You haven't seen me run away from any argument as I have answered every post on this forum that merits an answer!

        Greg Ellison

    • 84.3
      Frank says:

      Greg, you're the fraud and scammer here pushing a hoax and misidentified images onto yet ANOTHER forum running away from answering any questions or providing any sort of proof or honesty for your claims!

      You see, I don't have that problem. You're a dishonest prick with a bad reputation of scamming and you know it. Did you think it's just a coincidence that no one likes you and the fact that you're not welcome anywhere? Time to smell the coffee, fraud. You're all alone out there.

      ;-)

      • 84.3.1
        Greg Ellison says:

        Why is it that a few individuals using fake names can not see the images for what they are but many, many professional journalist and curators from prodution companies, national television programs, national magazines, newspapers and museums can?

        That makes you wonder about the odd posters here, doesn't it?

        Greg Ellison

      • 84.3.2
        Frank says:

        Why is it that Ellison is not getting anywhere with yet ANOTHER fake image? Why is it that Ellison has no provenance or documentation for anything he claims? Why is it that the historical community and the State of Missouri does not support him?

        Ellison preys on those ignorant to his scam. That really makes you wonder about his lack of credibility, doesn't it?? :-)

      • 84.3.3
        Greg Ellison says:

        Here you go:

        *The Ray County Museum in "Missouri" houses my collection.

        *My findings are featured in Wild West Magazine, America's BEST SELLING Western History Magazine.

        *Images from my collection have been used on The History Channel programs in the past with more to come in the future.

        *My images have been featured in many print publications such as newspapers and magazines.

        *My Jesse James photo collection has better provenace than any other Jesse James photo. It comes from the next door neighbor of Jesse James Jr. and relative of Jesse James, Frank Walker Poor! Jesse James Jr. was always raised to believe he was the son of Jesse James.

        Nuff said!

        Greg Ellison

    • 84.4
      Frank says:

      "*The Ray County Museum in "Missouri" houses my collection."

      You scammed them with misidentified photos and a fake letter. Your "collection" does not match the people you claim them to be. You have zero documentation proving any photo.

      "*My findings are featured in Wild West Magazine, America's BEST SELLING Western History Magazine."

      You have no "findings". Yet again you pulled one over here with a misidentified photo and a fake letter. Your "collection" does not match the people you claim them to be. You have zero documentation proving any photo.

      Give the readers some facts;

      Who identified the people in the image?

      Give the readers of Wild West Magazine, America's BEST SELLING Western History Magazine proof that Jesse is in the photo.

      Give give the readers of Wild West Magazine, America's BEST SELLING Western History Magazine proof that Frank and Annie are in this picture.

      Give give the readers of Wild West Magazine, America's BEST SELLING Western History Magazine proof with footnotes and sources about how you dated this image.

      Do some research and offer the readers of Wild West Magazine, America's BEST SELLING Western History Magazine some proof to support your opinion!

      "*Images from my collection have been used on The History Channel programs in the past with more to come in the future."

      None will "come in the future". Just like all the fake movie deals, etc. you've claimed for years now. Again, you scammed the "program" with misidentified photos and a fake letter. Your "collection" does not match the people you claim them to be. You have zero documentation proving any photo. The History Channel program was also refuted and discarded in the historical community.

      http://ericjames.org/wordpress/2009/11/13/jesse-james-hidden-treasure-bogus-history-fantasy-from-the-history-channel/

      * The body buried in Kearney, Missouri, as Jesse James's was exhumed in 1995 and subjected to mitochondrial DNA typing. The report, prepared by Anne C. Stone, Ph.D., James E. Starrs, L.L.M., and Mark Stoneking, Ph.D., stated the mtDNA recovered from the remains was consistent with the mtDNA of one of James's relatives in the female line. This theme resurfaced in a 2009 documentary, Jesse James' Hidden Treasure, which aired on the History Channel. The documentary was dismissed as pseudo-history and pseudo-science by historian Nancy Samuelson in a review she wrote for Winter, 2009-2010 edition of The James-Younger Gang Journal."

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesse_James

      So much for that.

      "*My images have been featured in many print publications such as newspapers and magazines. "

      Again, anywhere you took your bogus images you scammed a few suckers. After all, your "collection" does not match the people you claim them to be. You have zero documentation proving any photo.

      "*My Jesse James photo collection has better provenace than any other Jesse James photo. It comes from the next door neighbor of Jesse James Jr. and relative of Jesse James, Frank Walker Poor! Jesse James Jr. was always raised to believe he was the son of Jesse James. "

      You've admitted yourself you didn't have any connection. Your letter is a fake and doesn't name any individual photo. You have zero documentation and provenance for the images you randomly buy on ebay and try to pass off as dead celebrities. Jesse James Jr. IS the son of Jesse Woodson James. Apparently you didn't bother to read his book or the word of his grandmother, Zerelda. If you still have a problem with facts, take it up with Jesse's real great granddaughter Betty Barr and the State of Missouri. :-)

      "Nuff said!"

      Not *enough* apparently. You're still losing with your fakes and this Irving Gilmer photo! After all, where are the changes being made? Whom in the historical community supports you?

      :-)

  85. 85
    Heidi S. says:

    Peter is right……….you can't trust a relative's identification if he/she never knew that relative and they have been dead for years. That is not real proof.

    Heidi

    • 85.1
      Greg Ellison says:

      Heidi,

      Who said these people never saw them alive?

      Have you seen photographs of your GreatGrandfather? Would you know him? I would know mine!

      Relatives rely on memory and old family photographs just as in this case. They know their relatives and have identified them in the new James family photo.

      Identifications made by family members are as good as you can get.

      Why are all of you always asking "What does Betty Barr think?". She wasn't alive when you claim Jesse James was killed but you seem to think her opinion would be sufficient, right? Same here with these family members. You can't have it both ways!

      Greg Ellison

      • 85.1.1
        Peter Hubbard says:

        Once again;

        Greg Ellison: Give the readers some facts;

        Who identified the people in the image?

        Give the readers of Wild West Magazine, America's BEST SELLING Western History Magazine proof that Jesse is in the photo.

        Give give the readers of Wild West Magazine, America's BEST SELLING Western History Magazine proof that Frank and Annie are in this picture.

        Give give the readers of Wild West Magazine, America's BEST SELLING Western History Magazine proof with footnotes and sources about how you dated this image.

        Do some research and offer the readers of Wild West Magazine, America's BEST SELLING Western History Magazine some proof to support your opinion!

      • 85.1.2
        Greg Ellison says:

        "Peter Hubbard" just admitted that he isn't "Peter Hubbard" proving me right once again!

        Relatives rely on old family photographs just as in this case. They know their relatives and have identified them here.

        Identifications made by family members are as good as you can get.

        We all recognize and agree that Reuben and Zerelda James Samuel are in the photo, right?

        Betty Duke identified here GreatGrandfather and GreatGrandmother as being in the photo.

        Eldon Courtney also identified his ancestors as being in the photo.

        Don Jackson has confirmed that his GreatGrandfather and his brothers are in the photo.

        "Even Carol Holmes says it is Frank and Annie in the photo and she is on your team!

        Armand DeGregoris has photos in his collection that match Frank and Annie in the new group photo perfectly. I have copies of them he sent me years ago that I may produce if he doesn't come out with them. He knows the truth.

        The wedding party sitting in front is clearly the focus of the image. Frank James, Annie James and Jesse James. The lady behind Jesse is identified in writing on the back of the photo by Arch Nicholson as being Mrs. Jesse James. Arch Nicholson is the nephew of Jesse James and was born in 1879. See Arch Nicholson's chart below. His grandfather was also a Courtney making an easy segway for Jesse James.

        Betty Duke's Great-Granfather's photos match Jesse James in the group photo. The good people of Wild West Magazine saw this and that is why it is featured in their magazine. So I ask, Why can't you see it?

        Greg Ellison

        Arch Nicholson's father was William A. Nicholson and his mother was Sarah Louisa Samuel (Jesse and Frank's half-sister).

        William A. Nicholson's parents were:

        Father: James Courtney Nicholson b: 17 Jan 1831 in Gerrard, Kentucky, United States
        Mother: Mary Eliza Brockman b: 1 Dec 1833 in Garrard, Kentucky, United States

        William A. Nicholson married first:

        Marriage 1 Mary Catherine Tilger b: 19 Nov 1861 in Missouri, United States
        William A. Nicholson married second:

        Marriage 2 Sarah Louisa Samuel b: 26 Dec 1858 in Kearney, Clay, Missouri, USA
        •Married: 28 Nov 1878 in , Clay, Missouri, USA 1
        William A. Nicholson and Sarah Louisa Samuel's children were as follows:

        Children
        1. James or John Archibald "Arch" Nicholson b: 19 Oct 1879 in , Clay, Missouri, USA
        2. Frank Nicholson b: 31 Mar 1882 in , Clay, Missouri, USA
        3. Frederick Brockman Nicholson b: 9 Nov 1891 in Clay, Missouri, United States"

        Greg Ellison

      • 85.1.3
        Frank says:

        Ellison, stop dodging the questions. What are you so afraid of?

        Greg Ellison: Give the readers some facts;

        "Who identified the people in the image?

        Give the readers of Wild West Magazine, America's BEST SELLING Western History Magazine proof that Jesse is in the photo.

        Give give the readers of Wild West Magazine, America's BEST SELLING Western History Magazine proof that Frank and Annie are in this picture.

        Give give the readers of Wild West Magazine, America's BEST SELLING Western History Magazine proof with footnotes and sources about how you dated this image.

        Do some research and offer the readers of Wild West Magazine, America's BEST SELLING Western History Magazine some proof to support your opinion!"

      • 85.1.4
        Frank says:

        "Identifications made by family members are as good as you can get."

        Not if they're liars and scammers with an agenda for fraud like YOU. But then again, Betty Duke isn't a member of the James family either.

        "Relatives rely on memory and old family photographs just as in this case. They know their relatives and have identified them in the new James family photo. "

        Not always so. Mistaken identity is always possible. The image of Irving Gilmer you brought here for example. No documentation and provenance stumps you every time. ;-)

        "Why are all of you always asking "What does Betty Barr think?". She wasn't alive when you claim Jesse James was killed but you seem to think her opinion would be sufficient, right?"

        She knows her true family history, unlike you and the fraud you support. It wasn't too far behind her. Take it up with Jesse's real great granddaughter Betty Barr, the State of Missouri and be sure to let us all know when it happens. ;-)

        Oh, and stop the bullying. This isn't your house and Heidi isn't your wife.

        :-)

      • 85.1.5
        Greg Ellison says:

        Careful, the wagons are circling and you are about to be trapped by your own words!

        Relatives rely on old family photographs just as in this case. They know their relatives and have identified them here.

        Identifications made by family members are as good as you can get.

        We all recognize and agree that Reuben and Zerelda James Samuel are in the photo, right?

        Betty Duke identified here GreatGrandfather and GreatGrandmother as being in the photo.

        Eldon Courtney also identified his ancestors as being in the photo.

        Don Jackson has confirmed that his GreatGrandfather and his brothers are in the photo.

        "Even Carol Holmes says it is Frank and Annie in the photo and she is on your team!

        Armand DeGregoris has photos in his collection that match Frank and Annie in the new group photo perfectly. I have copies of them he sent me years ago that I may produce if he doesn't come out with them. He knows the truth.

        The wedding party sitting in front is clearly the focus of the image. Frank James, Annie James and Jesse James. The lady behind Jesse is identified in writing on the back of the photo by Arch Nicholson as being Mrs. Jesse James. Arch Nicholson is the nephew of Jesse James and was born in 1879. See Arch Nicholson's chart below. His grandfather was also a Courtney making an easy segway for Jesse James.

        Betty Duke's Great-Granfather's photos match Jesse James in the group photo. The good people of Wild West Magazine saw this and that is why it is featured in their magazine. So I ask, Why can't you see it?

        Greg Ellison

        Arch Nicholson's father was William A. Nicholson and his mother was Sarah Louisa Samuel (Jesse and Frank's half-sister).

        William A. Nicholson's parents were:

        Father: James Courtney Nicholson b: 17 Jan 1831 in Gerrard, Kentucky, United States
        Mother: Mary Eliza Brockman b: 1 Dec 1833 in Garrard, Kentucky, United States

        William A. Nicholson married first:

        Marriage 1 Mary Catherine Tilger b: 19 Nov 1861 in Missouri, United States
        William A. Nicholson married second:

        Marriage 2 Sarah Louisa Samuel b: 26 Dec 1858 in Kearney, Clay, Missouri, USA
        •Married: 28 Nov 1878 in , Clay, Missouri, USA 1
        William A. Nicholson and Sarah Louisa Samuel's children were as follows:

        Children
        1. James or John Archibald "Arch" Nicholson b: 19 Oct 1879 in , Clay, Missouri, USA
        2. Frank Nicholson b: 31 Mar 1882 in , Clay, Missouri, USA
        3. Frederick Brockman Nicholson b: 9 Nov 1891 in Clay, Missouri, United States"

        Greg Ellison

    • 85.2
      Sandra K says:

      These are facts:

      http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~jessejames/jlcdc.jpg

      http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~jessejames/jamescourtney.html

      Regardless of your opinion, it speaks over you.

      "Armand DeGregoris has photos in his collection that match Frank and Annie in the new group photo perfectly. I have copies of them he sent me years ago that I may produce if he doesn't come out with them. He knows the truth."

      And does his photos state anywhere "I am Jesse James or I am James Lafayette Courtney"??? Hmmm?

      "The wedding party sitting in front is clearly the focus of the image. Frank James, Annie James and Jesse James. The lady behind Jesse is identified in writing on the back of the photo by Arch Nicholson as being Mrs. Jesse James. Arch Nicholson is the nephew of Jesse James and was born in 1879. See Arch Nicholson's chart below. His grandfather was also a Courtney making an easy segway for Jesse James."

      Frank and Jesse James aren't in the image though. It was taken up to 10 years after Jesse's death.

      http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e1/Jesse_James_dead_01.jpg

      James Lafayette Courtney never knew any in the image let alone been out to the James Farm. You got both men confused with the editor of the Liberty Tribune. Mr. Irving Gilmer.

      http://www.flickr.com/photos/claycountymuseum/3606781103/

      "Betty Duke's Great-Granfather's photos match Jesse James in the group photo. The good people of Wild West Magazine saw this and that is why it is featured in their magazine. So I ask, Why can't you see it? "

      No. They do not. And I'm sure once Wild West Magazine knows the full story they are not going to be too happy getting taken advantage of. There is no provenance for the image. Why can't you provide it? Hmm?

      "There is also a single old posctcard of this image owned by the quantrillguerillas website that is printed on the back of the postcard that it is Jesse James, Frank James and their mother Zerelda James Samuel

      Those are facts!"

      It was guessed at best with zero provenance attached. That is as far as it went. Mr. Ellison doesn't understand facts too well. *snicker*

    • 85.3
      Frank says:

      "Give the readers some facts;

      Who identified the people in the image?

      Give the readers of Wild West Magazine, America's BEST SELLING Western History Magazine proof that Jesse is in the photo.

      Give give the readers of Wild West Magazine, America's BEST SELLING Western History Magazine proof that Frank and Annie are in this picture.

      Give give the readers of Wild West Magazine, America's BEST SELLING Western History Magazine proof with footnotes and sources about how you dated this image.

      Do some research and offer the readers of Wild West Magazine, America's BEST SELLING Western History Magazine some proof to support your opinion!"

      What is Greg here so afraid of? Fact is he has no answers or evidence to support the debunked claim and Irving Gilmer photo! Just a lot of hot air as usual from the blowhard and cyber bully that likes to pick on women.

      ;-)

  86. 86
    Carol says:

    Jesse James in Texas has become a laughable cause. Poor Blevins, Texas. Not that anyone would go to the grave site of JLC as those do of J Frank Dalton in Grandbury, Texas, I believe Ms. Duke has made a laughing stock of the entire Courtney klan. Rewrite the book Ms. Duke and title it "My Great great grandfather knew of Jesse James." Don't alter photo's and don't try to make the story fit.
    When I went to Mo. back in 2005 I went to the Liberty Bank Museum. I mentioned Betty Dukes Name and it got very quite. The person working there said "That quack from Texas." Same atmosphere at the James Farm when Betty Dukes name was spoken of. Seems the State of Mo. is not to fond of Ms. Duke claiming to be the ggranddaughter of Jesse James and this was in 2005. I can only imagaine how disliked the name is now in that community. If an ebay photo can draw out so many false leads in her story what does that tell you about the rest of her books and her current up coming book. Lies, lies and more lies. It blows me away that she is claiming JLC is in that photo with his mother Zerelda and that Mary Ellen is also in that photo. But for her other relatives to jump on the turnip wagon as well with their claims of their relatives are in that photo will there be room for one more claim? Ms. Duke took her story down the tube fast with one simple photograph. Which by the way
    Mr. Elliot you still don't have JLC photos in your collection. The group photo you do. No argument there. My questions is "Why haven't you included all of the photos in Dukes book into your collection." Perhaps she could get some sold that way.
    This is one crazy story that beats Lee Howk all to peices.

