Comments on: The 6th Panzer Division? http://www.historynet.com/the-6th-panzer-division.htm From the World's Largest History Magazine Publisher Fri, 24 May 2013 06:48:24 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.2 By: bobe http://www.historynet.com/the-6th-panzer-division.htm#comment-802141 bobe Wed, 16 May 2012 16:41:30 +0000 http://www.historynet.com/?p=13682261#comment-802141 STALINGRAD was HELL on earth, nothing in WWII compares to that battle(i mean STALINGRAD/DON/VOLGA area, the battle was not confined to just that city). The carnage on both sides, the epidemic that everybody never talks about, and the final outcome, where most of POW died in about 2 weeks of forced marches. KRUSCHEV had no stomach to see the burning of dead german soldiers after german capitulation. No movies about STALINGRAD in Hollywood. STALINGRAD was HELL on earth, nothing in WWII compares to that battle(i mean STALINGRAD/DON/VOLGA area, the battle was not confined to just that city).
The carnage on both sides, the epidemic that everybody never talks about, and the final outcome, where most of POW died in about 2 weeks of forced marches.
KRUSCHEV had no stomach to see the burning of dead german soldiers after german capitulation. No movies about STALINGRAD in Hollywood.

]]> By: mark http://www.historynet.com/the-6th-panzer-division.htm#comment-544328 mark Sun, 01 May 2011 21:13:40 +0000 http://www.historynet.com/?p=13682261#comment-544328 regarding 'conscripted' troops. The German experience is that for the most part they were used in rear areas for policing, anti-partisan,etc. Most of the 'ost' batallions with a few exceptions would surrender whenever they encountered 'hostile ' forces in the West. In the East they had more motivation to fight (or RUN). They KNEW that Stalin's forces would show them little sympathy. regarding 'conscripted' troops. The German experience is that for the most part they were used in rear areas for policing, anti-partisan,etc. Most of the 'ost' batallions with a few exceptions would surrender whenever they encountered 'hostile '
forces in the West. In the East they had more motivation to fight (or RUN). They KNEW that Stalin's forces would show them little sympathy.

]]> By: Frank Chadwick http://www.historynet.com/the-6th-panzer-division.htm#comment-277831 Frank Chadwick Mon, 17 May 2010 12:11:41 +0000 http://www.historynet.com/?p=13682261#comment-277831 When I taught World War II history at Illinois State University quite a few years ago (as an adjunct instructor) the only text I assigned was an atlas -- Brigadier Peter Young's as I recall. I don't think you can understand military history -- or almost any history -- without understanding the underlying geography. But you do have to be careful. I always recall a piece of advice from (I believe) the Swedish Army's officer training course: "When the map and the terrain disagree, trust the terrain." When I taught World War II history at Illinois State University quite a few years ago (as an adjunct instructor) the only text I assigned was an atlas — Brigadier Peter Young's as I recall. I don't think you can understand military history — or almost any history — without understanding the underlying geography. But you do have to be careful. I always recall a piece of advice from (I believe) the Swedish Army's officer training course: "When the map and the terrain disagree, trust the terrain."

]]> By: Rob Citino http://www.historynet.com/the-6th-panzer-division.htm#comment-272724 Rob Citino Sat, 08 May 2010 00:20:35 +0000 http://www.historynet.com/?p=13682261#comment-272724 henrylim88-- You're right. Maybe it's always hell! --RC henrylim88–
You're right. Maybe it's always hell!
–RC

]]> By: henrylim88 http://www.historynet.com/the-6th-panzer-division.htm#comment-272412 henrylim88 Fri, 07 May 2010 13:34:31 +0000 http://www.historynet.com/?p=13682261#comment-272412 war is hell on earth when both side have about the same firepower,tactics,no surrender no prisoner policy war is hell on earth when both side have about the same firepower,tactics,no surrender no prisoner policy

]]> By: Rob Citino http://www.historynet.com/the-6th-panzer-division.htm#comment-259089 Rob Citino Sat, 24 Apr 2010 01:06:52 +0000 http://www.historynet.com/?p=13682261#comment-259089 To all: I love maps. Anyone who's taken my classes over the course of the past decades knows how much information they can impart. They can tell us what so few are able to envision: the actual shape of a large-scale military operation. They can't say much about spirit, morale, or motivation, of course. But they do put you into the shoes of the commander at the time, helping you to understand why he makes the decisions he does. In other words, they are not "reality," but the image of reality available to the historical actors. And that is a valuable thing, indeed. To all: I love maps. Anyone who's taken my classes over the course of the past decades knows how much information they can impart. They can tell us what so few are able to envision: the actual shape of a large-scale military operation. They can't say much about spirit, morale, or motivation, of course. But they do put you into the shoes of the commander at the time, helping you to understand why he makes the decisions he does. In other words, they are not "reality," but the image of reality available to the historical actors. And that is a valuable thing, indeed.

