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	<title>Comments on: What If Franco&#039;s Spain Had Entered the War?</title>
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		<title>By: Basque-Spaniard</title>
		<link>http://www.historynet.com/what-if-francos-spain-had-entered-the-war.htm#comment-980997</link>
		<dc:creator>Basque-Spaniard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Mar 2013 13:17:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historynet.com/?p=13682232#comment-980997</guid>
		<description>I have to say that if Franco had entered in the war. I think that the war will be the same like the napoleonic war and will have the same final like we know.
The problem wil be later. ¿Monarchy or republic?. 
Liberal-Monarchy: the same as actual and pro-ally. 
Republic: A satellite country of the soviet Union.

The latest spanish republican elections:
Conservatives: 19%
Liberals: 8%
Labourism: 21%
Comunism: 26%</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have to say that if Franco had entered in the war. I think that the war will be the same like the napoleonic war and will have the same final like we know.<br />
The problem wil be later. ¿Monarchy or republic?.<br />
Liberal-Monarchy: the same as actual and pro-ally.<br />
Republic: A satellite country of the soviet Union.</p>
<p>The latest spanish republican elections:<br />
Conservatives: 19%<br />
Liberals: 8%<br />
Labourism: 21%<br />
Comunism: 26%</p>
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		<title>By: David Menaza</title>
		<link>http://www.historynet.com/what-if-francos-spain-had-entered-the-war.htm#comment-944001</link>
		<dc:creator>David Menaza</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Mar 2013 17:55:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historynet.com/?p=13682232#comment-944001</guid>
		<description>Hi Chris: 

Of course, there´s nothing wrong with being Moorish, excepting the fact that they do not longer exist. We call Moorish (or Mudejars) those muslims living in Christian territory during Medieval and Early Modern Age in the Iberian peninsula. Christians living in Muslim territories were called Mozarabic. Jews were called many things (few of them nice) in both fields, with an ever changing and permeable frontier that separated two civilizations for nearly eight centuries. Moorish were expulsed from Spain by king Philip III in 1615. Most of them settled in Northern Africa.

Regarding to our common friend Basque-Spaniard, I am not implying that he is racist at all, not having the pleasure of his acquaintance. But it was his jumping (erroneous as it turned out) at the possibility of being mistaken for a Moor what prompted my comment. But look, he first defined his religion, then his racial traits.

I myself do not feel pride or shame for my mixed origins. My mother was from Northern Castile (near the Basque Country), my father from Murcia, in Southeasthern Spain, a region conquered first by the Aragonese then by the Castilians in XIIIth century. I cannot trace back my origins more than four or five generations, and I don´t really care. I´ve been raised Catholic, as most people in this country for the last 500 years, and am currently an atheist (but cannot forsake the Holy Mother Church, there is no approved procedure ;-), apparently).

Religion is more important an issue regarding to our nation self-perception than race. Being \clean-blooded\ or of \Old Christian stock\ in opposition to \New Christians\ (that is descended from Muslim or, even worse, Jewish converts) was very important in Renaissance Spain. It supposed a different legal standing, as many institutions enforced from the Late Middle Ages what were called \blood-cleansing statutes\, strikingly similar to those later established in Nazi Germany for access to the SS or to the Nazi Party. First of all these legal compulsions was one approved by Toledo Cathedral Council in 1436, if memory serves me well. Moreover the Inquisition kept a watchful eye on those with insufficient credentials in terms of Christianity. Ironically, many inquisitors themselves were New Christians.