    • 86.1
      Greg Ellison says:

      Carol, the little lost nomad!

      • 86.1.1
        Frank says:

        Greggy, the scammer and fraud shunned by the historical community for lies and fake photos.

  87. 87
    Heidi S. says:

    It did seem like bullying to me. But, I don't care.

    • 87.1
      Greg Ellison says:

      Heidi,

      Could you please quote me where you consider it bullying. I find it odd that you consider you were bullied but do not mention the bullying that is occuring to me on this forum.

      Why is it that you "don't care" as it wasn't really bullying but others seem to be making a big crybaby deal about it? Why would they be doing that if it weren't for sensationalism? Because it is for sensationalism as they have proven!

      What confuses me is why you consort with known liars and threat makers as you do!

      Take care,

      Greg Ellison

  88. 88
    Heidi S. says:

    Greg,

    You know what you said, I don't have to explain it to you.

    You dish out the bullying to many people on here and elsewhere, so you should be able to take it. This is why no one comes to your defense. I do not bully or make insulting statements to anyone.

    I associate with them because I do not believe they are liars or threat makers.

    Also, Peter never said he was not Peter Hubbard. He only said you don't know who he is.

    Heidi

    • 88.1
      Greg Ellison says:

      Heidi,

      I know what I said and it sure wasn't bullying by any means. If you consider my comments as bullying why are you not concerned with the lying, offensive, nasty talk of your friend Frank who you have defended and consorted with on other forums? Are you two-faced like him and his friends?

      I take many of your comments as insulting to me so you had better look in the mirror before throwing accusations!

      "Peter Hubbard" said I didn't know who he was? That means he is not "Peter Hubbard"! If he were "Peter Hubbard" then I would know he is Peter Hubbard, he's not!

      Why do you fall for the many deceptions that they are a part of? Aren't you smarter than that?

      Greg Ellison

    • 88.2
      John Smith says:

      Heidi,
      Most historians and genealogists who participate in forums share facts and offer opinions to collectively reach the most complete and accurate record of events that occurred in the past. Those forums provide a pleasant experience for participants. Sadly, there are a very few who have no interest in history and genealogy and who invade forums with an agenda. Ms. Duke commandeered the James Genforum for 10 years with endless claims and inane questions regarding the life of Jesse James in an effort to generate interest in her books about her fictitious great-grandfather,.. After 10 years, Genforum prohibited further discussion of the life of Jesse James because of the false claims of Ms. Duke. Mr. Ellison takes every opportunity to promote his so-called "collection" of miscellaneous unidentified photographs, and also gets his jollies by disputing facts with illogical arguments until, in his mind, he feels he has won the argument. His rude and inconsiderate behavior has resulted in his banishment from all Jesse James discussion sites, except for his own.

      • 88.2.1
        Greg Ellison says:

        Heidi,

        John Smith is full of hot air as usual.

        The James Genforum was closed because some posters were making personal threats to Betty Duke and I. You can contact them and confirm that.

        Eric James was removed from The Jesse James Discussion Forum years ago for attributing the sexual abuse of a child to another member. You can contact them and confirm that.

        "Frank Cole" and Carol Stogsdill Holmes are the only two people that I am aware of that have been banned from all of Delphi Forums permanantly for life and they are here posting on this forum as we speak. You can contact Delphi Staff to confirm that.

        Eric James, Melvin Graf, Gay Mathis, Dale Michael Osef, Sally Goodson and Jeff "Soapy" Smith have singlehandedly caused the demise of clean interaction on the True West Forum by attacking anything and everything they disagree with. They have a lack of conversation abilties as we all know.

        I have only been banned by moderators like Marvin Leslie, Mike Venable and Sally Goodson that don't like to hear any opposition to there own little worlds! Those are the facts!

        Greg Ellison

    • 88.3
      Frank says:

      The James Genforum was actually closed due to Lunatic/Ellison's and Boop's constant lies, fake photos and trouble-making. Genforum can indeed confirm that it was shut down due to their harassment and trolling. When sources of historical and documented facts were provided, they were exposed as the frauds they are.

      "Eric James was removed from The Jesse James Discussion Forum years ago for attributing the sexual abuse of a child to another member. You can contact them and confirm that."

      Wow. Reaching all the way out to left field for that one! Could you please provide some proof for this accusation?

      Keep in mind, Lunatic/Ellison and his cronies are the one's banned from ALL the legitimate Jesse James Discussion sites — this also include Sally Goodson's forum, Butch's and Mike Venable's. He was also banned from True West Magazine by Bob Boze Bell, ebay, BJ's Tombstone discussion, and a lot more.

      Disagreement is one thing. Trouble-making, harassment and personal attacks is another — This what Lunatic/Ellison and his ilk resort to when they can't debate properly. They're are incapable of proving any sort of proof for their claims and when confronted with the facts they turn it into a flame war. Their agenda is fraud. This is why no one wants anything to do with them. This is indeed a fact.

      • 88.3.1
        Greg Ellison says:

        You're so easily proven wrong!

        http://forums.delphiforums.com/jessejames/messages?msg=582.52

        It is evident to everyone that you are the lunatic poster on all of the forums!

        Greg Ellison

      • 88.3.2
        Frank says:

        Very funny! You're the nut running around with the loonies believing Jesse James had ties to the KKK! Durr dee durrr!

        Eric explained his hypothesis, proved his point and made you look bad. You had nothing to offer there but personal attacks.

        I think it's funny that you go back to something that clearly went over your head and in turn fail to remind everyone why you were BANNED from Butch's site. So much for "freedom of speech" you preach about. Yet again your hypocrisy knows no bounds, Church Janitor. :-)

        This all comes from a guy that scams people with fake and misidentified photos. Hysterical!

      • 88.3.3
        Dallas Hunt says:

        Actually Frank, Jesse James did have connections to several confederate groups. Arthur McCoy was one of the founders of the minutemen in St. Louis who were a secessionist group. Confederate General Basil Duke was a friend and fellow founder in the same chapter of it as the McCoy. Basil Duke won fame in the war fighting under John Hunt Morgan and if you would actually research you would note that Morgan and Duke held several campaigns with help from the KGC and it is DOCUMENTED. Jesses own cousin Jason James wrote two autobiographys and stated not only was he a member of the James Gang but he also was a member of the kkk and the bulldozers and White Camelia both Confederate organizations that were around after the war! He admitted terrorizing and stealing ballot boxes during the reconstruction. Harry Hoffman who was one of Jesse Edward James best friends and was a good friend of both Cole Younger, Frank James and others admitted in newspaper interviews that he was a former grand Klegel of the kkk in Missouri and if you would research you would see that Jesse Jr. Was arrested for Klan work in
        1926! I could name many other JJ connections to the kkk and neo-confederate groups afterthe war but I'm saving that for one of my books. These are documented and researched facts, you should try doing that. But I guess you can't because your a fraud. Atleast I know your Rollie now. Anyone reading these comments will see your an idiot and th fraud I'm sick and tired of all yalls games but I will never stop searching for the truth. James was Jesse and you know it. Try me buddy :)

      • 88.3.4
        Greg Ellison says:

        You lost again because I furnished proof that proved you wrong! Eric did just as I said and I proved it to you! I've got the original post made by Eric James that was deleted if you want to see it!

        Suck it up! Everybody is seeing you for the fradulant person that you really are! Is that what you want?

        Greg Ellison

      • 88.3.5
        Frank says:

        "You lost again because I furnished proof that proved you wrong! Eric did just as I said and I proved it to you! I've got the original post made by Eric James that was deleted if you want to see it!"

        But you didn't furnish any proof. Nothing you claimed was there. You only proved that you were attacking Eric James without addressing the issue at hand. Once again you offered no rebuttal or proof for your claims, just as you're doing here. ;-)

        "Suck it up! Everybody is seeing you for the fradulant person that you really are! Is that what you want?"

        Who's "everybody?" Your other personalities don't count, Lunatic! I'm not the one going around pushing a hoax and fake/misidentified images onto various websites and people ignorant to history. That's all you! :-)

        Scammer, you shouldn't type until you're sober.

      • 88.3.6
        Frank says:

        "Actually Frank, Jesse James did have connections to several confederate groups…."

        Okay then. So show me the documents… Show me some proof that Jesse and Frank were apart of the KKK. This should be easy for you since you hate blacks so much. Your email photos of Obama hanging with chicken and watermelon showed your true character. Don't think I forgot your admitted racism. ;-)

        "I could name many other JJ connections to the kkk and neo-confederate groups afterthe war but"

        Okay. So show me these "documented facts". You're the one that thinks Jesse James was a Union bugler and beekeeper. Why do you want Jesse to be a Federal so bad? You're the one fueling a hoax with a debunked claim and fake images. Not me!

        Anyone with common sense can see you're the true fraud running around a couple of scammers spreading lies. The truth of Jesse James is out there. He wasn't James L. Courtney, Travis Barron or Irving Gilmer. Your lies and blatant fraud still gets you nowhere! Just ask the judge that kicked Boop out of court 10 years ago for lies and altering photos! Better yet, take it up with the state of Missouri and Jesse's real great-granddaughter Betty Barr!

        All those empty words and nothing changes. You're a lost cause, fraudboy!

      • 88.3.7
        Greg Ellison says:

        Your nemesis Walt Howle, that also removed you permanantly for all of Delphi, removed Eric James post, Then Marvin Leslie (Butch) told Eric James to make a public apology or he would be removed from the forum. Eric James refuse and he was removed.

        What do you not understand about something that is right in front of your face in black and white?

        Greg Ellison

      • 88.3.8
        Frank says:

        "Your nemesis Walt Howle, that also removed you permanantly for all of Delphi, removed Eric James post, Then Marvin Leslie (Butch) told Eric James to make a public apology or he would be removed from the forum. Eric James refuse and he was removed. "

        Walt Howle? Don't know the guy. However, I am welcome on every respected historical site. You are not. So much for this "Walt Howle".

        "What do you not understand about something that is right in front of your face in black and white?"

        You tell me. But before you do, get to all those questions you left unanswered.

        Why are you such a fraud though? I mean seriously? Eric James isn't the one out there trying to make a buck off of a hoax and fake images. That's all Greg Ellison and Betty Boop. ;-)

      • 88.3.9
        John Smith says:

        Dallas,
        You are correct in stating that Jason James wrote that he was a member of the KKK, bulldozers, and the White Camellias. He also said he was a Texas Ranger for a very short time. He was a Confederate Cavalry Captain, and his force was under William Clarke Quantrill for part of the Civil War.
        Can you provide a link to his autobiography where he stated the he was a member of the James Gang? It seems to me that Jason was in Louisiana when he surrendered at the end of the Civil War, then he was in Morehouse Parish in Louisiana in the 1870 and 1880 census, and of course Jesse was killed in 1882. Or in your case, James Lafayette Courtney was living in Falls County, TX, while Jason James was living in Louisiana. By 1900, Jason is living in Roswell, Chaves County, NM.
        You have made an unequivocal statement that Jason James was a cousin of Jesse James, and that these are documented and researched facts. As such, I assume you are prepared to cite references and sources to prove that Jason James and Jesse James were cousins. You did not indicate the degree of relationship, but I assume you meant they were 1st cousins and would have a common set of grandparents.
        Jason Walker James was born 28 April 1843 in Missouri, according to his death certificate. He died 14 September 1933 in Montell, Uvalde County, TX. His parents were John James and Celia Ann Wallace.
        I believe the following is the correct ancestry of Jesse James, and Jason James, and stand to be corrected if better source records are provided.

        1850 census, La Fayette Co, MO, microfilm page 200b, line 1. John K. James, age 30, born in KY, and Sela A., age 33, have 4 children in the home. Charles T. is 8; Jason W. is 6; William C. is 4; and John is 2.

        One family tree identifies his father as John Kenton James, born 1814 in Mason County, KY, the son of Berryman James (born 16 Jan 1789 in Farquier County, VA).

        Berryman James was the son of Thomas Russell James, born 3 October 1767 in Farquier County, VA

        ****************************************
        Jesse James was the son of Robert Salle James and Zerelda Cole

        Robert Salle James was the son of John Martin James, b. 1775 in Goochland County, VA, and Mary G. Poor.

        John Martin James was the son of William James, b. 1754 in PA, and Mary Hines
        ***********
        I find nothing that indicates Jason James was related to Jesse James in the recent genealogical past.
        Thanks,
        John

      • 88.3.10
        Frank says:

        Very well put, John. What can I say? The boy just loves his fiction!

      • 88.3.11
        Greg Ellison says:

        "Eric James isn't the one out there trying to make a buck off of a hoax and fake images."

        Ha! Eric James has image comparisons all over his website and he is a hog at trying to make money off of the name of Jesse James. His attempt to sell his book through video's before it is even written is shameful:

        http://truewest.ning.com/profiles/blogs/join-a-focus-group-for-eric

        Notice that all of the comments are from the same people that are posting here against us. Just their little group and nobody else!

        Greg Ellison

      • 88.3.12
        Dallas Hunt says:

        Oh spare me the bull crap Frank you fraud. I sent that picture of Obama along with dozens of other photos to you after you sent me a photoshopped photo of my face on another mans body having intercourse with another man. Then you wrote on the photo and I quote "Yuh Dallas, spread that Texas ***, take that ****." You sent that particular photo about twenty times, I know because I have them all saved. Speaking of rascist the man in the photo was black! You then sent a similar but different photo of two gay men with my face from the truewest forum photoshopped on with similar profanity. You sent this to me about a dozen times, I also have them all saved. Anyone who doubts me can contact me through delphi forum or reach me by e-mail by contacting Betty Duke or Greg Ellison on their respective websites. Both have my e-mails, I will not post me e-mail here because of retards like you. I am simply trying to research and you are the fraud. You are guilty of something under the law books called unwanted contact and harassment, I never contacted you but you contacted me often out of the blue to harass me. Your the fraud :) suck it bro, im not scared of you….and im not going to stop looking into James Courtneys story….deal with it :)

      • 88.3.13
        Frank says:

        Stop pretending James L. Courtney was something he wasn't. The same with Jesse James, Travis Barron and Irving Gilmer. Good luck with the state of Missouri, dna and Betty Barr, "bro"!

        Practice honesty. You'll get a lot further in life. :-)

      • 88.3.14
        Frank says:

        "contacting Betty Duke or Greg Ellison on their respective websites"

        haha! Respected by whom? Frauds and more frauds? Not a respected historian or person supports their scam sites. Good one! :-)

      • 88.3.15
        Frank says:

        So why is Eric James a respected historian and welcome in the historical community and you are not, Greg? What does that tell ya'? ;-)

    • 88.4
      Frank says:

      So, by your logic, every guy that claimed to be Jesse James was actually "Jesse James". You also ignored James L. Courtney's diary that's provided here! Sorry. It doesn't add up and that is why it's not regarded as anything serious in the historical community! You're just upset because you made yourself look like a fool again using yet another bogus item. haha!

      J. Frank Dalton wasn't Jesse James. Neither was James Lafayette Courtney, Travis Barron or Irving Gilmer. You're the only one here "spinning" things and running away from simple questions! Keep running, fraud!

      :-)

  89. 89
    Greg Ellison says:

    Mel Graf says:
    2/15/2011 at 4:18 pm

    In reference to post 15.1, The "Jesse James Preservation Trust" is not to be confused with the "James Preservation Trust." The "Jesse James Preservation Trust" is a creation of Greg Ellison as you can see as you scroll down this page:

    http://theellisoncollection.com/pri.php?gal=cs5vrxc4&gid=108

    I agree with Melvin Graf! I created the Jesse James Preservation Trust two years ago to preserve the TRUE history of Jesse James. I love the link Mel!

    Greg Ellison

  90. 90
    Greg Ellison says:

    To ALL,

    This is a very interesting article concerning a letter written by Jesse James in Texas in 1879. Jesse was laughing then just as he is today:

    http://chroniclingamerica.loc.gov/lccn/sn85034336/1879-12-12/ed-1/seq-1/;words=Shepherd+George

    Greg Ellison

    • 90.1
      Frank says:

      If only Jesse Woodson James actually wrote the "letter".

