Comments on: Survivor Frank Finkel’s Lasting Stand

By: John Koster

John Koster — Thu, 24 Sep 2009 22:10:59 +0000

August Finckle’s height was measured by the Army as 6 feet 1/2 inch in his 20s in 1872. Frank Finkel’s second wife said he was 6 feet tall in his 60s in the 1920s. (People generally lose an inch or so as they age. His hair color and eye color are also consistent.) The handwriting samples from the Army, from a card Finkel mailed in 1914, from the probate of his first wife’s will in 1921 and from his own will in 1930 all show the same handwriting patterns with allowances for the aging process. Two comparative signatures appeared in the June 2007 edition of “Wild West.” The new book “Custer Survivor” shows all the signatures on the original documents and stacks them up for comparison. Louise Barnett and Jeffrey Wert endorsed the research and I understand that Greg Michno thinks Finkle’s presence at the Little Bighorn is probably if not proven.

By: Ken Stasiak

Ken Stasiak — Thu, 24 Sep 2009 21:05:42 +0000

Question: Were Frank Finckle and August Finkcle the same height?

Where can I see examples of the hand writing?

I think this is a really big deal! (if true) What do some of the other Battle authorities think about this?

Come on, Big Deal, Need information,
PS need information
K.D. Stasiak

By: John Koster

John Koster — Thu, 10 Sep 2009 22:05:51 +0000

Ken –

“Custer Survivor” by John Koster will be in print at the end of the year and provides all the documents mentioned in the text. You should be able to buy it at Barnes & Noble or on Amazon. Thanks for your interest.
John Koster

By: Ken Stasiak

Ken Stasiak — Thu, 10 Sep 2009 15:30:03 +0000

Hi John,
Wow, I have been studying the Custer fight for most of my adult life, and have only herd murmers about a possible “genuine” battle survivor. I can’t wait to read about Frank Finkle in detail! Please, hook me up! Where can I read the whole story? Ken Stasiak

By: John Koster

John Koster — Fri, 21 Aug 2009 18:59:06 +0000

Carl Sagan was notably into denial about NDEs and claimed against solid evidence that they were memories of birth trauma, though he was not an MD. He also said that chimpanzees were nicer than we are with only a tourist’s knowledge of primates while Jane Goodall, a real expert who lived with chimps for decades, found to her dismay that they sometimes hunted smaller moneys for kicks or killed one another in family feuds. These are the facts. We have photographs to prove them. Sagan’s infatuation with Darwin as an antidote to religious beliefs that made him uncomfortable led to a reaction-formation that made him incapable of dealing with facts.
The staggering thing about the Frank Finkel case is that nobody ever studied it on a forensic basis — they preferred endless argumentation and debate. The information in “Custer Survivor” will offer documentary proof that would stand up in any criminal or inheritance case. The book also describes how the case got so tangled to begin with — racial prejudice of two different varieties was a big factor but so was the inability of people to think independently and realize that Custer wasn’t Errol Flynn and Indians are human beings — on the average, they have higher IQs than any other race. The Little Bighorn wasn’t Thermopylae either — Benteen and Walter Mason Camp confirmed that anywhere from a dozen to 18 bodies were never found — and when Charles Windolph went back to find Frank Finkel’s body, he couldn’t find it.
When you see the documentation for yourself, you may be convinced or you may choose not to be — but the facts are always the facts.
PS: I’d rather not find out that UFOs are real….they might be like too much like the rest of us….
John Koster

By: Herb L

Herb L — Fri, 07 Aug 2009 03:28:21 +0000

As Carl Sagan, the prominent Astro-Physicist once said re: the possibility of UFO’s visiting earth and being extraterritorial in nature.

“Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof”

I think this statement also fits the Finkle Story. Remember, much of what happened at the Little Big Horn remains an enigma and will be forever open for debate as to who did what, when, and how.

Even many of the ‘known’ Indian Participants stories are in direct conflict with each other, may be self-serving and cannot be completely corroborated by anyone, then or now.

Am I saying the Finkle story is bogus. Absolutely Not!

Like you, I was not there so there is no way to prove or disprove the possibility of this nice story being fact or fiction.

The bottom line for me is this.

The burden of proof does not rest with I/we the readers, but with the author (Finkle) and the publishers of this account, i.e. those who propagate this story as being factual.