Concerning Celts and Gauls, these are rather vague terms inherited from Roman ethnologists, many of which were also generals and conquerors, like Julius Caesar. When the Romans came to the Iberian peninsula during the Second Punic War (IIIth Century BCE) they found a conglomerate of tribes, slightly less developed than them, with just a few cities, mostly in what is know Andalusia and the Mediterranean façade, and some Greek and Carthaginian foundations. Those peoples closer to them they called Iberians, from the Iberus river (today Ebro) which was settled as a kind of demarcation line splitting Roman and Cathaginian zones of influence. This area formed later the Roman province of Hispania Citerior (in Latin literally: \the Spain closer to us\). The Iberians  probably spoke very dialectalized non Indoeuropean languages and some linguists suppose they are the ancestors of today&#039;s Basque (or Euskera), which some relate with North African Berberian (which is different from the common Maghreb Arabic). Northwestern Spain was the land of the Celts, subdivided in multiple tribes and even less developed than the Iberians. They were related linguistically with Gauls from what today is France and even the northern part of the Italian Peninsula (those tribes that periodically migrated South and sometimes even defeated Roman armies). There was a moving stripe, several hundred miles wide, where Celts and Iberians mixed, and the term Celtiberian came to be used by archaelogists to define their few findings, or rather to conceal their ignorance. The Romans created a province called Hispania Ulterior (\the Spain further from us\) encompassing these lands, before the final subduing of the whole Peninsula by Augustus in the Ist century CE. He also redistributed the territories in three provinces of Imperial rank, Tarraconensis (capital city Tarraco, today Tarragona, southern Catalonia); Lusitania (capital city Emerita Augusta, today Mérida, in Extremadura) &amp; Baetica (capital city Corduba, nowadays Córdoba in Andalusia).