      The letter was found by Dallas Hunt aka Pee Wee Herman, and a woman who posted the letter on BBAM. The competing frauds, Betty Boop, Dallas, Lunatic aka Ellison, and JLC vs. Bud the dud and Sock Monkey Jay and J. Frank Dalton; both parties claim that it proves Jesse James was in Texas. Sock Monkey has claimed for years that Frank, Jesse, and Cole Younger came to Brownwood to visit Bill Anderson, so this, in their eyes, proves that Jesse was in Brownwood in 1879 (letter carries a Brownwood heading). As for the idiot Betty Boop, she thinks that it is proof that James L. Courtney rode over from Blevins in 1879. Such a kidder she is!

      Although the letter is well written, and could not possibly be the work of James L. Courtney, there are plentiful examples of his struggles with spelling and sentence structure in his diary. This is most likely the work of J. Frank Dalton, who many believe, worked for a newspaper in Henderson, Texas.

      William C. Anderson of Brown County, Texas, was not William T. "Bloody Bill" Anderson, although the fool, Jay Longley, persists in proclaiming otherwise. Also claims that Zerelda came to Brownwood for the funeral of Henry Ford which isn't true either. This is just another case of "battle of the frauds".

      Nice try. ;-)

      • 90.1.1
        Dallas Hunt says:

        I see you are lying again like the fraud you are Frank here is the link to the letter that is clearly from 1879! Read it and weep. It is clearly on the front page of an 1879 Lousiana paper and says it first appeared in a Missouri paper so how was it written by Dalton in the 1900's?

        -The Ouachita telegraph. (Monroe, La.) 1865-1889, December 12, 1879-

        I like how you say bbam just like Rollie Taylor does, so your Rollie to? You think you would smarten up after you were visited by the authorities?….Your an idiot, you kow that? I will never stop looking for the truth of Jesse James, you will never make me stop by harassment. Betty and everyone else won't either! Everyone reading these comments can see that all the detractors like you are frauds.

        Your the fraud…try me :)

        http://chroniclingamerica.loc.gov/l…2/ed-1/seq-1/;words=Shepherd+George

      • 90.1.2
        Greg Ellison says:

        Nice spin job by the spin master for the ages! Too bad it is all spin and he doesn't know what he is talking about!

        That letter written by Jesse James on December 12th, 1879 stating that he lives in Texas kills them and they know it!

        Spin away spinmeister! Ha!

        Greg Ellison

      • 90.1.3
        Frank says:

        Dallas, if brains were electricity, you wouldn't have enough energy to run the dynamo in a lightning bug's ass. haha!

        "I see you are lying again like the fraud you are Frank here is the link to the letter that is clearly from 1879! Read it and weep. It is clearly on the front page of an 1879 Lousiana paper and says it first appeared in a Missouri paper so how was it written by Dalton in the 1900's?"

        Looks like I hit a nerve, Pee Wee! You're the only fraud here with a hoax, fake photos and fake information. I'm just going by historical fact — you know, what the State of Missouri, historians and the real James family go by. Do you know how many men out there tried to assume Jesse's name and reputation? Why would Jesse James tell a random newspaper where's he's living or planning to live? Let's also keep in mind that the writing of the article doesn't match James L. Courtney's writing either. That must realllllly upset you, Junior. :-)

        "-The Ouachita telegraph. (Monroe, La.) 1865-1889, December 12, 1879-

        I like how you say bbam just like Rollie Taylor does, so your Rollie to? You think you would smarten up after you were visited by the authorities?….Your an idiot, you kow that? I will never stop looking for the truth of Jesse James, you will never make me stop by harassment. Betty and everyone else won't either! Everyone reading these comments can see that all the detractors like you are frauds."

        Yeah. I'm the "idiot" yet you're the one that ignores scientific and historical evidence, the State of Missouri and the James family. You're not looking for the truth. You're looking to scam and defraud unsuspecting people with theories with no evidence to support them. Let's not forget about the fake photos you use and the fact that Boop has tried to get this going for over 10 years now and achieved NOTHING.

        What does losing a court case because of fake information and altering photos tell you, Junior? Time to wake up! You're just talking a lot of crap you can't back up again and are getting nowhere with it as usual. Where are all these changes? Why hasn't Jesse's life and death changed? You're the true "detractors", frauds and scammers as anyone using a little common sense can see. You have no proof nor any credibility. Deal with it. :-)

        "Your the fraud…try me :)

        http://chroniclingamerica.loc.gov/l…2/ed-1/seq-1/;words=Shepherd+George"

        *Requested resource could not be found.*

        I tried and you failed….AGAIN, fraud. Now, take your case to the State of Missouri and the Supreme Court. Heck, even try the Smithsonian and Eldon Courtney's dna test. What are YOU so afraid of, hoaxter? Get to it before I come back and piss all over your poor self esteem some more!

        :-)

      • 90.1.4
        Dallas Hunt says:

        I like how you say this:

        "http://chroniclingamerica.loc.gov/l…2/ed-1/seq-1/;words=Shepherd+George"

        *Requested resource could not be found.*

        I tried and you failed….AGAIN, fraud."

        I find it hilarious that you post that it doesnt exist when I can clearly tell you deleted parts of the address and replaced it with dots. Hahahahahaha you are pathetic! :)

        Heres the mess up part you put:

        loc.gov/l…2/ed-1/seq

        Heres the real part that isn't deleted:

        1879-12-12/ed-1/seq

        Heres the full link again so you can enjoy reading it, I posted it 3 times fro your convenience :)

        http://chroniclingamerica.loc.gov/lccn/sn85034336/1879-12-12/ed-1/seq-1/;words=Shepherd+George

        http://chroniclingamerica.loc.gov/lccn/sn85034336/1879-12-12/ed-1/seq-1/;words=Shepherd+George

        http://chroniclingamerica.loc.gov/lccn/sn85034336/1879-12-12/ed-1/seq-1/;words=Shepherd+George

        Your a Yankee anyway why are you even disgracing yourself by reading about Jesse James? He hated Yankees remember? Im just trying to research a historical figure and I have to deal with harassment and threats over e-mail by an idiot like you simply because I am researching stuff…you are a pathetic excuse of a human being. I will never stop researching you know that right? None of us will stop the truth will come out….deal with it you fraud :)

        If anyone reading this wants to have copies of all the harassing e-mails "Frank Cole" aka the idiot posting bullcrap here sent to me just send me a private message through delphi forums here, a dont know if you have to have a delphi account or not to but I am not posting my e-mail here for obvious reasons:

        http://profiles.delphiforums.com/n/pfx/profile.aspx?webtag=dfpprofile000&userid=1889075019&previewMode=true

        -Dallas Hunt

        p.s. Frank…I laugh everytime you post something. If your trying to scare us it doesnt work deal with it fraud :)

      • 90.1.5
        Frank says:

        Are your parents siblings by any chance, Dallas?

        "Heres the full link again so you can enjoy "

        So, you had to correct yourself and give a working link after all. I'm proud of you!

        But dude, you call me a "Yankee" yet you're excusing one for Jesse James! Why do you want Jesse to be some Federal bugler? You're the Yankee from the North – north Dallas! My ancestors fought for the South. Betty Duke's did not, ya' wannabe!

        Regardless, the link takes you to the letter supposedly written by Jesse James, with a Brownwood address in the heading. You seem to hurt your arm petting yourself on the back over your discovery of the letter. You're claiming James L. Courtney wrote the letter. Jay Longley of Brownwood claims J Frank Dalton wrote the letter. Either way, it was not written by Jesse James. Keep trying!

    • 90.2
      Frank says:

      So, by your logic, every guy that claimed to be Jesse James was actually "Jesse James". You also ignored James L. Courtney's diary that's provided here! Sorry. It doesn't add up and that is why it's not regarded as anything serious in the historical community! You're just upset because you made yourself look like a fool again using yet another bogus item. haha!

      J. Frank Dalton wasn't Jesse James. Neither was James Lafayette Courtney, Travis Barron or Irving Gilmer. You're the only one here "spinning" things and running away from simple questions! Keep running, scammer!

      :-)

      • 90.2.1
        Greg Ellison says:

        You are running away from your own name! You can't beat that for a scam, can you?

        Greg Ellison

      • 90.2.2
        Frank says:

        Think before you type, Tombstone Annie, Crow Hance oops I mean Ted, etc.. and all the names you infiltrated every forum that kicked you off. ;-)

        How's the fake images and Irving Gilmer photo going? Gee, you know what? I just checked with the state of Missouri and every legitimate source out there and Jesse's life and death remains the same. Heck, not a one of your bogus images was historically accepted. Your scam isn't working out too well after all I see. How about that, Lunatic?

        ;-)

    • 90.3
      Frank says:

      "Mr. Ellison,

      Can you or Ms. Duke answer these simple questions about the life of her great-grandfather known as James Lafayette Courtney?

      1. Why did he write instructions in his diary to return it to his uncle, E. L. Andruss, of Cass County, MO, the brother of his mother, Dianah Andruss Courtney/Haun?
      2. Why did he write a letter to his 1st cousin, Mary E. Taylor in 1916, stating that he had recently been to see his 96 year old “ma”? Note: Zerelda had been dead for 5 years.
      3. Why did he write in a 1917 letter to his cousin, Mary E. Taylor, that his mother had died the 8th of January 1917? Note: Mrs. D. D. Haun died in Morris County, Kansas, 8 January 1917.
      4. Why did he write this tribute to Andrew Jackson Haun, when Andrew Jackson Haun, a.k.a. Stephen Courtney died, “Paws Death November the 15 1882 Died in Kansas in Moras Co He was borned in East Tenesee and moved to Misouri in 1851 and he Professed Religion in 1852 and was Licensed to Preach and in 1864 he moved to Miami County Kansas and lived there until his death. His funeral preached from 2 Timothy 4 Chapter and Vs 7, and 8. Preached January the 28, 1883. Hymn 568, Methodist hymn. I would not live always & ask not To Stay”. ? Note: Robert Sallee James, father of Jesse James, died in 1850.
      5. Why was he named in the obituary of Robert W. Haun, of Pawnee, OK, as J. L., of Troy, Texas, one of two surviving brothers? T. N. of Parkersville, KS, was the other surviving brother. Note: Troy, Texas, was the home of James Lafayette Courtney for over 50 years.
      6. Why did he receive an Easter card from his “ma” in Parkersville, KS, two years after Zerelda’s death?
      7. Why did he apply for a pension for his service in the Union army and describe the treatment of men in his unit that led to his desertion? Note: Jesse James was a guerrilla that fought the Union forces.
      8. Why did he sell land, under Warranty Deed dated 7 April 1871. James L. Courtney of Miami County, Kansas sold land to William P. Ashby of Johnson County, Missouri, if he had become James L. Haun in the 1870 census of KS?
      9. Why did he write that “Paw” came to see him 28 September 1882 and left for home 13 October? Note: The obituary of Andrew J. Haun notes that he had been on a trip to visit friends in Missouri and Texas, and had returned home October 15.
      10. Why did he have a Bill of Sale notarized for one jack, dated October 1888, Notarized by F. M. Griggs, 20 December 1888, from E. V. Hairston to James L. Courtney, for his brother, R. W. Courtney?

      Mr. Ellison, are you a researcher or just Ms. Duke’s latest shill?"

      Well put, John. Let's see him "spin" that! :-)

      • 90.3.1
        Greg Ellison says:

        TO ALL,

        Why is it that a few individuals using fake names can not see the images for what they are but many, many professional journalist and curators from prodution companies, national television programs, local tv news, national magazines, newspapers and museums can?

        That makes you wonder about the odd posters here, doesn't it?

        Greg Ellison

    • 90.4
      Frank says:

      Why is it that Ellison is not getting anywhere with yet ANOTHER fake image? Why is it that Ellison has no provenance or documentation for anything he claims? Why is it that the historical community and the State of Missouri does not support him?

      Ellison preys on those ignorant to his scam. That really makes you wonder about his lack of credibility, doesn't it? :-)

      • 90.4.1
        Greg Ellison says:

        *Ray County Museum houses my collection.

        *My findings are featured in Wild West Magazine, America's BEST SELLING Western History Magazine.

        *Images from my collection have been used on The History Channel programs in the past with more to come in the future.

        *My images have been featured in many print publications such as newspapers and magazines.

        *My Jesse James photo collection has better provenace than any other Jesse James photo. It comes from the next door neighbor of Jesse James Jr. and relative of Jesse James, Frank Walker Poor! Jesse James Jr. was always raised to believe he was the son of Jesse James.

        Nuff said!

        Greg Ellison

      • 90.4.2
        Frank says:

        3/1/2011 at 6:18 pm
        "*The Ray County Museum in "Missouri" houses my collection."

        You scammed them with misidentified photos and a fake letter. Your "collection" does not match the people you claim them to be. You have zero documentation proving any photo.

        "*My findings are featured in Wild West Magazine, America's BEST SELLING Western History Magazine."

        You have no "findings". Yet again you pulled one over here with a misidentified photo and a fake letter. Your "collection" does not match the people you claim them to be. You have zero documentation proving any photo.

        Give the readers some facts;

        Who identified the people in the image?

        Give the readers of Wild West Magazine, America's BEST SELLING Western History Magazine proof that Jesse is in the photo.

        Give give the readers of Wild West Magazine, America's BEST SELLING Western History Magazine proof that Frank and Annie are in this picture.

        Give give the readers of Wild West Magazine, America's BEST SELLING Western History Magazine proof with footnotes and sources about how you dated this image.

        Do some research and offer the readers of Wild West Magazine, America's BEST SELLING Western History Magazine some proof to support your opinion!

        "*Images from my collection have been used on The History Channel programs in the past with more to come in the future."

        None will "come in the future". Just like all the fake movie deals, etc. you've claimed for years now. Again, you scammed the "program" with misidentified photos and a fake letter. Your "collection" does not match the people you claim them to be. You have zero documentation proving any photo. The History Channel program was also refuted and discarded in the historical community.

        http://ericjames.org/wordpress/2009/11/13/jesse-james-hidden-treasure-bogus-history-fantasy-from-the-history-channel/

        * The body buried in Kearney, Missouri, as Jesse James's was exhumed in 1995 and subjected to mitochondrial DNA typing. The report, prepared by Anne C. Stone, Ph.D., James E. Starrs, L.L.M., and Mark Stoneking, Ph.D., stated the mtDNA recovered from the remains was consistent with the mtDNA of one of James's relatives in the female line. This theme resurfaced in a 2009 documentary, Jesse James' Hidden Treasure, which aired on the History Channel. The documentary was dismissed as pseudo-history and pseudo-science by historian Nancy Samuelson in a review she wrote for Winter, 2009-2010 edition of The James-Younger Gang Journal."

        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesse_James

        So much for that.

        "*My images have been featured in many print publications such as newspapers and magazines. "

        Again, anywhere you took your bogus images you scammed a few suckers. After all, your "collection" does not match the people you claim them to be. You have zero documentation proving any photo.

        "*My Jesse James photo collection has better provenace than any other Jesse James photo. It comes from the next door neighbor of Jesse James Jr. and relative of Jesse James, Frank Walker Poor! Jesse James Jr. was always raised to believe he was the son of Jesse James. "

        You've admitted yourself you didn't have any connection. Your letter is a fake and doesn't name any individual photo. You have zero documentation and provenance for the images you randomly buy on ebay and try to pass off as dead celebrities. Jesse James Jr. IS the son of Jesse Woodson James. Apparently you didn't bother to read his book or the word of his grandmother, Zerelda. If you still have a problem with facts, take it up with Jesse's real great granddaughter Betty Barr and the State of Missouri. :-)

        "Nuff said!"

        Not *enough* apparently. You're still losing with your fakes and this Irving Gilmer photo! After all, where are the changes being made? Whom in the historical community supports you?

        There's your sign!

    • 90.5
      Frank says:

      lol It's just really idiotic to think that Jesse James would let everyone know where he was living in some random newspaper.

      James L. Courtney's words -

      http://www.thomaskinkadechico.com/oldsite/jlcdiary.htm

      As everyone can see, the writing doesn't match the JLC fraud theory!

      J. Frank Dalton it was!

      • 90.5.1
        Dallas Hunt says:

        Wrong again this paper is clearly from 1879. How could Dalton have written it when he only began writing in the 1900's? You lose again, you jackwad :)

        http://chroniclingamerica.loc.gov/lccn/sn85034336/1879-12-12/ed-1/seq-1/;words=Shepherd+George

        HERES A FULL TRANSCRIPT I WROTE OF IT ILL POST IT HERE TO MAKE YOU MAD ;)

        621.12 in reply to 621.11

        [Below Taken From--: The Ouachita Telegraph. (Monroe,La.) Dated-Dec,12th,1879]

        Jesse James Heard From

        A Remarkable Letter.