To date- not enough evidence can be offered to factually sustain or disprove the believability and credibility of this story. In the end this claim would never pass the standard/burden of proof in a court of law as much of it is based purely upon speculation and hearsay.

Much like UFOs I hope they and the Finkle story can one day be proven beyond a reasonable doubt.

It makes for wonderful reading and folklore in the interim though.

By: John Koster

John Koster — Thu, 25 Jun 2009 20:07:45 +0000

Dear Virginia,

Call the National Archives in Washington DC and ask them to send you some NATF-86 forms for Old Military Records. If you fill one out with all the information you mentioned to the web site, they will send you the man’s personnel file. You can also look for Pension and Land Bounty claims in the same archive.

Best of luck,
John Koster

By: virginia

virginia — Fri, 19 Jun 2009 21:11:09 +0000

Looking for Stimpson, Abner P. (Veternan), Cass County. Enlisted in compan;y L, Second Cavalry as Bugler, Sept 14, 1861 at Niles, for 3 years, age 25. Mustered Oct 2, 1861. Re-enlisted Jan 5, 1864, at Mossy Creek, Tenn. Mustered March 29, 1864. Regimental Bugler April 1, 1864. Mustered out of Macson, Ga Aug 17, 1865.
I am confused that this website is too much and not know where is I looking for history of map for civil war. Hope this help me if get my e-mail? Thank you

By: John Koster

John Koster — Sun, 14 Jun 2009 20:07:14 +0000

Greg, This is John Koster. Thanks for the “great story” comment. A couple of points (1) the 7th Cavalry carried Springfields, not Spencers in 1876 — but a sorrel horse that may have been Finkle’s C Company horse was found at the confluence of the Rosebud and Yellowstone, 80 miles from the Little Bighorn, with the carbine still in the scabbard; (2) the story that Finkle refused to meet another 7th Cavalry veteran is bogus — Charles Windolph didn’t find out that Finkle had survived until after Finkle had died in 1930. (3) there was only one Finkle on the roster ; (4) the story about shooting an Indian after the battle didn’t appear until 1948 and came from Finkle’s second wife, Hermie Speey Finkel Billmeyer — Finkle’s first wide, Delia Rainwater, was part Cherokee and there may have been some projection there. (5) Hermie mentioned that Tom Custer had been Finkle’s company commander and listed all the other sergeants correctly. Neighbors who remember Frank Finkle say that he was a quiet, honest type of man, and the stories that he himself told, as opposed to what Hermie and reporters she talked to afterwards wrote in the newspapers, are all modest and straightfoward. He and a half-dozen others broke out when C Company collapsed but the others were all killed or fatally wounded. (Nathan Short got 25 miles before his horse fell on him and they both died together.) Last but not least, if you can find the article in “Wild West,” check the signatures from August Finkle in 1872 and Frank Finkel in 1921: same handscript. Best wishes.

By: Greg Stoner

Greg Stoner — Sat, 13 Jun 2009 00:34:14 +0000

I am a history buff on Custer and the Liittle bighorn. While in the 1st Cav US Army I studed everything I coul find (Retired in 1995. Some researchers agree on the fact that Finckle/Fincle was a trooper in the 7th CAv. Some say enlistmsannt records show there may have been two Fincle troopers at that time? Road construction workers in the 40’s, found a long dead Cav horse bones, saddle, spencer rifle, brass hardware, half under dirt remains near a river some miles away suggesting that a trroper might have survived. Some say that Fincle was not over 5,11 . His story as told in the 30’s tended to be modest and sounded truthfull but also had some holes in it, example how he played dead shot one indian then found a cabin and two men out in the far boondocks, could not remember much more?? He was shot in the back heil/foot and cut on the face and so on. He refushed to meet with a man still alive in the 30’s from the 7Cav who he claimed to know? Still it is a great story . After the battle many dead could not be IDed , some of the mounts came from KY and could out run the shorter legged poney of the red men so it could be true however Fincle did not say anything about his Co Cpt Tom Custer or at what momment he left the action/battle. So one can not pin point the facts close if he was a real survivor. Some say that he may have been a deserter 2 times and the 2nd time used his own name? Thus did not want to give all the true facts, still it is a great story . I served in the 1st Cav in Korea 1960 Garry Owen..