]]> By: Bill Nance http://www.historynet.com/the-6th-panzer-division.htm#comment-255487 Bill Nance Wed, 21 Apr 2010 12:29:33 +0000 http://www.historynet.com/?p=13682261#comment-255487 In my opinion, to fully understand a battle what you need are a series of maps, preferably for each level of war. Tactical maps generally do a better job of detailing what's going on, but unfortunately, they are often the hardest to build due to the general confusion surrounding such events. I haven't studied the East Front as much, but I know that in the West, there were many occasions of conscript units of soviet and other POWs who would murder their German officers than surrender. However, I wouldn't take this thought too far. The bitter fighting on all fronts attested to both sides being able to produce highly motivated (however they motivated them) and skilled formations. In my opinion, to fully understand a battle what you need are a series of maps, preferably for each level of war. Tactical maps generally do a better job of detailing what's going on, but unfortunately, they are often the hardest to build due to the general confusion surrounding such events.

I haven't studied the East Front as much, but I know that in the West, there were many occasions of conscript units of soviet and other POWs who would murder their German officers than surrender. However, I wouldn't take this thought too far. The bitter fighting on all fronts attested to both sides being able to produce highly motivated (however they motivated them) and skilled formations.

]]> By: Bill Pratt http://www.historynet.com/the-6th-panzer-division.htm#comment-255398 Bill Pratt Wed, 21 Apr 2010 10:49:34 +0000 http://www.historynet.com/?p=13682261#comment-255398 I've often wondered about "impressed" soldier's motivation, who have been captured by the other side and "conscripted" into the opposing forces. Surely, there is plenty of coercion in these cases, but it seems that some soldiers were able to switch sides with remarkable ease. A phenomenon which was common on the eastern front? Maps certainly can be misleading, especially when only labelled at Corps level or higher. It is helpful when formations are labelled (-) or (+) to indicate under or over strength, but that still doesn't tell the whole story. I've often wondered about "impressed" soldier's motivation, who have been captured by the other side and "conscripted" into the opposing forces. Surely, there is plenty of coercion in these cases, but it seems that some soldiers were able to switch sides with remarkable ease. A phenomenon which was common on the eastern front?

Maps certainly can be misleading, especially when only labelled at Corps level or higher. It is helpful when formations are labelled (-) or (+) to indicate under or over strength, but that still doesn't tell the whole story.

]]> By: Patrick Hays http://www.historynet.com/the-6th-panzer-division.htm#comment-254853 Patrick Hays Wed, 21 Apr 2010 01:39:03 +0000 http://www.historynet.com/?p=13682261#comment-254853 Military history maps are a wonder to behold. They show what is and what could have been. They show why an operation work(Case Yellow) and why one did not work(Schlieffein Plan 1914). They so us the glory and the genius of an operation. They do not show us the men on both sides who spill theirs and others blood to make the arrows on the map look brillant. Military history maps are a wonder to behold. They show what is and what could have been. They show why an operation work(Case Yellow) and why one did not work(Schlieffein Plan 1914). They so us the glory and the genius of an operation. They do not show us the men on both sides who spill theirs and others blood to make the arrows on the map look brillant.

]]> By: Luke Truxal http://www.historynet.com/the-6th-panzer-division.htm#comment-254527 Luke Truxal Tue, 20 Apr 2010 20:03:26 +0000 http://www.historynet.com/?p=13682261#comment-254527 Thanks Michael I wasn't trying to get too far off topic. I was having a problem trying to get my point across because how do you judge an unmotivated corps in combat versus a division in defense that is fighting to the death? I think this is one factor of many that are not included on maps which Dr. Citino already pointed out. I was also personally curious because the Germans were facing an enemy that was superior to it in numbers and equipment. How does a division like the 6th not simply break under the pressure being place upon it? Thanks for your answer it was helpful. On a side note I could never be skeptical of the Michael Wittman map created by Dr. Citino. Wittman was correctly labeled as "the greatest." Thanks Michael I wasn't trying to get too far off topic. I was having a problem trying to get my point across because how do you judge an unmotivated corps in combat versus a division in defense that is fighting to the death? I think this is one factor of many that are not included on maps which Dr. Citino already pointed out. I was also personally curious because the Germans were facing an enemy that was superior to it in numbers and equipment. How does a division like the 6th not simply break under the pressure being place upon it? Thanks for your answer it was helpful.

On a side note I could never be skeptical of the Michael Wittman map created by Dr. Citino. Wittman was correctly labeled as "the greatest."

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