        [Hannibal (Mo.) Clipper Herald.]

        Readers of some weeks ago will remember that some weeks ago our reporter caught a nightmare and rode through the labyrinths of Hannibal Cave, where he encountered, as he supposed the, James Boy's Gang, headed by the redoubtable Jesse. The canard has been laughed at time and again in this office, and would have been classed with other forgotten fish stories but for the murder of Jesse James by George Shepard, one of his old chums. This morning we visited the post office as usual, and among other letters found one addressed in a bold, firm hand to the “Editor Clipper-Herald, Hannibal, Mo.,” and bearing the postmark, “Brownwood, Texas.” We opened the letter, and our astonishments may be imagined as we perused the following lines:
        From The Pen of Jesse James.

        Brownwood, The Hardest Town in Texas, Nov. 7, 1879.– To Editor of Herald-Clipper–:

        “Your reporter and George Shepard have the most brilliant imaginations in America. They ought to pull in double harness at the boss hypothecators. They can lie with more appearance of truth than any two men in Missouri. Mark Twain's boss liar who walked twenty miles to show a man a tree 100 feet round, and when he reached the spot where he said the tree was found only a sage-brush, and explained by saying that the tree had sunk during the dry spell, was nothing to them.
        I never saw your cave, and never expect to. The man who runs me into a hole will do more than 'Pinks's' could, as Louis J. Lull can Testify. Lull was game, though; the gamest man that I ever met, and I am glad that he pulled through. I read your reporter's yarn, and myself and my wife laughed heartily over it.
        The description of my appearance, rather of my features,eyes, hair and beard, was accurate. Where did your reporter get it?
        I have just read a telegraphic account of the way George Shepherd got the drop on me, and I'll be damned if I believe it. George Shepherd would never treat me that way. I shot his nephew because I had to, and he knows it. Besides George is no coward and would never have shot me in the back. I wish you newspapermen would charge me with every train robbery and outrage that is committed in Missouri or the West. I had no more to do with the Glendale robbery than you had. The bungling manner in which the robbers allowed the 'dust' to slip through there hands shows this. I would have known what train the bullion was to be forwarded on from Kansas City, and would have stopped that train and no other, bet your life.
        But the very thoughts of old days and old deeds makes my heart beat fast, and I long for the wild reckless past, and but for my wife and boy would again take to the road. As it is, however, I am playing a square game, and have settled down on a ranche about ten miles from this town of Brownwood, and am no longer known as Jesse James. I am not ashamed of my name, but want peace and quiet for my wife's sake. She has saved me from killing myself, and if I am let alone will become a good citizen and grow up in a new life with this great State of Texas.

        Tell your Reporter to 'set ' em up' to the boys around and send the bill to me. I enclose a photo which was taken some years ago. It is not a really good picture, but will pass muster. Believe me, yours in thruth,”
        Jesse James

        Read it and weep you fraud :) You dont scare me one bit when you harass me I just laugh aint never giving up Frank…deal with it you fraud.

      • 90.5.2
        Frank says:

        "Wrong again this paper is clearly from 1879. How could Dalton have written it when he only began writing in the 1900's? You lose again, you jackwad :)"

        Look, meathead, are you telling me that J. Frank Dalton was over 50 when he learned to write? Were you there, or is this more of your hearsay BS, FRAUDBOY? ;-)

        You claim to be a "researcher" with big plans to write two books, one about the KGC and the other about Boop's favorite fraud, James L. Courtney. Will a set of 32 crayons come with both coloring books?

        haha!

      • 90.5.3
        Frank says:

        Why wouldn't he? What part of that proves James L. Courtney wrote the letter? Jesse James, an outlaw, would not tell the nation where he plans to live. It's shocking how much you don't know about the man as much as you claim you do.

        But then again, you think and/or want him to be a Union bugler also. I heard a toilet flush — the sound of your lunatic ranting again, Dallas!

      • 90.5.4
        Greg Ellison says:

        Great job, Dallas, exposing Frank for the liar he is!

        Greg Ellison

      • 90.5.5
        Frank says:

        Exposed what, exactly, Lunatic? The fact that I support proven historical fact, the State of Missouri and the real James Family/Betty Barr and you do not? Dallas was defeated as easily as you were. ;-)

  91. 91
    jebediah smith says:

    In the opinion of some there are evidential examples here within arms reach depicting historical blasphemy that is blazoned by the few but repulsive to the many.

    I will simplify my thoughts an bring them down to the base level of what is a sardonic concession on my part, made in an attempt to curry a response from what imo are either the ignorant or 'wanna be' slick .

    Mrs. Betty Duke; you madam appear to some as a historical scofflaw whose interest lays only in bottom line dollars. If this is not reality then please explain your perceived belligerence when faced with answering even this simple question;

    Madam, if Zerelda James died in February of 1911, how is it possible she could communicate with your great- grandfather through United States mail in a postcard years later? Perhaps via conversations with the spirits? No, I think not.

    Might this my dear, be a matter of 'history be damned' and your desire to commune with other people’s money while you're most assuredly care-taking to your profit and bottom line?

    Inquiring minds want to know.

    Good day Mrs. Duke.

    • 91.1
      Greg Ellison says:

      Everytime I see someone performing "heinous acts against the English language" it reminds me of this great book review by Rodger Jacobs:

      The Moments Lost by Bruce Olds
      By Rodger Jacobs 22 April 2008
      Historical revisionist Bruce Olds commits heinous acts against the English language in his sprawling, incoherent novel, The Moments Lost. At times impressive in scope and range, the narrative ultimately suffers and strangulates under the weight of the author’s use and abuse of alliterations and arcane verbs and nouns.

      In his debut novel, Raising Holy Hell (1995), Olds presented a brilliant portrait of fabled abolitionist John Brown, uncovering a psychotic demagogue motivated by fiery religious zealotry.

      John Henry “Doc” Holliday, the consumptive dentist turned gunfighter, came under Olds’ literary microscope in the lackluster Bucking the Tiger (2002), a work of fiction that often veered into a narrative style best rendered by Michael Ondaatje in The Collected Works of Billy the Kid.

      The Moments Lost attempts to recycle and reinvent another dark slice of Americana, taking the reader back in time to 1913 and the bloody copper mine strike in Northern Michigan as seen through the eyes of one Franklyn Shivs, a troubled Wisconsin farm boy. Young Shivs, an autodidact who can quote Flaubert and other masters like a literary-minded parrot, gives up the farm and travels to Chicago in 1900 seeking his fame and fortune as a newspaper wordslinger.

      Turn-of-the-century Chicago is billed as “the wickedest city in the world … packed to the doors with all the riffraff of a thousand towns” and, boy, don’t we know it because Olds keeps the reader rooted in Chicago for 170 meandering pages before the 1913 copper mine uprising even bears relevance to the plot.

      For a spell, Olds is traveling on fertile ground. He exposes the time warp continuum of history, drawing distinct parallels between our postmodern 9/11 world and the seismic upheavals of Chicago, circa 1900-13. This was a time of great catastrophes, such as the Iroquois Theater fire, witnessed by Shivs first-hand, which left 602 Christmas revelers dead. “Sodomite priests” are grabbing the headlines, Socialism is on the rise in answer to “the rapid gathering of wealth and the centering of management of industries into fewer and fewer hands”, and new forms of literature and art are emerging.

      Olds explores this massive social change exhaustively and then ultimately loses his way like a blind man in a mall, straying and perambulating, issuing unwanted and unasked for meditations on the art of writing itself, pondering whether “a new language for the unspeakable” can be invented and musing pretentiously that “words create thought, not vice versa.”

      It is indeed the author’s fetish for words that ultimately dooms The Moments Lost. Words like “adiaphorist” and “anabiotic” fly over the reader’s head like so many lobbed bricks. Alliterations (“the piped peeps of the peepers”) carelessly litter otherwise artful sentences. A careful reading of the following example amply exposes the dog-eared thesaurus lurking behind Olds’ words:

      … certainly he never communicated the sense to his son, but then, he wasn’t the sort to share his counsel, or strut it, commend consolation, ignite debate or stroke it, proffer congratulation, talk sex, politics, business, or religion, cajole or gladhand, trade barbs or bon mots, josh around, or call his one and only affectionate names—horsefly, piss ant, buzz cut, bullethead, bucko, bucky, buckaroo, spike, spud, sluggo or stretch, slim or stubby, satchmo or socks, or sprat or sprout …

      Alliterations and long-lost words serve no point except to break the reader away from what might otherwise be an engrossing moment. Watching Olds conduct linguistic handstands is an experience no Kafka-esque freak show can rival. It takes skill to write without cheap gimmicks and parlor tricks but Olds has forgotten this simple fact and revels in his assumed superiority with words.

      The real moments lost in this near-500-page opus are the moments that comprise a narrative, a novel, a book, a literary text, a story or a tale, a written composition and an engrossing examination, a volume of many sheets bound together, words stitched and sewn to create a fabric, a mosaic, a tableau, a…well, you get the picture.

      • 91.1.1
        Frank says:

        "Everytime I see someone performing "heinous acts against the English language" it reminds me of this great book review by Rodger Jacobs:"

        So, you think of "Rodger Jacobs" every time you attempt to spell?

        Ellison, no one will ever know that you've had a lobotomy, if you wear a wig to hide to the scars and learn to control the slobbering. :-)

      • 91.1.2
        Jebediah Smith says:

        Every time a read about a SCAM this quote come to mind;

        "You can fool some of the people all the time, and those are the ones you want to concentrate on."

        George W. Bush , Washington, DC March 31, 2001

      • 91.1.3
        Greg Ellison says:

        Yep,

        That quote by GW sounds like your MO alright!

        Greg Ellison

      • 91.1.4
        Jebediah Smith says:

        Greg Ellison- you've bought Mrs. Dukes story (or you've been bought!) and seem to pretend to have answers. Here's a question you can answer for her;

        "If Zerelda James died in February of 1911, how is it possible she could communicate with your great- grandfather through United States mail in a postcard years later? Perhaps via conversations with the spirits?"

      • 91.1.5
        Greg Ellison says:

        Jeb,

        I don't speak for "Mrs. Dukes" as you put it.

        Where is your proof that your senario happened?

        Greg Ellison

        PS, GW must have been talking about himself because six months after saying that the United States of America experienced the worst terroist attack in it's history under his watch! It seems he was tha one that was fooled. I guess they were watching him for that reason!

        Greg Ellison

      • 91.1.6
        Jebediah Smith says:

        Mr. Ellison if you don't speak for Mrs. Duke then why have you spent so much time defending her story? She claims this photo as part of her family's history, not your!

        What is your motivation for being on this blog?

      • 91.1.7
        Greg Ellison says:

        Jeb,

        I speak for myself and what I believe and I believe that the photo represents Jesse James aka James L. Courtney! That's what a real man does, he stands behind what he believes while using his real name!

        Why did you ignore my question to you? I would say you had no answer!

        Greg Ellison

      • 91.1.8
        John Smith says:

        Mr. Ellison,

        The scenario occurred, and much to your dismay, it is documented at this link. Both the front and the back of the postcard in question can be viewed.

        Your failure to explain why James L. Courtney wrote to his first cousin that he had visited his 96 year old "ma" in 1916, about 5 years after Zerelda died, clearly shows that James L. Courtney, the Yankee bugler and bee keeper was not Jesse James.

        Good day, Mr. Ellison. Give my condolences to Mr. Dallas Hunt for his futile support of a myth.

      • 91.1.9
        John Smith says:

        Mr. Ellison,

        The scenario occurred, and much to your dismay, it is documented at this link. Both the front and the back of the postcard in question can be viewed.

        http://www.andruss.net/courtne3.htm

        Your failure to explain why James L. Courtney wrote to his first cousin that he had visited his 96 year old "ma" in 1916, about 5 years after Zerelda died, clearly shows that James L. Courtney, the Yankee bugler and bee keeper was not Jesse James.

        Good day, Mr. Ellison. Give my condolences to Mr. Dallas Hunt for his futile support of a myth.

    • 91.2
      Frank says:

      Good points all around, Jebediah. If only they had the answers…

      • 91.2.1
        Greg Ellison says:

        I'm sure Rollie Taylor loves you being his cheerleader! You seem like that kind of guy!

        Greg Ellison

      • 91.2.2
        Frank says:

        Says the gal 'cheerleading' for Betty Duke, a hoax and fake images! Is your keyboard still pink, Greg? bahahaha!

    • 91.3
      Frank says:

      Good quote, Jebediah. More like The Missouri Image Scammer's MO indeed. All those bogus images and a bogus claim and none of it has to do with Jesse Woodson James.

      :-)

  92. 92
    Carol says:

    Ellison is such a scam artist that it wouldn't surprise me one bit if he didn't get a kitchen knife and claim it to be the Spear of Longinus. Duke and Ellison are beyond hope.

    • 92.1
      Frank says:

      ha ha! Indeed, Carol. Frauds through and through.

    • 92.2
      Greg Ellison says:

      Carolyn Stogsdill Holmes,

      I understand how this new information is really affecting your grand scheme but that is why they say "The Truth Hurts", right!

      Greg Ellison

      • 92.2.1
        Frank says:

        "Jesse James faked his death and assumed the identity of Union Soldier bugler and beekeeper James Lafayette Courtney" — Speaking of 'grand scheme'.

        "Bogus historical image collection from a Church Janitor in Rogersville, MO." — Speaking of 'grand scheme'.

        What "new information" is there though? We haven't seen any, scammer!

      • 92.2.2
        Greg Ellison says:

        With facts like these who needs enemys, right? Ha!

        I quote Rollie Taylor and his wishful thinking:

        "James L. Courtney is enumerated in every census year from 1860 through 1930, with the exception of 1870, when he is enumerated as James Haun. He lived under his birth name his entire life with the exception of the 4 times cited above"

        Those four times corrupt Rollie Taylors's entire genealogy of James L. Courtney. Now that is a fact!

        Greg Ellison

    • 92.3
      Frank says:

      Those are facts backed by census records, Lunatic. What "corrupts" anything other than your flawed and idiotic way of thinking? lol

      Too bad for you James L. Courney's history is well documented. Don't be such a fraud.

      • 92.3.1
        Greg Ellison says:

        Census records lie especially when people want them to as Jesse James did!

        With facts like these who needs enemys, right? Ha!

        I quote Rollie Taylor and his wishful thinking:

        "James L. Courtney is enumerated in every census year from 1860 through 1930, with the exception of 1870, when he is enumerated as James Haun. He lived under his birth name his entire life with the exception of the 4 times cited above"

        Those four times corrupt Rollie Taylors's entire genealogy of James L. Courtney. Now that is a fact!

        Greg Ellison

      • 92.3.2
        Frank says:

        "Census records lie especially when people want them to as Jesse James did!"

        They don't lie. Only you and the other scammer does! Trying to make something fit your agenda, eh? Not good enough.

        "With facts like these who needs enemys, right? Ha!"

        What facts? You have none! Ha Ha!

        "I quote Rollie Taylor and his wishful thinking:

        "James L. Courtney is enumerated in every census year from 1860 through 1930, with the exception of 1870, when he is enumerated as James Haun. He lived under his birth name his entire life with the exception of the 4 times cited above"

        Those four times corrupt Rollie Taylors's entire genealogy of James L. Courtney. Now that is a fact!"

        You quote Rollie and documented/historical fact you mean. Care to disprove Rollie? I didn't think so! Run along now and take your bs with you. :-)

      • 92.3.3
        Greg Ellison says:

        I don't have to disprove Rollie. Rollie Taylor admitted that he disproved himself by not being able to explain the reasons for the four times James L. Courtney was not James L. Courtney and his "brother" fifity years later was using a different name!

        You're making a bigger fool of yourself Frank! I love it!

        Greg Ellison

      • 92.3.4
        Frank says:

        "I don't have to disprove Rollie. Rollie Taylor admitted that he disproved himself by not being able to explain the reasons for the four times James L. Courtney was not James L. Courtney and his "brother" fifity years later was using a different name!"

        Where did he admit that? Where did it state he went by Jesse James? Again, it's really too bad for you James L.Courtney's life and death is so well documented. Isn't that diary something? :-)

        "You're making a bigger fool of yourself Frank! I love it!"