In a way we Spaniards never have ceased to be an uneasy badly-molten bunch of tribes, so bear with us. Some other day we may talk about that island of yours \like a little body with a mighty heart\.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Chris: </p>
<p>Of course, there´s nothing wrong with being Moorish, excepting the fact that they do not longer exist. We call Moorish (or Mudejars) those muslims living in Christian territory during Medieval and Early Modern Age in the Iberian peninsula. Christians living in Muslim territories were called Mozarabic. Jews were called many things (few of them nice) in both fields, with an ever changing and permeable frontier that separated two civilizations for nearly eight centuries. Moorish were expulsed from Spain by king Philip III in 1615. Most of them settled in Northern Africa.</p>
<p>Regarding to our common friend Basque-Spaniard, I am not implying that he is racist at all, not having the pleasure of his acquaintance. But it was his jumping (erroneous as it turned out) at the possibility of being mistaken for a Moor what prompted my comment. But look, he first defined his religion, then his racial traits.</p>
<p>I myself do not feel pride or shame for my mixed origins. My mother was from Northern Castile (near the Basque Country), my father from Murcia, in Southeasthern Spain, a region conquered first by the Aragonese then by the Castilians in XIIIth century. I cannot trace back my origins more than four or five generations, and I don´t really care. I´ve been raised Catholic, as most people in this country for the last 500 years, and am currently an atheist (but cannot forsake the Holy Mother Church, there is no approved procedure ;-), apparently).</p>
<p>Religion is more important an issue regarding to our nation self-perception than race. Being \clean-blooded\ or of \Old Christian stock\ in opposition to \New Christians\ (that is descended from Muslim or, even worse, Jewish converts) was very important in Renaissance Spain. It supposed a different legal standing, as many institutions enforced from the Late Middle Ages what were called \blood-cleansing statutes\, strikingly similar to those later established in Nazi Germany for access to the SS or to the Nazi Party. First of all these legal compulsions was one approved by Toledo Cathedral Council in 1436, if memory serves me well. Moreover the Inquisition kept a watchful eye on those with insufficient credentials in terms of Christianity. Ironically, many inquisitors themselves were New Christians.</p>
<p>Concerning Celts and Gauls, these are rather vague terms inherited from Roman ethnologists, many of which were also generals and conquerors, like Julius Caesar. When the Romans came to the Iberian peninsula during the Second Punic War (IIIth Century BCE) they found a conglomerate of tribes, slightly less developed than them, with just a few cities, mostly in what is know Andalusia and the Mediterranean façade, and some Greek and Carthaginian foundations. Those peoples closer to them they called Iberians, from the Iberus river (today Ebro) which was settled as a kind of demarcation line splitting Roman and Cathaginian zones of influence. This area formed later the Roman province of Hispania Citerior (in Latin literally: \the Spain closer to us\). The Iberians  probably spoke very dialectalized non Indoeuropean languages and some linguists suppose they are the ancestors of today&#039;s Basque (or Euskera), which some relate with North African Berberian (which is different from the common Maghreb Arabic). Northwestern Spain was the land of the Celts, subdivided in multiple tribes and even less developed than the Iberians. They were related linguistically with Gauls from what today is France and even the northern part of the Italian Peninsula (those tribes that periodically migrated South and sometimes even defeated Roman armies). There was a moving stripe, several hundred miles wide, where Celts and Iberians mixed, and the term Celtiberian came to be used by archaelogists to define their few findings, or rather to conceal their ignorance. The Romans created a province called Hispania Ulterior (\the Spain further from us\) encompassing these lands, before the final subduing of the whole Peninsula by Augustus in the Ist century CE. He also redistributed the territories in three provinces of Imperial rank, Tarraconensis (capital city Tarraco, today Tarragona, southern Catalonia); Lusitania (capital city Emerita Augusta, today Mérida, in Extremadura) &amp; Baetica (capital city Corduba, nowadays Córdoba in Andalusia).</p>