        Says the fraud that brought a hoax and Irving Gilmer in a group photo to this site pretending it's James L. Courtney, Jesse James and Travis Barron. Stop embarrassing yourself.

        I have to admit though. I enjoy watching you trip and fall all over yourself. It's even funnier when you evade and dodge questions. That I do LOVE. ;-)

      • 92.3.5
        Jebediah Smith says:

        Well put Frank!

      • 92.3.6
        Frank says:

        "I don't have to disprove Rollie. Rollie Taylor admitted that he disproved himself by not being able to explain the reasons for the four times James L. Courtney was not James L. Courtney and his "brother" fifity years later was using a different name!"

        Quite the contrary. Rollie Taylor didn't admit any such thing! He has explained before that each time other members of the Haun family were involved, James L. Courtney is known as James Haun.

        Would you care to explain why James Haun was never found in any census record after 1870? He certainly lived in Texas, and was still alive in 1928? Where was he in 1880? 1900? 1910? 1920?

      • 92.3.7
        Frank says:

        Thanks, Jeb. Ellison really makes it too easy for all of us. Keep up the good work, pard. ;-)

      • 92.3.8
        Greg Ellison says:

        I don't have to explain Rollie Taylor's wishful thinking, he does!

        Greg Ellison

      • 92.3.9
        Greg Ellison says:

        Rollie Taylor (Jeb) and his wishful thinking:

        "James L. Courtney is enumerated in every census year from 1860 through 1930, with the exception of 1870, when he is enumerated as James Haun. He lived under his birth name his entire life with the exception of the 4 times cited above"

        Those four times corrupt Rollie Taylors's entire genealogy of James L. Courtney. Now that is a fact!

        Greg Ellison

      • 92.3.10
        Frank says:

        "I don't have to explain Rollie Taylor's wishful thinking, he does!"

        So, when backed into a corner with no escape, presented with documented facts, and faced with questions you cannot answer, you play possum and pretend to be dead? ha ha!

      • 92.3.11
        Frank says:

        "Those four times corrupt Rollie Taylors's entire genealogy of James L. Courtney. "

        Since you still have trouble comprehending -

        Quite the contrary. Rollie Taylor has explained before that each time other members of the Haun family were involved, James L. Courtney is known as James Haun.

        Would you care to explain why James Haun was never found in any census record after 1870? He certainly lived in Texas, and was still alive in 1928? Where was he in 1880? 1900? 1910? 1920?

        Still want to play possum? :-)

      • 92.3.12
        Greg Ellison says:

        You said: "Rollie Taylor has explained before that each time other members of the Haun family were involved, James L. Courtney is known as James Haun."

        And exactly why would that be? Rollie fails to explain why he would have to do that! What was he hiding from? Rollie would be laughed out of a serious discussion on the subject as I suspect he has been several times before!

        Greg Ellison

      • 92.3.13
        Frank says:

        Scammer, are you pretending to be stupid, or does it just come naturally to you?

        Remember the Civil War? Remember the Kansas Redlegs and the Missouri Partisan Rangers? Remember that the loyalty of the citizens of Missouri and Kansas was divided during the Civil War? Remember that some men of those states enlisted in the Union army while others joined the southern cause? Remember that there was resentment after the war because of the depredations of the Redlegs and the guerrillas? Guess why the Courtney family moved from Miami County, Kansas to Morris County, Kansas, and changed their surname to Haun. Now that wasn't hard, was it?

        durr dee durr!

  93. 93
    Carol says:

    Next they will be wanting to change the bible because Jesus has the same beard as Jesse did so therefor, Jesus must be Jesse.

    • 93.1
      Frank says:

      I wouldn't doubt it, Carol. It doesn't matter who you are. If you have a beard or moustache then you have to be either Jesse James, James L. Courtney, Travis Barron or Irving Gilmer.

      It's all about the 'stache. ;-)

    • 93.2
      Greg Ellison says:

      Carolyn Stogsdill Holmes,

      Some people are smart enough to see that new information changes what we thought we knew about history as it has in this case and does in many case throughout history.

      Some deny new facts and pretend the new facts don't exist soley to guard their old worn out traditional story as you do.

      Greg Ellison

      • 93.2.1
        Frank says:

        "You just made a complete fool of yourself , F-R-A-N-K!!!"

        Funny! I'm not the one pushing a hoax with fake images onto unsuspecting people. That's all you, Elly! You're actually Betty Duke's fool. How does that feel?

    • 93.3
      Frank says:

      "Some people are smart enough to see that new information changes what we thought we knew about history as it has in this case and does in many case throughout history. "

      Who's some? You, an old loon and a tween? That doesn't count as anything. Where's this "new information" and where are these supposed "changes"? No changes have been made, scammer!

      "Some deny new facts and pretend the new facts don't exist soley to guard their old worn out traditional story as you do."

      But you haven't presented any to deny! Where are these "facts"? Fiction can be fun, eh, scammer? Too bad dna/science, historical records, genealogical records, census records, photographic evidence, The State of Missouri and the James family/Betty Barr doesn't agree with your scam.

      The claim has been around for over 10 years and yet…nothing's changed. Speaking of "worn out". You'd be out of your depth in a parking lot puddle. haha!

      • 93.3.1
        Greg Ellison says:

        You just made a complete fool of yourself , F-R-A-N-K!!!

        Greg Ellison

      • 93.3.2
        Frank says:

        Funny! I'm not the one pushing a hoax with fake images onto unsuspecting people. That's all you, Elly!!! You're actually Betty Duke's fool. How does that feel?

      • 93.3.3
        Greg Ellison says:

        Every publications that my images have been in came to me. I did not go to them. The Ray County Museum and The History Channel came to me, I did not got to them. I have not push my collection on anyone including you. Some are obsessed with it as you are and that's not all bad. No publicity is bad publicity. A motto to live by! Keep it up, Dude! I love it!

        You've worn out your lines. Come up with something new. You are becoming really boring!

        Some people are smart enough to see that new information changes what we thought we knew about history as it has in this case and does in many case throughout history.

        Some deny new facts and pretend the new facts don't exist soley to guard their old worn out traditional story as you do.

        Greg Ellison

      • 93.3.4
        Frank says:

        "Every publications that my images have been in came to me. I did not go to them. The Ray County Museum and The History Channel came to me, I did not got to them. I have not push my collection on anyone including you. Some are obsessed with it as you are and that's not all bad. No publicity is bad publicity. A motto to live by! Keep it up, Dude! I love it!"

        But you're a proven scammer, fraud and habitual liar. Nothing you claim can be taken seriously nor has it ever been true. You have a group of misidentified photos that you're trying to pass off/sell as historical people with no documentation or provenance to support them. It's UNETHICAL of you to do that anywhere. This is why you have a bad reputation and aren't welcome in the historical community.

        "You've worn out your lines. Come up with something new. You are becoming really boring!"

        Says the guy that lacks originality and needs new material. All you offer is just more spin every time you run from facts and disgrace websites with your constant lies.

        "Some people are smart enough to see that new information changes what we thought we knew about history as it has in this case and does in many case throughout history. "

        Speaking of "worn out lines", hypocrite! What "new information" though? Where are these "changes" being made? You're alone with your scam. Too bad you didn't find any suckers here. ;-)

        "Some deny new facts and pretend the new facts don't exist soley to guard their old worn out traditional story as you do."

        What "new facts"? You didn't present any! Jesse James life and death remains the same. James L. Courtney's life and death remain the same. Take your meds, Elly!

      • 93.3.5
        Greg Ellison says:

        This proves you wrong Frank! I never scammed any of those publishers! You are the scammer and everyone with common sense can see that!

        Every publication that my images have been in came to me. I did not go to them. The Ray County Museum and The History Channel came to me, I did not got to them. I have not push my collection on anyone including you. Some are obsessed with it as you are and that's not all bad. No publicity is bad publicity. A motto to live by! Keep it up, Dude! I love it!

        You've worn out your lines. Come up with something new. You are becoming really boring!

        Some people are smart enough to see that new information changes what we thought we knew about history as it has in this case and does in many case throughout history.

        Some deny new facts and pretend the new facts don't exist soley to guard their old worn out traditional story as you do.

        Greg Ellison

      • 93.3.6
        Frank says:

        "This proves you wrong Frank! I never scammed any of those publishers! You are the scammer and everyone with common sense can see that!"

        It proves me right, scammer! You duped them into believing your images were of Jesse James or some other person of history when in fact your images don't look like each other nor the people you claim them to be! Let's not forget the fact that you have zero documentation or provenance for any photo! Just like the Irving Gilmer group photo you're trying to pass off here as James L. Courtney, Travis Barron and Jesse James!

        I'm not the one going around fooling people with fake images and a hoax — that's all you, SCAMMER! Think before you type!

      • 93.3.7
        Frank says:

        "Every publications that my images have been in came to me. I did not go to them. The Ray County Museum and The History Channel came to me, I did not got to them. I have not push my collection on anyone including you. Some are obsessed with it as you are and that's not all bad. No publicity is bad publicity. A motto to live by! Keep it up, Dude! I love it!"

        But you're a proven scammer, fraud and habitual liar. Nothing you claim can be taken seriously nor has it ever been true. You have a group of misidentified photos that you're trying to pass off as historical people with no documentation or provenance to support them. It's UNETHICAL of you to do that anywhere. This is why you have a bad reputation and aren't welcome in the historical community.

        "You've worn out your lines. Come up with something new. You are becoming really boring!"

        Says the guy that lacks originality and needs new material. All you offer is just more spin every time you run from facts and disgrace websites with your constant fraud.

        "Some people are smart enough to see that new information changes what we thought we knew about history as it has in this case and does in many case throughout history. "

        Speaking of "worn out lines", hypocrite! What "new information" though? Where are these "changes" being made? You're alone with your scam. Too bad you didn't find any suckers here. ;-)

        "Some deny new facts and pretend the new facts don't exist soley to guard their old worn out traditional story as you do."

        What "new facts"? You didn't present any! Jesse James life and death remains the same. James L. Courtney's life and death remain the same. Take your meds, Elly!!!

      • 93.3.8
        Greg Ellison says:

        Proving Frank wrong again!

        Every publications that my images have been in came to me. I did not go to them. The Ray County Museum and The History Channel came to me, I did not got to them. I have not push my collection on anyone including you. Some are obsessed with it as you are and that's not all bad. No publicity is bad publicity. A motto to live by! Keep it up, Dude! I love it!

        You've worn out your lines. Come up with something new. You are becoming really boring!

        Some people are smart enough to see that new information changes what we thought we knew about history as it has in this case and does in many case throughout history.

        Some deny new facts and pretend the new facts don't exist soley to guard their old worn out traditional story as you do.

        Greg Ellison

      • 93.3.9
        Frank says:

        "Every publications that my images have been in came to me. I did not go to them. The Ray County Museum and The History Channel came to me, I did not got to them. I have not push my collection on anyone including you. Some are obsessed with it as you are and that's not all bad. No publicity is bad publicity. A motto to live by! Keep it up, Dude! I love it!"

        But you're a proven scammer, fraud and habitual liar. Nothing you claim can be taken seriously nor has it ever been true. You have a group of misidentified photos that you're trying to pass off as historical people with no documentation or provenance to support them. It's UNETHICAL of you to do that anywhere. This is why you have a bad reputation and aren't welcome in the historical community.

        "You've worn out your lines. Come up with something new. You are becoming really boring!"

        Says the guy that lacks originality and needs new material. All you offer is just more spin every time you run from facts and disgrace websites with your constant fraud.

        "Some people are smart enough to see that new information changes what we thought we knew about history as it has in this case and does in many case throughout history. "

        Speaking of "worn out lines", hypocrite! What "new information" though? Where are these "changes" being made? You're alone with your scam. Too bad you didn't find any suckers here. ;-)

        "Some deny new facts and pretend the new facts don't exist soley to guard their old worn out traditional story as you do."

        What "new facts"? You didn't present any! Jesse James life and death remains the same. James L. Courtney's life and death remain the same. Take your meds, Elly!!!

  94. 94
    Chuck Rabas says:

    Historians welcome new information, provided it has reasonable documentation to back it up. Ms Duke's claims come nowhere near meeting that basic standard.

    Having failed in her attempt to convince any but conspiracy nuts, the uninformed and the naive with her first two books, she is about to inflict a third on the public.

    A mountain of documentation shows that her claim is an impossibility.

    The photograph of "Frank and Annie's wedding in Texas" has been shown to have been taken in Clay County, Missouri in late 1888.

    • 94.1
      Greg Ellison says:

      Chuck Rabas is a self proclaimed expert in the field of Jesse James yet he has nothing to offer as far as public publications as evidence of his expertise!

      Now he offers this as fact: "The photograph of "Frank and Annie's wedding in Texas" has been shown to have been taken in Clay County, Missouri in late 1888" yet he nor anyone else has proven this to be fact at all!

      Who's house in Clay County is pictured in the photo? It's not the James Farm in Misoouri!

      How was it proven to be in Clay County?

      What expert made that determination?

      Two women in the photo appear to look like Caroline Quantrell. Which one do you believe is her?

      Armand DeGregoris suggested Irving Gilmer is on the back row while Rollie, Glynda, Sally, Fran and others claim he is the man that we say is Jesse James. Why is your group spilt on this? Irving Gilmer has large lower jaws while Jesse James and narrow lower jaws like the man in the photo does. It's not Gilmer!

      Why would a self proclaimed expert put somehting out as fact when it is far from it while he is trying to condemn someone who he says is doing this very thing. It is because he is blind to his own faults and only sees what he wants to believe as he has made a very good example here for all to see!

      Greg Ellison

  95. 95
    Greg Ellison says:

    TO EVERYONE,

    Why is it that a few individuals using fake names can not see the images for what they are but many, many professional journalist and curators from prodution companies, national television programs, local tv news, national magazines, newspapers and museums can?

    That makes you wonder about the odd posters here, doesn't it?

    Greg Ellison

    • 95.1
      Frank says:

      The list of deception goes on for Captain Spin!

      "Why is it that a few individuals using fake names can not see the images for what they are but many, many professional journalist and curators from prodution companies, national television programs, local tv news, national magazines, newspapers and museums can?"

      Because people aren't gullible suckers that you want them to be. You should be fair and honest with people seeking the truth with documented research, provenance and all around facts to support your claims and images. Thus far, you have not provided any. The only places you've gotten by with you scammed your way in. This is why the state of Missouri, dna, historical fact and the James Family/Betty Barr do not agree nor support your FRAUD. :-)

      "That makes you wonder about the odd posters here, doesn't it?"

      What's more wondering is your lack of credibility and bad reputation. Gee, I wonder why that is, scammer? Try again!

      • 95.1.1
        Greg Ellison says:

        Give me one documented example of a known historian making a negative comment about me in public. Not pseudo historians from a blog were hyperbole rules!

        You can't because there aren't any examples for you to use!

        Greg Ellison

      • 95.1.2
        Frank says:

        Historians became aware of you when you attempted to sell an image you claimed was the captain of the Confederate submarine, H. L. Hunley, in November of 2006. The image in question is of a post war U. S. Navy enlisted sailor — Hardly a Confederate officer. You were exposed by reporter Brian Hicks of the Charleston Post and Courier. Your ebay user name and account 'gm7152', was banned from eBay.

        Historians went around and around with you on Topix for a few years.
        One thing is for sure, you have no shame. Fortunately, Topix eventually pulled the entire thread at the end of August 2009. Additionally, you have been banned from two Delphi forums: "Jesse James Discussion Site" and "James – Younger and Outlaws Family Forum."

        You've been banned (under several different names) from the Northern
        Virginia Relic Hunter's "eBay Fakes Forum," True West Magazine's blog,
        and BJ's Tombstone Discussion site. In all cases, your sole aim is to further your ridiculous collection. No one credible buys into your nonsense.

      • 95.1.3
        Frank says:

        Ellison here nearly got one of his misidentified images on a book
        cover by Laura James about Jesse's son, Jesse E. James. Fortunately,
        the author and publisher were notified in October 2008 about the fraud and the cover was changed with a valid image of Jesse E. James. The book was released around May of 2009.

        Here's some quotes regarding the Laura James scam (Ellison tried to get a misidentified image of Jesse's son, Jesse Edwards James on the cover
        of Laura James book): He said this on Butch's on October 29, 2008 and I quote:

        "That photo isn't one that Phillip saw. It is an almost exact match
        to the known photo of Jesse Jr. and I made the authentication myself."
        http://forums.delphiforums.com/jessejames/messages?msg=889.5

        Then he contradicted himself on http://www.topix.com early in November 2008
        (the discussion has since been deleted by Topix): Quote: "Phillip W. Steele saw the photo and said it comes from the James Family. I compared the photo to a known photo of Jesse Jr. and made the authentication. That is good enough for me and I am the only one that matters to me. Now, if you don't think my verification is accurate it is up to you to find an expert to say it isn't Jesse Jr."

        Laura James got the word and posted this on Delphi
        (http://forums.delphiforums.com/jessejames/messages?msg=889.73):

        Quote: "My book about Jesse Edwards James & Dr. Zeo Wilkins is filled with photos of both that I found on my travels, but all of the photos inside the book came from research libraries and university collections. There is no doubt about the authenticity of the photos inside the book.

        My publisher, Sterling Publishing, created the cover for the book without any input from me. The publisher found Greg Ellison's collection on the internet and decided to use the studio portrait identified as a young Jesse E. James from Mr. Ellison's collection for the cover. I did not know about that decision until after the cover was made and released on the web.

        At this point I do not know what the final cover will look like, but I have asked Sterling to avoid the controversy by using one of the photos I previously supplied. I would hate to think that I could put eight solid years of research into this tale only to have a questioned photo used on the cover. I mean no disrespect to Mr. Ellison, but it is unnecessary to use his Jesse E. James photo. The book will be surprising and controversial enough as is.

        Laura James"

        Some of Ellison's misidentified images are evidently on "extended" display at the Ray County Museum in Richmond, MO. The curator, Karen Bush, has bought into Ellison's fraud and has furthered it. She has been skewered on Delphi's "Jesse James Discussion Site" and throughout the historical community.

        The fact that some of the photos went on display was covered by the local Richmond newspaper. I am aware that the editor didn't respond to letters contesting the "identifications" made by Ellison. Ellison made the following post on March 27, 2009 on Topix: “ALL EMAILS OR STATEMENTS CONCERNING THE ELLISON COLLECTION TO THE MUSEUM OR NEWSPAPER WILL BE AUTOMATICALLY FORWARDED TO ME PER MY REQUEST. ANY DEFAMATION OR HARRASSMENT WILL BE LOGGED AT BOTH ENDS.”

        Quite an interesting statement from a self proclaimed historian.

      • 95.1.4
        Frank says:

        Here are various links to Ellison's activities:

        http://archives.postandcourier.com/archive/arch06/1106/arc11203600963.shtml
        http://archives.postandcourier.com/archive/arch06/1106/arc11293643023.shtml
        http://www.raycountyhistoricalsociety.com/?p=997
        http://www.richmond-dailynews.com/news.php?id=2861
        http://www.southcountymail.com/articles/2009/11/04/news/doc4af09fcaf286b121468959.prt
        http://www.zinio.com/page/?issue=278211826&pg=61&q=greg%20ellison%20jesse%20james
        http://www.zinio.com/pages/417Magazine/Jul-08/278211826/pg-62

        The 417 Magazine article in July 2008 was the first positive public exposure Ellison has had to my knowledge. What he won't tell anyone about is the editor's September 2008 response to the many negative letters ("too numerous" to print) about Ellison and his collection: I quote: "Regarding any images printed in 417 Magazine that were of questionable authenticity or incorrectly identified historical figures, we regret the error.”

        Ellison has been unable to provide a definitive genealogical link between Frank W. Poor and the Poor family connected to Jesse James. Ellison admitted as much himself on January 3, 2009: “I don't believe a solid family connection to the Coles and Poors is needed to prove that Frank W. Poor was in possession of some of JJ's personal belongings. I believe that the "coinsidences", as they are referred to, prove that quite well on their own. I am going to spend quite a bit of time this year going to the areas in question and digging for information from the locals and family to help confirm the collection.”

        Here is a link to 417 Magazine's apology in Sep 08:

        http://www.zinio.com/pages/417Magazine/Sep-08/294670471/pg-26

        The Jesse James Dilemma

        In the July 2008 issue of 417, we ran a story about 417-lander Greg Ellison’s collection of antique photographs. Since the story ran,
        we’ve received a number of letters from readers who study either Jesse
        James or antique photos and disagreed with the authenticity of Ellison’s James Gang photos. The letters are too numerous to run
        here.

        In the story, writer Brian Lipscomb pointed out that not all of Ellison’s collection of James-related photos has been verified but that 25 images were included in a letter of authenticity from a Jesse James historian. Readers questioned the authenticity of the letter itself. Ellison asserts that it is valid. The historian died not too long ago. One reader asked if Ellison paid for the article. He did not.

        Again and I quote: "Regarding any images printed in 417 Magazine that were of questionable authenticity or incorrectly identified historical figures, we regret the error. – Editor"

        Let's not forget about the "Abe Lincoln" photo and that the curator of the
        Lincoln Presidential Library said and I quote "it's not worthy of consideration as being Lincoln". Post 1865 back mark. Reference: "Ohio Photographers: 1839-1900" by Diane VanSkiver Gagel. Link (see J. W. Fessenden):

        http://books.google.com/books?id=LChcvLOmf-UC&pg=PA57&lpg=PA57&dq=ohio+photographers+1866&source=bl&ots=_KJnEp2ozH&sig=mBAtxABJ56EfKRW2DygXujy44Lc&hl=en&ei=CpdaTfzIFMObtwf2spTRCw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CBoQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=ohio%20photographers%201866&f=false

        Old West author Mark Dworkin posted this to Ellison on BJ's Tombstone
        Discussion Forum in Aug 09: Quote: “It would be wonderful to have these
        pictures turn out to be who you claim- they would shed new light on
        historical figures in key ways. But alas, I go back to what I said
        earlier, that is, as of now you have a pile of neat old photos,
        nothing more. No creditable historian can take them seriously.”

        Everyone is capable of doing the math. ;-)

      • 95.1.5
        Greg Ellison says:

        Repeating lies that you have previously told on other blogs does not make them truths!

        417 Magazine received many emails from the same few that are here shameing themselves on this discussion! 417 Magazine lastly published an apology to me for having the names switched for the appropriate images and therefore took full responablity for the errors and the comments!

        Laura James: "I mean no disrespect to Mr. Ellison."
        Laura James already had the book posted on her website with my photo of Jesse Jr. on it when she wrote those words and she knows it and I can prove it. It was only due to the lies by you that she felt threatened to change the image! Anyone reading this can see why see would be threatened by you!

        Karen Bush has seen the Frank Walker Poor provenance and the photographic evidence and agrees with it!

        Your lies about the curator of the Abrham Lincoln Prisidential Library and Museum are laughable. Those are made up words posted by a fraud that never talked with the curator! I visted the curator personally and had many email a phone converstions with him and I know what he said! As a curator of a government owned museum he can not make a determination such as you present! That is a fact and proves you to be the liar you are!

        You simple minded lies go on and on and……………..

        Dworkin's comments were made long before the Poor Provenance (Frank Walker Poor, a relative and living next door to Jesse James Jr.) and other information became fully known! As a "good" researher I'm confident that he would take that into consideration and change his mind if asked about it today. What happened to him anyway?

        I see you couldn't find one "expert" that spoke badly of me, right!

        Greg Ellison

      • 95.1.6
        Frank says:

        "Repeating lies that…"

        Nope! Just reminding the people here of the facts about you!

        "417 Magazine received many emails…"

        More like all its respected readers! 417 apologized to the PUBLIC for getting duped by you and your fake images. They did not apologize to YOU!

        "Laura James already had the book…"

        Yet again you tried to dupe someone else with a misidentified photo. You tried to trick Laura James and she didn't fall for it. You're the only "threat" here with your constant lies and scams!

        "Karen Bush has seen…"

        She didn't see any provenance let alone any documentation proving or supporting any photo. She simply "took your word for it" with your snake-oil salesman charm. Heck, your image don't match the people you claim them to be nor each other in comparison. This is why you're not welcome or taken seriously in the historical community!

        "Your lies about the curator of the Abrham Lincoln Prisidential Library…"

        It's the truth and all one has to do is contact them so they can confirm it. You tried to pull one over on them and they didn't fall for it either. After all, your misidentified photo isn't there now is it? :-)

        "You simple minded lies go on and on and…………….."

        Says the fraud and hypocrite with the "simple minded lies" going "on and on"! haha!

        "Dworkin's comments were made…"

        But there is no provenance. You also admitted to NO CONNECTION. There's the red flag!

        "I see you couldn't find…"

        I found several. Just ask those on every respected historical site. Why is that you're not welcome on True West again? Get a clue! ;-)

      • 95.1.7
        Greg Ellison says:

        Lies and deceptions by Frank! The is the ONLY thing he is good at!

        Greg Ellison

      • 95.1.8
        Frank says:

        I'm not the one perpetuating a hoax with misidentified photos getting banned and discarded by the historical community. That's all you, Missouri Crook! :-)

      • 95.1.9
        Greg Ellison says:

        Cha-Ching!

        Proved you wrong again and you had no comeback except for your silly nonsense!

        Greg Ellison

      • 95.1.10
        Frank says:

        Says the fraud without any comebacks or answers for all the questions he's avoiding on purpose! Keep spinning and running. It's what the Missouri Image Scammer does best!

    • 95.2
      Frank says:

      "Jesse James Jr. was always raised to believe he was the son of Jesse James. Nuff said!"

      Why wouldn't Jesse Edwards James believe he was the son of Jesse James? He witnessed the tragedy of his father's assassination as related in his book written in 1899, "Jesse James, My Father".

      Quote, "The morning my father was murdered we had just finished breakfast. I heard from the front room the loud roar of a shot. My mother rushed in and screamed. I ran in after her and saw my father dead upon the floor, and my mother was down upon her knees by his side and was crying bitterly."

      Compare the credibility of that account Betty Duke's myth about the life of James Lafayette Courtney. Betty Duke has wasted 10 years on a wild goose chase, grasping at straws, praying for evidence, and you've done your part, identifying a 1888 photo of Caroline Quantrill's visit to Clay County as a 1874 photo of the Frank James wedding party in Falls County, TX. bahahahaha!

      Maybe you can come up with an article from the Podunk Times describing what everyone wore and where they went on their honeymoon.

      Next!

      • 95.2.1
        Greg Ellison says:

        Tim Howard saw his father murdered on April 3rd, 1882! It wasn't until after that he was told to change his name to Jesse Edwards James! He had never been know as a James before April 3rd, 1882! He explains this in his book! This proves my facts more than it does your theory!

        That was an easy question. Now explain your spin on it? What was the man and boys name on April 2nd, 1882?

        Greg Ellison

      • 95.2.2
        Frank says:

        Not good enough, Scammer! Betty Duke is trying to sell the "James L. Courtney was really Jesse James" BS, which you have apparently accepted with no proof whatsoever. At the same time, you challenge all the historical evidence that Jesse Edwards James was the son of Jesse James.

        The CA death index shows his birth place as TN, his mother's maiden name as Mimms, his date of birth as 31 August 1875; the fact
        that he defended a son of Zerelda and Reuben's slaves; the fact that he
        wrote a book about his father, Jesse James.

        Your role as a Philadelphia lawyer boils down to employing assinine
        statements one might expect from a mentally retarded ape.

        Try again! ;-)

      • 95.2.3
        Greg Ellison says:

        GOOD ENOUGH! YOU CAN'T PROVE DIFFERENT!

        Tim Howard saw his father murdered on April 3rd, 1882! It wasn't until after that he was told to change his name to Jesse Edwards James! He had never been know as a James before April 3rd, 1882! He explains this in his book! This proves my facts more than it does your theory!

        That was an easy question. Now explain your spin on it? What was the man and boys name on April 2nd, 1882?

        —————————————–
        YOU MISSED THIS ONE!

        Give me one documented example of a known historian making a negative comment about me in public. Not pseudo historians from a blog were hyperbole rules!

        You can't because there aren't any examples for you to use!

        Greg Ellison

      • 95.2.4
        Frank says:

        "GOOD ENOUGH! YOU CAN'T PROVE DIFFERENT!"

        Greggy Pooh, you're very convincing – convincing everyone that reads your posts that you are in urgent need of psychiatrist help. All you want to do is win an argument, facts be damned.

        Certainly Jesse Edwards James had not been told his real name. Try your best to follow this logic:
        1. There was a $10,000 bounty for the capture of Jesse James.
        2. Jesse Woodson James lived under an alias to minimize the constant danger of discovery.
        3. Jesse Edwards James was a child of seven.
        4. Jesse Edwards James had not been told his father was a criminal wanted for robbery.
        5. Would a child of 7 named Jesse James realize that he might cause the death of his father if he told anyone his name, or his father's name was Jesse James?
        6. Under the circumstances, even you would have been smart enough not to reveal your name was Jesse James to a 7 year old, or to tell your son that his name was Jesse Edwards James.

        Do you have a good story explaining how James Lafayette Courtney visited his "ma" 5 years after her death?

        "YOU MISSED THIS ONE!"

        Don't you worry. It's coming. Currently "awaiting moderation".

        Keep digging your hole. ;-)

      • 95.2.5
        Greg Ellison says:

        Poor little Franky spinning his wheels and getting nowhere fast!

        GOOD ENOUGH! YOU CAN'T PROVE DIFFERENT!

        Tim Howard saw his father murdered on April 3rd, 1882! It wasn't until after that he was told to change his name to Jesse Edwards James! He had never been know as a James before April 3rd, 1882! He explains this in his book! This proves my facts more than it does your theory!

        That was an easy question. Now explain your spin on it? What was the man and boys name on April 2nd, 1882?

        —————————————–
        YOU MISSED THIS ONE!

        Give me one documented example of a known historian making a negative comment about me in public. Not pseudo historians from a blog were hyperbole rules!

        You can't because there aren't any examples for you to use!

        Greg Ellison

    • 95.3
      Peter Hubbard says:

      Who identified the people in the image?

      You still have only your opinion and no provenance.

      Give the readers of Wild West Magazine, America's BEST SELLING Western History Magazine proof that Jesse is in the photo.

      Give give the readers of Wild West Magazine, America's BEST SELLING Western History Magazine proof that Frank and Annie are in this picture.

      Give give the readers of Wild West Magazine, America's BEST SELLING Western History Magazine proof with footnotes and sources about how you dated this image.

      Do some research and offer the readers of Wild West Magazine, America's BEST SELLING Western History Magazine some proof to support your opinion!

    • 95.4
      Peter Hubbard says:

      "Why is it that a few individuals using fake names can not see the images for what they are…"

      Mister Ellison, how many fake names do you have?

      "DECEMBER 12, 2010 4:38 AM

      Frank said…
      Greg Ellison aka Missouri Crook,

      Since you couldn't prove your real name (or this photo), how do you defend your Fake Names being banned by the staff of Delphi forums, True West, BJ's Tombstone, etc. so many times?”

      “The short list:

      • CrowHance Oct-25
      • CrowHance_3_ Oct-24
      • Crow_Hance_1 Oct-24
      • Tombstone_Annie Oct-24
      • CrowHance_1_ Oct-23
      • CrowHance1_ Oct-23
      • CrowHance__1 Oct-23
      • CrowHance __5 Oct-22
      • KY_Jelly Oct-22
      • Zeke_5 Oct-22
      • Zeke_Hance5 Oct-22
      • Zeke_154 Oct-21
      • Crow_E3 Oct-21
      • Nut_Sack1 Oct-19
      • Fisting_Firemen9 Oct-19
      • Zeke69 Oct-18
      • Gimme_More Oct-17
      • Dont_Turn_Around Oct-14
      • Ted_Knows1 Oct-14
      • Jesz_Man8 Oct-13
      • Brown_Eye8 Oct-12
      • Never_2_L8 Oct-12
      • Peaches7 Oct-12
      • DallasHunting Oct-11
      • Greg_Does_Dallas2 Oct-9
      • Spread(parkay9) Oct-7”

  96. 96
    Carol says:

    Hats off to M.E. Barron who wrote:

    REPLY: I would like to add to the comments by saying that I am very proud of the Courtney and Barron families for sticking to their guns while enduring many years of unfounded claims and shameless notoriety by Betty Dorsett Duke in a vain attempt to distract from the true family and heritage of James L Courtney, who she claims is actually Jesse James living under an assumed name until he died in 1943. I am very proud of Judge Ross for feeling no need to be goaded and/or bullied into proving to her what he knows is his true heritage.

    And that's exactly what Ms. Duke does. She bullies people into believing her claim. If you choose to differ from her version she continues to insist her's is right regardless of the proof anyone lays on the table and anything others say is a bold face lie.
    Save face Ms. Duke. Your story doesn't float.