<p>In a way we Spaniards never have ceased to be an uneasy badly-molten bunch of tribes, so bear with us. Some other day we may talk about that island of yours \like a little body with a mighty heart\.</p>
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		<title>By: Chris Woolley</title>
		<link>http://www.historynet.com/what-if-francos-spain-had-entered-the-war.htm#comment-943572</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris Woolley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Mar 2013 13:49:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historynet.com/?p=13682232#comment-943572</guid>
		<description>Were Galicains Celtic Gauls in Iberia?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Were Galicains Celtic Gauls in Iberia?</p>
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		<title>By: Chris Woolley</title>
		<link>http://www.historynet.com/what-if-francos-spain-had-entered-the-war.htm#comment-943570</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris Woolley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Mar 2013 13:47:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historynet.com/?p=13682232#comment-943570</guid>
		<description>Whats wrong with being Moorish anyway,Spain makes me laugh how quite alot like to hide 500 years of jewish and arabic blood and influence upon the penisusula, to be basque or spanish or what ever your a mix of african, arabic, jewish, italian, french, geneoan, milanese, byzantine and so on.... deal with the fact that your descendants at some point were not all shining knights in shining armour killing the evil non believers in their reconquistor.
I&#039;m English and i&#039;m not the naive idiot to go around saying i&#039;m Basque not Spanish, i know my linage at some point must have scandanavian or germanic or celtic, or french norman blood to be honest i don&#039;t care, people who go around shouting i&#039;m 100% this or that irratate me, people like that cause these wars to start with, look at Hitler the prick, not german, not Arian, he was Austrian with Jewish blood in him.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Whats wrong with being Moorish anyway,Spain makes me laugh how quite alot like to hide 500 years of jewish and arabic blood and influence upon the penisusula, to be basque or spanish or what ever your a mix of african, arabic, jewish, italian, french, geneoan, milanese, byzantine and so on&#8230;. deal with the fact that your descendants at some point were not all shining knights in shining armour killing the evil non believers in their reconquistor.<br />
I&#039;m English and i&#039;m not the naive idiot to go around saying i&#039;m Basque not Spanish, i know my linage at some point must have scandanavian or germanic or celtic, or french norman blood to be honest i don&#039;t care, people who go around shouting i&#039;m 100% this or that irratate me, people like that cause these wars to start with, look at Hitler the prick, not german, not Arian, he was Austrian with Jewish blood in him.</p>
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		<title>By: David Menaza</title>
		<link>http://www.historynet.com/what-if-francos-spain-had-entered-the-war.htm#comment-941633</link>
		<dc:creator>David Menaza</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 12 Mar 2013 17:21:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historynet.com/?p=13682232#comment-941633</guid>
		<description>And in regard to Franco... he was the quintessential Galician. In Spain we say that if you meet a Galician in a flight of stairs you never know whether he is coming down or climbing up. I don´t think he was very intelligent, and certainly was not cultivated, but he was cunning, in a mean, sordid way. And he outsmarted Hitler. He never threw his lot with anyone till he knew he was going to the winning side. A survivor.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And in regard to Franco&#8230; he was the quintessential Galician. In Spain we say that if you meet a Galician in a flight of stairs you never know whether he is coming down or climbing up. I don´t think he was very intelligent, and certainly was not cultivated, but he was cunning, in a mean, sordid way. And he outsmarted Hitler. He never threw his lot with anyone till he knew he was going to the winning side. A survivor.</p>
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		<title>By: David Menaza</title>
		<link>http://www.historynet.com/what-if-francos-spain-had-entered-the-war.htm#comment-941535</link>
		<dc:creator>David Menaza</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 12 Mar 2013 16:33:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historynet.com/?p=13682232#comment-941535</guid>
		<description>Dear Basque-Spaniard:

Lo de &quot;moron&quot; no significa moro, sino gilipollas; iba dedicado, por lo que puedo colegir, al tal juliani eskobar ese.

Dear all the rest:

There seems to be a funny confusion here. Basque-Spaniard has thought that &quot;moron&quot; adressed to him, and misinterpreted it for the Spanish word for &quot;Moorish&quot;. Basques, in my experience, are quite touchy in terms of race and religion. Anyway, let´s keep it cool, OK? No need to abuse anyone - not even juliani.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dear Basque-Spaniard:</p>
<p>Lo de &#034;moron&#034; no significa moro, sino gilipollas; iba dedicado, por lo que puedo colegir, al tal juliani eskobar ese.</p>
<p>Dear all the rest:</p>
<p>There seems to be a funny confusion here. Basque-Spaniard has thought that &#034;moron&#034; adressed to him, and misinterpreted it for the Spanish word for &#034;Moorish&#034;. Basques, in my experience, are quite touchy in terms of race and religion. Anyway, let´s keep it cool, OK? No need to abuse anyone &#8211; not even juliani.</p>
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		<title>By: Chris Woolley</title>
		<link>http://www.historynet.com/what-if-francos-spain-had-entered-the-war.htm#comment-940741</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris Woolley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 12 Mar 2013 11:57:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historynet.com/?p=13682232#comment-940741</guid>
		<description>Not calling anyone a moron over what nationality or colour skin they have, just the fact they or you? juliani escobar? have called the entire Spanish race cowards, if anything i&#039;d say they were smart to stay out of things, eventually the mediterean would of been reopened regardless of Spanish joining the axis anyway. Franco knew this like you said with his talks in bavaria, spain will not join the war (at this time) weakened army due to the civil war, only 24 divisions and one of which was motorised.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Not calling anyone a moron over what nationality or colour skin they have, just the fact they or you? juliani escobar? have called the entire Spanish race cowards, if anything i&#039;d say they were smart to stay out of things, eventually the mediterean would of been reopened regardless of Spanish joining the axis anyway. Franco knew this like you said with his talks in bavaria, spain will not join the war (at this time) weakened army due to the civil war, only 24 divisions and one of which was motorised.</p>
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		<title>By: Basque-Spaniard</title>
		<link>http://www.historynet.com/what-if-francos-spain-had-entered-the-war.htm#comment-939509</link>
		<dc:creator>Basque-Spaniard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 12 Mar 2013 00:53:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historynet.com/?p=13682232#comment-939509</guid>
		<description>Maybe you will surprised with the last position but when japan imperial army invaded The philippines. This japanese soldiers attacked spanish consulated  in manila and this fact got angry franco and support US in all that they needed.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Maybe you will surprised with the last position but when japan imperial army invaded The philippines. This japanese soldiers attacked spanish consulated  in manila and this fact got angry franco and support US in all that they needed.</p>
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		<title>By: Basque-Spaniard</title>
		<link>http://www.historynet.com/what-if-francos-spain-had-entered-the-war.htm#comment-939493</link>
		<dc:creator>Basque-Spaniard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 12 Mar 2013 00:40:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historynet.com/?p=13682232#comment-939493</guid>
		<description>The only political party that was created buy franco was a coalition of extreme-right, conservatives and liberals.
Extreme-right wanted to joined the axis, conservative wanted to be beligerant and liberals wanted absolutely neutrality. This liberals had got contacts even with churchill. In spain we now that in Franco Era there was two ideological visions, pro-german and pro-british. 
 1939-1943: Extreme-right were at the goverment mostly but Franco prefer to send a blue division of volunteer than enter in the war. 
 1943-1955: Conservatives. 
 1955-1975 the liberals take power.
Franco decided  three positions:
War between Allies and Axis: Neutrality.
War between Russia and Axis: Axis.
War between  Japan and Allies: Ally.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The only political party that was created buy franco was a coalition of extreme-right, conservatives and liberals.<br />
Extreme-right wanted to joined the axis, conservative wanted to be beligerant and liberals wanted absolutely neutrality. This liberals had got contacts even with churchill. In spain we now that in Franco Era there was two ideological visions, pro-german and pro-british.<br />
 1939-1943: Extreme-right were at the goverment mostly but Franco prefer to send a blue division of volunteer than enter in the war.<br />
 1943-1955: Conservatives.<br />
 1955-1975 the liberals take power.<br />
Franco decided  three positions:<br />
War between Allies and Axis: Neutrality.<br />
War between Russia and Axis: Axis.<br />
War between  Japan and Allies: Ally.</p>
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		<title>By: Basque-Spaniard</title>
		<link>http://www.historynet.com/what-if-francos-spain-had-entered-the-war.htm#comment-939458</link>
		<dc:creator>Basque-Spaniard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 12 Mar 2013 00:08:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historynet.com/?p=13682232#comment-939458</guid>
		<description>There is an interview between Ramon Serrano Suñer, the spanish foreighn office, and Hitler in Hitler`s castle in bavaria that is historic. 
Hitler said: Is spain now enter as an ally in the war? 
Ramon Serrano Suñer said: I know that our army is glorious like you said that we are showing in russia, and is true, but hitler, I´m your friend and we will support you if we could, I promise you, but we can´t enter in the war, we have suffer a lot in the civil war and we aren´t prepared to enter in this war.
Then hitler get upset in the chair and hitler said: Ok, now we understand the problem. Now, mariscal keitel will show you the plan to close the mediterranean sea that was prepared to do it a week later when spain entered at the war.


Secondly, I´m not moron I proud catholic with White skin, blonde hair and green eyes.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There is an interview between Ramon Serrano Suñer, the spanish foreighn office, and Hitler in Hitler`s castle in bavaria that is historic.<br />
Hitler said: Is spain now enter as an ally in the war?<br />
Ramon Serrano Suñer said: I know that our army is glorious like you said that we are showing in russia, and is true, but hitler, I´m your friend and we will support you if we could, I promise you, but we can´t enter in the war, we have suffer a lot in the civil war and we aren´t prepared to enter in this war.<br />
Then hitler get upset in the chair and hitler said: Ok, now we understand the problem. Now, mariscal keitel will show you the plan to close the mediterranean sea that was prepared to do it a week later when spain entered at the war.</p>
<p>Secondly, I´m not moron I proud catholic with White skin, blonde hair and green eyes.</p>
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