    • 96.1
      Greg Ellison says:

      Carolyn Stogsdill Holmes.,

      Betty Duke didn't bully me at all. I looked at the evidence in the images that are pictured in Wild West Magazine and the truth was presented to me with facts to back them up!

      Perhaps M.E. Barron should do the same!

      Greg Ellison

      • 96.1.1
        Frank says:

        But there was no evidence nor any truth to the claim of the 1888 group photo with Irving Gilmer. Where are these facts you speak of?

        M.E. Barron knows her family. You do not.

      • 96.1.2
        Frank says:

        * her or his*

        Lunatic at this time apparently believing JEJ was the son of JWJ and now wallowing in the mud of the pigpen claiming JWJ was JLC.

        haha!

  97. 97
    Dallas Hunt says:

    The frauds who keep lying are hilarious. James Courtney was Jesse James. These people go wherever Bettys info about her great-grandfathers story is told and then lie like a rug. James L. Courtney was proven by the worlds leading authority in facial recognition- Visionics now known as Identix to be Jesse James! Anyways there technology is used in places like Vegas Casinos to identify known cardcheaters. Two other photo experts determined that Courtney was Jesse James. They also compared other family pictures and determined that they were members of The James Family! To see the documents go here:

    http://www.jessejamesintexas.com

    ;)

    • 97.1
      Frank says:

      Only nothing was proven…Too bad for you the "visionics" thing was faked. It's a shame so-called experts missed out on the true identity of Travis Barron and James. L. Courtney -

      freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~jessejames/jamescourtney.html

      It's no wonder why Mr. James, Mr. Courtney and Mr. Barron don't look alike.

      Jesse James' life and death remains the same. James L. Courtney's life and death remains the same. Where are these changes? You lose, fraudboy!

      • 97.1.1
      • 97.1.2
        Dallas Hunt says:

        Visionics now Identix is the leading facial recognition company in the world and they compared the Courtny and Fletch Bagley photo and several others of just James Courtney alone and Courtney was shown to be Jesse James! You lose :) notarized afffidavites are available so…you lose again fraud hahaha! How does it feel to be proven wrong?

        Do you realize the technology involved with the comparisons they used? Obviously you don't because it utilized thousands of points! Ha you don't even know how legit there technology is I heard and read it straight from the horses mouth! James Courtney was Jesse James bettys family and experts say so. We all know things you don't…you really have no ideaz Stop whining yank.

        Oh and you lose hahaha :)

      • 97.1.3
        Dallas Hunt says:

        Wrong again Yankee-Frankie. They are the world leading facial identification experts. They compared several I repeat SEVERAL photos…not just the one that looks the most like Jesse James that you hate. They determined they were of the same man! Ha wrong again Fraud :o

      • 97.1.4
        Frank says:

        Just how soon can we expect the FBI to shutter their fingerprint lab and
        rely on photographs of unknown individuals for positive identification?

        Each fingerprint is unique, and there are no cases of mistaken identification. The same cannot be said of opinions rendered by the victim
        in police line-ups of the possible perpetrators, or of identification in photographs. Travis Barron wasn't James L. Courtney or Jesse James. You have no provenance, but the Barron family does!

        Go blow the Identix smoke at the gullible, Dallas. Retarded doesn't sell here!

  98. 98
    Dallas Hunt says:

    Don't pay attention to anything Carol Holmes says because she uses several aliases and we have proof. Don't listen to anything Frank says either because he is in an ongoing investigation for cyber crimes. He threatened to burn Greg Ellisons house down with his family in it. He has threatened Betty Duke numerous times. He also threatened me and sent me harassing and pornographic emails with my face photoshopped on over the Internet… A felony. And I was a minor at the time!!! He alsoone 4 occasions spammed Greg Ellisons Delphi forum with Porn and threatened to basically kill his daughter. One of the things he posted was titled- Ellison I'm coming for your daughter-. He also posted pictures of men with guns and said things like I'm going to kill you on this forum. All under aliases of course. Anyone who doubts this can email me at:

    Huntd1992 at yahoo.com

    (there is no at just put in an @, I don't kn ow if it will let you post email, and I don't want some spambot picking up my email is why I putt like that.)

    • 98.1
      Frank says:

      Dallas here has a habit of pretending I did these bad things to him when in fact he harassed me through email with photoshopped images of President Obama hanging from a tree with chicken and watermelon below his feet. Not only that, but he sent an image of a crowbar claiming he was going to bash my wife's head in, and another image with a dead deer and a rifle claiming he was going to use that on me.

      This is the tactic of Dallas Hunt when he feels insecure and threatened about his scam/hoax. Carol Holmes helped Betty Duke. She knows the lies and trouble Betty Duke is spreading.

  99. 99
    Dallas Hunt says:

    I'd also Iike to add that Frank always contacted me I never contacted him….and he would do it out of the bluetrying to intimidate me. That is unwanted contact aka harassment. Not to mention that he commited a felony by sending porn over state lines to someone who was 17…me! And threats to! He photoshopped my face on one of two men in a pornographic photo and then sent it dozens of times. Along with similar picture. What an idiot! He keeps saying I posted crap to him blablbla but he is a habitual lier. Also iam not at fault for anything i sent back to him…he contacted me and threatened to in his words "f-me up" and he sent the porn etc. So his point is moot and full of it. He did all of this because I posted the truth about Jesse James who was James Courtney and he hates it lol! They are all total frauds it is unbelievable.

    • 99.1
      Frank says:

      Dallas yet again gives us all spin to excuse his ignorance. He'd rather talk about porn and threats than answer any real questions. Typical ploy of the JLC frauds and/or frauds in general.

      After 10 years the claim remains debunked. Jesse James's life and death remains the same. James L. Courtney's life and death remains the same.

      These two men weren't Travis Barron or Irving Gilmer. It just pisses fraudboy Dallas off to the extreme because he has no proof to back up his bs claims.

      • 99.1.1
        Dallas Hunt says:

        Oh please frank dont be such a fraud. You lose hahahaha :)

      • 99.1.2
        Dallas Hunt says:

        Frankie-Yankie Doodle I wrote you a song:

        Frankie Doodle went to jail a-riding on a pony, blablablblablbla was all he said when he gave his testimony.

        Everyone can plainly see that he is a coward, Hes stuck in the view that Jesse James was Mr. Howard.

        Frankie Doodle went to town a-riding on a pony, he a-stuck a lie into his post and put it up what a phony!

      • 99.1.3
        Frank says:

        Dallas proves he's no better songwriter than he is a researcher or genealogist. If only he didn't believe in myths his nursery rhymes wouldn't be spewing out onto blogs like this.

        Read real stories instead. But start with genealogical records, census records, historical facts but don't forget Union bugler James L. Courtney's diary first — Even in death he sets the record straight.

  100. 100
    Dallas Hunt says:

    Yalls days of harassment are finally coming to an end, yall will be proven wrong and we will be proven right…..deal with it :)

    • 100.1
      Frank says:

      You're the only one harassing people with your bs, fraudboy! You've made no changes. After 10 years and the claim remains debunked.

      Jesse's life and death remains the same. And so does James L. Courtney's. Suck it up, poor sport. ;-)

    • 100.2
      Dallas Hunt says:

      Frank your are I fear…mentally retarded. Do you wear a helmet?

      • 100.2.1
        Frank says:

        Your are? You aren't in the position to label anyone "mentally retarded", fraud. Still pretending that Jesse James was a Union bugler, eh? "

        "Mentally retarded" indeed. haha

  101. 101
    Frank says:

    Greggy Pooh, please tell us how James L. Courtney visited his "ma" in 1916, 5 years after Zerelda died.

    Any day now!

    • 101.1
      Dallas Hunt says:

      Frank oh please just stop being such a fraud. You have no proof for any of your statements :) put up or shut up! Hahahah. Your a coward if there ever was one. :) seriously your pathetic. Yankee Frankee Doodle does us all a favor and go dosomething stupid :)

  102. 102
    Frank says:

    Jesse James timeline after 28 June 1871, the date that Jesse James supposedly showed up in Decatur, Texas, as James Lafayette Courtney.

    Is it your contention, Ellison, that Jesse James did not participate in any of these robberies? If not, can you explain how he commuted from Falls County, Texas, to Missouri?

    Thanks!

    Jesse James Timeline

    April 29, 1872 The James-Younger Gang, including 5 riders, robbed the Bank of Columbia in Columbia, Kentucky, killing cashier R.A.C. Martin in the process. The gang made off with $6,000.
    September 26, 1872 Jesse, Frank, and one other member of their gang robbed the Kansas City Exposition Ticket Office at the fair of $8,000. One girl was shot.
    May 27, 1873 Four members of the James-Younger Gang stole $4,100 from the Ste. Genevieve Savings Bank of St. Genevieve, Missouri. There were no injuries.
    July 21, 1873 The James-Younger Gang robbed their first train near Adair, Iowa. During the robbery, they wrecked the Chicago, Rock Island and Pacific Railroad Train and overturned the engine. The train engineer died in the accident and the gang made off with $3,000 from passengers and funds retrieved from the express car.
    January 15, 1874 Jesse James and four members of the gang robbed their first stagecoach near Hot Springs, Arkansas, taking cash and jewels valued at approximately $3,000. No one was injured. After Jesse's death, a good watch taken from one of the stage passengers was found among his effects.
    January 31, 1874 Five to seven members of the gang held up the St. Louis Iron Mountain & Southern Railroad train at Gads Hill, Missouri making off with $12,000. No one was injured.
    March 10, 1874 Pinkerton agent Joseph Whicher arrives in Clay County, Missouri. He plans to go to the James farm and become acquainted with Jesse and Frank; then capture them. He is advised not to do this, but attempts it anyway. The next day, his body is discovered, shot three times.
    April 23, 1874 Jesse married first cousin Zerelda Amanda Mimms in Kansas City, Missouri. The newlyweds honeymooned in Galveston, Texas.
    June of 1874 Frank James marries Annie Ralston in Omaha, Nebraska. August 30, 1874 The Waverly-Lexington Omnibus Stagecoach was blamed on the James Gang; however, there is some question as to they were actually responsible. No one was injured. December 7, 1874
    The Tishomingo Savings Bank robbery in Corinth, Mississippi is blamed on the James-Younger Gang. $10,000 was taken from the bank and no one was injured. However; the blame for this robbery seems highly unlikely, as the James-Younger Gang robbed a train in Kansas just the very next day.

    December 8, 1874 The Kansas Pacific Railroad in Muncie, Kansas was held up by the James-Younger Gang, who made off with $55,000. No one was injured. January 26, 1875 Thinking that the James Brothers were hiding out at the family farm, six Pinkerton agents surrounded their mother's home near Kearney, Missouri. In an effort to lure them out, the agents tossed a smoke bomb into the house. However, Archie Samuel, thinking it was a loose stick from the fire, tossed it "back" into the fireplace when it exploded. The explosion killed the young boy and took the lower part of Zerelda's arm off.
    August 31, 1875 Jesse Edwards James is born to Zee and Jesse.September 5, 1875 On Jesse's 28th birthday, the James-Younger Gang robbed the Huntington Bank in Huntington, West Virginia making off with somewhere between $10,000-$20,000. One of their gang was shot during the robbery.
    July 7, 1876 The Missouri-Pacific Railroad train in Rockey Cut, Missouri was robbed of $15,000 by the James-Younger Gang.
    September 7, 1876 In the infamous failed attempt to to rob the First National Bank of Northfield, Minnesota the James-Younger Gang was destroyed. Bank cashier Heyman refused to open the safe and ducked down. Angered, Jesse put a pistol to his head and shot him. The shot was heard beyond the bank and when the bank alarm began to go off the Northfield citizens opened fire upon the gang. Charley Pitts and Bill Chadwell were killed. Cole, Jim and Bob Younger were badly wounded but managed to escape. However, they were captured just two weeks later. Frank and Jesse escaped back to Missouri, unharmed.
    February 6, 1878 Robert Franklin James, Frank and Annie's only child, is born at the Walton Farm.
    June 17, 1879 Mary Susan James was born to Jesse and Zee James.
    October 8, 1879 The Chicago, Alton & St. Louis train at Glendale, Missouri was robbed by the James Gang of $40,000.
    September 3, 1880 The brothers made off with $1,800 from a stagecoach in Mammoth Cave, Kentucky. No one was injured.
    February 1881 B. J. Woodson (a Frank James alias) rents a house for $8 a month on Fatherland Street in Nashville, Tennessee. A man by the name of John Davis Howard (a Jesse James alias) comes to visit.
    March 11, 1881 $5200 was taken from a paymaster as he left a bank in Muscle Shoals, Alabama. The James are recognized. No one was injured.
    July 15, 1881 The James Gang rob the Chicago, Rock Island & Pacific Railroad train near Winston, Missouri of $2,000. Frank murdered Frank McMillan and conductor William Westfall.
    September 7, 1881 Their last train robbery was that of the Chicago and Alton train at Blue Cut, near Glendale, Missouri. The gang made off with $3000 in cash and jewelry taken from the passengers.
    December 24, 1881 A Tom Howard (a Jesse James alias) and family rent a house on Lafayette Street in St. Joseph, Missouri.

    April 3, 1882 Bob Ford with his brother Charles enter Jesse's home at about 8:27am. When Jesse turns to straighten a picture on the wall, Bob shoots him just below the right ear, killing him instantly. His body hit the wall then fell to the floor lying on his back. Within no time at all word quickly spread throughout the town that Jesse James had just been assassinated.

    • 102.1
      Greg Ellison says:

      Your problm is not one of those is a provable fact!

      That is the simple answer to you ridiculous question!

      Show some documented facts and I might respond to them!

      Greg Ellison

      • 102.1.1
        Frank says:

        "Your problm is not one of those is a provable fact!"

        Your problem is that it is!

        "That is the simple answer to you ridiculous question!"

        As simple as you are, you still can't answer basic questions or use common sense.

        "Show some documented facts and I might respond to them!"

        Already have and you still evade and dodge, scammer!

      • 102.1.2
        Greg Ellison says:

        Present them then, Son!

        Greg Ellison

      • 102.1.3
        Frank says:

        90.3, 90.4.2, 90.5, 95.1.2, 95.1.3, 95.1.4, 95.2.6, 102, 103,

        In these replies, I have. It's a shame you're not following the discussion, daughter! Now clean the fraudulent crap out of your eyes!

  103. 103
    Frank says:

    "Mr. Ellison,

    Let's try this again. It is obvious 10 questions at once overwhelmed your brain cell, so we will go one at a time. I do not wish to discuss this question on your forum, I simply want a straightforward answer.

    2. Why did James Lafayette Courtney write a letter to his 1st cousin, Mary E. Taylor in 1916, stating that he had recently been to see his 96 year old “ma”? Note: Zerelda had been dead for 5 years. Her obituary shows that she died in 1911.

    Please do not shovel out the BS from Ms. Duke that James Lafayette Courtney, aka Jesse James, regarded Dianah Andrus Haun as his "ma". That explanation is rubbish.

    Thank you."

    So answer John's response. What are you waiting for, Greg?

    :-)

    • 103.1
      Dallas Hunt says:

      Frank if you would actually research and read James Courtney's diary like I have then you would note that after a little more than a year he started referring to Mr. Barron as Paw and his wife Ellon as Ma! That was in 1874, and very common back then. So your point is completely moot! If he took on his cousins name then he would keep in touch with there famly, to make it look like to the rest of his neighbors and his local mailman etc. that he is there son. He would enquire news from them so he could keep up with the "family" going on's and talk about them if that situation ever came up. In fact there is early 1900's letters from him to the Hauns where he even states that he hasn't heard or seen anyone from the family for years! He also enquires about the family! It is on that crappy website trying to disprove him, it actually does the opposite ha! If as David Hedgepeths theory is correct then Andrew Jackson would actually be Robert James and Dianah Courtney would be his step-mom anyway! So he would call her Ma. Hahaha! how does it feel to be proven wrong again? Do you want some tissues? :)

      • 103.1.1
        Frank says:

        Poor Dallas, so desperate that he has been reduced to shovelling barnyard manure for an explanation of why James L. Courtney visited his "ma" 5 years after the death of Zerelda. And that's not even original. Just like a good little puppet, he is parroting Betty Duke's far fetched and obviously false lie. Never mind the fact that, upon the death of Andrew J. Haun, James L.

        Courtney wrote a tribute to his father that included his father's place of birth, date of birth, place of death, year that his father moved from Tennessee to Missouri, year that he moved from Missouri to Miami County, Kansas, and the year he professed religion. Never mind the fact that James L. Courtney wrote that "Paw" came to see him 28 September 1882 and left for home 13 October 1882. Never mind that the published obituary of Andrew J. Haun of Kansas reported that he had been on a trip to visit friends in Missouri and Texas, and then returned home October 15. Never mind the fact that Robert James died in 1850 in California.

        Hoaxes and blantant lies will get you nowhere, kiddo.

  104. 104
    Frank says:

    Regarding the man living in Falls County, Texas -

    Why did James L. Courtney apply for a pension for his service in the Union army and describe the treatment of men in his unit that led to his desertion? Note: Jesse James was a guerrilla that fought the Union forces.

    How would Jesse James have known that James Lafayette Courtney served in the Union army, since James Lafayette Courtney supposedly never came to Texas? How would Jesse James have known how to describe the conditions that led to the desertion of the "real" James Lafayette Courtney? Why did Jesse James need the $6.00 monthly pension if he had two tons of gold and silver as described by Betty Boop in James Genforum post #43878?

    genforum.genealogy.com/james/messages/43878.html

    As anyone can plainly see, Betty Boop has a wonderful imagination and no facts.

  105. 105
    Greg Ellison says:

    GOOD ENOUGH! YOU CAN'T PROVE DIFFERENT!

    Tim Howard saw his father murdered on April 3rd, 1882! It wasn't until after that he was told to change his name to Jesse Edwards James! He had never been know as a James before April 3rd, 1882! He explains this in his book! This proves my facts more than it does your theory!

    That was an easy question. Now explain your spin on it? What was the man and boys name on April 2nd, 1882?

    —————————————–
    YOU MISSED THIS ONE!

    Give me one documented example of a known historian making a negative comment about me in public. Not pseudo historians from a blog were hyperbole rules!

    You can't because there aren't any examples for you to use!

    Greg Ellison

    • 105.1
      Frank says:

      Greggy Pooh, you're very convincing – convincing everyone that reads your posts that you are in urgent need of psychiatrist help. All you want to do is win an argument, facts be damned.

      Certainly Jesse Edwards James had not been told his real name. Try your best to follow this logic:
      1. There was a $10,000 bounty for the capture of Jesse James.
      2. Jesse Woodson James lived under an alias to minimize the constant danger of discovery.
      3. Jesse Edwards James was a child of seven.
      4. Jesse Edwards James had not been told his father was a criminal wanted for robbery.
      5. Would a child of 7 named Jesse James realize that he might cause the death of his father if he told anyone his name, or his father's name was Jesse James?
      6. Under the circumstances, even you would have been smart enough not to reveal your name was Jesse James to a 7 year old, or to tell your son that his name was Jesse Edwards James.

      Do you have a good story explaining how James Lafayette Courtney visited his "ma" 5 years after her death?

      "YOU MISSED THIS ONE!"

      Messages 95.1.2, 95.1.3 and 95.1.4

      You sure did! Now get to those questions you MISSED! haha!

    • 105.2
      Peter Hubbard says:

      If Zerelda Samuel died in February of 1911, how is it possible she could communicate with Duke's great- grandfather through United States mail in a postcard years later? Perhaps via conversations with the spirits?

      Who identified the people in the image?

      You still have only your opinion and no provenance.

      Give the readers of Wild West Magazine, America's BEST SELLING Western History Magazine proof that Jesse is in the photo.

      Give give the readers of Wild West Magazine, America's BEST SELLING Western History Magazine proof that Frank and Annie are in this picture.

      Give give the readers of Wild West Magazine, America's BEST SELLING Western History Magazine proof with footnotes and sources about how you dated this image.

      Do some research and offer the readers of Wild West Magazine, America's BEST SELLING Western History Magazine some proof to support your opinion!

      • 105.2.1
        Peter Hubbard says:

        Who are we today Sybil?

        “The short list:

        • CrowHance Oct-25
        • CrowHance_3_ Oct-24
        • Crow_Hance_1 Oct-24
        • Tombstone_Annie Oct-24
        • CrowHance_1_ Oct-23
        • CrowHance1_ Oct-23
        • CrowHance__1 Oct-23
        • CrowHance __5 Oct-22
        • KY_Jelly Oct-22
        • Zeke_5 Oct-22
        • Zeke_Hance5 Oct-22
        • Zeke_154 Oct-21
        • Crow_E3 Oct-21
        • Nut_Sack1 Oct-19
        • Fisting_Firemen9 Oct-19
        • Zeke69 Oct-18
        • Gimme_More Oct-17
        • Dont_Turn_Around Oct-14
        • Ted_Knows1 Oct-14
        • Jesz_Man8 Oct-13
        • Brown_Eye8 Oct-12
        • Never_2_L8 Oct-12
        • Peaches7 Oct-12
        • DallasHunting Oct-11
        • Greg_Does_Dallas2 Oct-9
        • Spread(parkay9) Oct-7”

    • 105.3
      Greg Ellison says:

      Here is your post, "Peter Hubbard", that you are now running from:

      95.4Peter Hubbard says:
      3/3/2011 at 10:20 am
      "Why is it that a few individuals using fake names can not see the images for what they are…"

      Mister Ellison, how many fake names do you have?

      "DECEMBER 12, 2010 4:38 AM

      Frank said…
      Greg Ellison aka Missouri Crook,

      Since you couldn't prove your real name (or this photo), how do you defend your Fake Names being banned by the staff of Delphi forums, True West, BJ's Tombstone, etc. so many times?”

      “The short list:

      • CrowHance Oct-25
      • CrowHance_3_ Oct-24
      • Crow_Hance_1 Oct-24
      • Tombstone_Annie Oct-24
      • CrowHance_1_ Oct-23
      • CrowHance1_ Oct-23
      • CrowHance__1 Oct-23
      • CrowHance __5 Oct-22
      • KY_Jelly Oct-22
      • Zeke_5 Oct-22
      • Zeke_Hance5 Oct-22
      • Zeke_154 Oct-21
      • Crow_E3 Oct-21
      • Nut_Sack1 Oct-19
      • Fisting_Firemen9 Oct-19
      • Zeke69 Oct-18
      • Gimme_More Oct-17
      • Dont_Turn_Around Oct-14
      • Ted_Knows1 Oct-14
      • Jesz_Man8 Oct-13
      • Brown_Eye8 Oct-12
      • Never_2_L8 Oct-12
      • Peaches7 Oct-12
      • DallasHunting Oct-11
      • Greg_Does_Dallas2 Oct-9
      • Spread(parkay9) Oct-7”

  106. 106
    Frank says:

    Jesse James' life and death remains the same. James L. Courtney's life and death remains the same. Betty Boop's hoax has been around for over 10 years and it remains debunked and discarded.

    Her case was thrown out of court in 1999 for lies and altering photos. There are no changes to the true history of both men. How much of a chance do you think the case has again in a court? You lost, Dallas. Jesse wasn't a Federal no matter how bad you wanted him to be.

    • 106.1
      Dallas Hunt says:

      James courtney was Jesse James. This is a FACT so….get over it Yankee Doodle. Your not very intelligient, coming on here and commenting like this after you were visited by you know who…it's like your stupid??? probably :)

    • 106.2
      Frank says:

      Dallas, you poor sucker. What fact proves your debunked claim? Do you have anything better than "James Lafayette Courtney named one horse John, and another horse Reb?" Or maybe this one: "Barron had sons that fought for the South. Do you think that Barron would have permitted a daughter to marry a Yankee bugle blower?" Then again, Mr. Courtney laid down on the floor after dark with a gun whenever anyone
      approached the house.

      Or maybe an altered and reversed photo of Dianah Andruss Haun incorrectly identified as Zerelda James Samuel. But that is a fake. First Ms. Duke made the discovery that history was wrong; Zerelda had lost her left hand, not her right hand.
      genforum.genealogy.com/cgi-bin/pageload.cgi?discovered,hand::james::6633.html

      But after being proved wrong, she had to photo shop and alter the picture, removing any trace of Dianah's hand, and crop the picture, removing the big four, James Lafayette Courtney, John A. Haun, Theodore N. Haun, and Robert W. Haun, from the photo and leaving only Diana Andruss Haun seated in a chair and then reverse the image so that it would appear that the the right hand was missing, so she could claim it was Zerelda. Of course, the original picture of the big four can be viewed at http://www.andruss.net/courtney.htm
      The group photo of Zerelda, Reuben, and Caroline Quantrill made in 1888 is certainly not proof that James L. Courtney was Jesse Woodson James.

      Can you come up with any verifiable facts? Maybe James L. Courtney was named in Zerelda's will and everyone has just overlooked that fact… You're supporting a lost cause. Stay in school, kiddo.

  107. 107
    Carol says:

    Gregg Ellison
    Bettys story in which you seem to beleive blows your Poor Photo Collection all to hell. If you are supporting that silly woman's claim then you should be promoting her photos in your collection instead of the Poor collection. You acknowledge Jesse Edwards James as the son of Jesse W James in your collection, "Do you not?" I believe your collection is on Jesse James Family and Gang and other Historical Figures
    Historically Accepted Photo of Jesse James. Now tell me if this same photo is Betty's JLC or that the photo bares no interest to her claim. It has to be one of the two. Either it's Jesse James according to your findings or the photo is of JLC.
    Very strong statement from your web site:
    WE FEEL THAT OUR COLLECTION PROVES THE TRADITIONAL STORY OF JESSE AND FRANK JAMES BETTER THAN ANY BOOK EVER HAS. OUR PHOTOS PUT THE JAMES' IN THE RIGHT PLACES AT THE RIGHT TIME THAT HISTORY STATES THEY WERE THERE.

    OUr photos put the James' in the right places at the right time. Was this before you teamed up with Betty Duke? Are you talking about the traditional photos or the now photos that Ms. Duke purchased off ebay. You seem to have jumped the fense on this one.
    Quite a few of your photos are in public domain which means that anyone can sell them. if they so desire.
    No where in your index do you show JLC or any of his family members. And you say you support JLC became Jesse James and lived the remainder of his life in Texas as Ms. Duke believes he did?
    Do you believe her story and if you do, how do you account for your photo collection being of any face value? Seems you collection should now have the correct photos of JLC and family to view rather than the traditional photos and story. Pick a side. As long as you say, "Why yes Betty, it does resemble so and so." You got a happy camper on your hands. For you to have this Poor collection of photos one of you are going to have to let go of one end of the rope. It's either traditional history as your photos back up or Adventures in Courtney Land which you can't seem to get off the ride.
    But two faced aren't you.

    • 107.1
      Greg Ellison says:

      Carolyn Stogsdill Holmes,

      This new find does not affect my collection coming from the Poors. Tim Howard was raised to believe he was Jesse Edwards James and the show continued his entire life. Therefore he thought the Poors were his real relatives and would have treated them as such and vice-versa.

      My collection offers some of the only proof that any of the traditional story is true. I'm proud to have it and so should other Jesse James historians be proud that it exist! I know you have actually agreed with my Poor Collection on several occasions!

      Greg Ellison

      • 107.1.1
        Frank says:

        Yet every historian regards "The Ellison Collection" as bogus and the man behind it as trash. Go figure.

    • 107.2
      John Smith says:

      Carol,

      Wisdom of the ages to live by:

      Never approach a horse from the rear, a bull from the front, or a fool from any direction.

      Never expect to get blood from a turnip or an intelligent answer from a fool.

  108. 108
    Carol says:

    Answer this question Gregg Ellison

    Do you believe James L Courtney was Jesse Woodson James?

    • 108.1
      Greg Ellison says:

      Carolyn Stogsdill Holmes,

      Have I not answered that question enough for you? Did you not read the article in Wild West Magazine? Are you really that dense?

      Greg Ellison

  109. 109
    William Miller says:

    How did you date this photograph? Men didn't start wearing neckties with Windsor knots until the mid or lste 1880's.

    • 109.1
      Greg Ellison says:

      The "Windsor" knot was named for the Duke of Windsor in 1913. You're not seeing a Winsor knot in the photo!

      Greg Ellison

      • 109.1.1
        William Miller says:

        Yes I do see Windsor knots or whatever you'd like to call them. The person you claim is Frank and the person you think might be Jesse James have those kinds of knots.

        It's unmistakeable.

      • 109.1.2
        Peter Hubbard says:

        Greg Ellison:

        If Zerelda Samuel died in February of 1911, how is it possible she could communicate with Duke's great- grandfather through United States mail in a postcard years later? Perhaps via conversations with the spirits?

        Who identified the people in the image?

        You still have only your opinion and no provenance.

  110. 110
    Eldon says:

    Greg the questions are getting stupider than they were before we got the proof.

    • 110.1
      Frank says:

      Eldon, why won't you get a dna test or answer any of the questions? What are you so afraid of? This hoax only shames you and your name.

    • 110.2
      Frank says:

      But then again -

      "25.2.1
      Rollie Taylor says:
      2/16/2011 at 4:36 pm
      Frank,

      The Y chromosome DNA tests were done years ago. Samples provided by descendants of Theodore N. Haun, and a sample from a descendant of his brother, James L. Courtney, indicated that they were closely related, verifying the 1870 KS census where the family group of Andrew J. Haun included brothers James L., Theodore N., John A., and Robert W. Haun. Only James L. chose to live the remainder of his life under his birth name, James L. Courtney. Of course, Ms. Duke disputes these results, just as she disputes the mtDNA test results that show Jesse James is buried in Kearney, MO, or any other evidence which reveals the fallacy of her make believe story. Meanwhile, Ms. Duke has the audacity to claim that Travis Barron was Jesse James, ignoring his correnct identity provided by the Barron family."

      Thanks, Rollie. Always nice to see facts presented.

  111. 111
    Frank says:

    "The Missouri Image Scammer consistently references Ted Yeatman. T. J. Stiles wrote a very scholarly book himself, "Jesse James, The Last Rebel of the Civil War."

    Says Stiles on page 376, "The Fords, Timberlake [Sheriff in Clay County], Zee, and Zerelda all testified at a coroner's inquest immediately following the murder, relating details of the bandit's private life and criminal activies over the last few years. Zerelda in particular captivated the gathering. 'Is that the body of your son?' the coroner asked her. 'It is,' she replied. Then she burst into tears, sobbing, 'Would to God it was not.' Despite the later claims of a large corps of pretenders, there was never any doubt about the identity of the corpse."

    Nothing like a man's mother to properly identify his corpse. And then there was Jesse's brother-in-law, Thomas Mimms, who declared under oath in 1938 that he had identified Jesse's body at his funeral. As even the Missouri Image Scammer concedes, identifications made by family members are as good as it gets.

    Stiles goes on to write how Zee lived in poverty for another 18 years after Jesse's death.

    The frauds will always be like a clown sideshow. "Pretenders" are what these frauds are. The Missouri Image Scammer pretends that he has images of Jesse James and the Liberty Hill boob pretends that she is the great granddaughter of Jesse James. The Smithsonian, the state of Missouri, the city of St. Joseph, the James Farm (to name just a few), will never buy into their fraudulent nonsense nor will reputable historians. Sorry frauds, the day will never come. The frauds have a heck of a lot more people to overcome with their scams than Delphi posters! :)

    Yep, Jesse James died on April 3, 1882. All the smoke and mirrors the frauds attempt to use in their scam just evaporate in the face of that one single fact.

    I hope you write a book on Courtney.

    Mel"

    Very well put, Mel! Nothing but the truth. I love it. :-)

  112. 112
    Gerald Swick says:

    A note to our readers: Wild West magazine and Weider History Group appreciate and value readers' comments and opinions but hope everyone can refrain from personal attacks. Such posts do nothing to lead to better understanding of a topic or to civil discussion. Please express your opinions but respect those of other posters. Thank you.

    • 112.1
      Greg Ellison says:

      Mr. Swick,

      Thank you for stepping in and putting an end to this silly nonsense that has went on here for several days.

      I'm sure it is appreciated by most. I also encourage a civil discussion as you do.

      Greg Ellison

    • 112.2
      Frank says:

      Thank you, Mr. Swick.

  113. 112.1
    Dallas Hunt says:

    Ha I prove you to be a fraud and then you use my name to make me look bad? Your pathetic, I obviously hit a nerve dont be such a puss, frank. Act like a real man and use your real name you fraud, like i do. dont just steal others when they disagree with you, your a sack of crap. Im reporting the comment and emailing everyone else to do it to. Tought luck fraud :)

    The real Dallas Hunt

  114. 112.1
  115. 112.1
    Rollie Taylor says:

    America's sweetheart speaks. Are you auditioning for a position in the diplomatic corps?

  116. 112.1
    Frank says:

    Dallas and Jared should be banned for those kind of remarks! Where are the moderators when you need them?



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