Comments on: Sand Creek Massacre http://www.historynet.com/sand-creek-massacre.htm From the World's Largest History Magazine Publisher Tue, 21 May 2013 18:13:44 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.2 By: Daniel Rosenthal http://www.historynet.com/sand-creek-massacre.htm#comment-828867 Daniel Rosenthal Wed, 26 Dec 2012 06:18:15 +0000 #comment-828867 Four years later, Black Kettle and his wife were killed in a second attack, this time by Custer and the 7th Cavalry. Custer had been told there were hostile Indians camped in the Washita River valley; his orders were to kill only fighting men; noncombatant women and children were to be taken prisoner and used as "bargaining chips" to obtain more concessions from the Indians. Custer attacked the first village he came to--Black Kettle's--but he had absolutely no idea of who or what he was attacking. He reported 103 killed--but like Chivington's figure of 500 killed at Sand Creek, this was a gross exaggeration. The actual number killed was between 30 and 40 with 38 being the most likely figure. 53 more--all women and children-- were taken prisoner. What Custer did not report was that despite his orders, many of the dead were women and children. George Bent reported that most of those killed were trying to escape through the brush--which the men were using as cover for shooting at the soldiers; the soldiers fired into the brush without knowing who they were shooting at. Women and children who stayed in their teepees during the fighting were, for the most part, not harmed. Custer lost 4 killed and 14 wounded in the attack. Captured Indians told him there were other villages nearby. A detachment of 17 soldiers under major Elliot rode out to investigate--and right into an ambush; all were killed. Custer waited until nightfall, and then withdrew under cover of darkness. He made no effort to recover the bodies of Elliot and his men. The disposition of the Indians attacked at Washita was more ambiguous than those at Sand Creek. Black Kettle was opposed to war with the whites, but had lost most or all of his influence after Sand Creek; probably, many Cheyennes regarded him in much the same way as many Britons regarded Neville Chamberlain during World War II--as an appeaser. Four years later, Black Kettle and his wife were killed in a second
attack, this time by Custer and the 7th Cavalry. Custer had been
told there were hostile Indians camped in the Washita River valley;
his orders were to kill only fighting men; noncombatant women and
children were to be taken prisoner and used as "bargaining chips"
to obtain more concessions from the Indians. Custer attacked the
first village he came to–Black Kettle's–but he had absolutely no idea
of who or what he was attacking. He reported 103 killed–but like
Chivington's figure of 500 killed at Sand Creek, this was a gross
exaggeration. The actual number killed was between 30 and 40 with
38 being the most likely figure. 53 more–all women and children–
were taken prisoner. What Custer did not report was that despite
his orders, many of the dead were women and children. George
Bent reported that most of those killed were trying to escape through
the brush–which the men were using as cover for shooting at the
soldiers; the soldiers fired into the brush without knowing who they
were shooting at. Women and children who stayed in their teepees
during the fighting were, for the most part, not harmed. Custer lost
4 killed and 14 wounded in the attack. Captured Indians told him there
were other villages nearby. A detachment of 17 soldiers under
major Elliot rode out to investigate–and right into an ambush; all
were killed. Custer waited until nightfall, and then withdrew under
cover of darkness. He made no effort to recover the bodies of
Elliot and his men. The disposition of the Indians attacked at Washita
was more ambiguous than those at Sand Creek. Black Kettle
was opposed to war with the whites, but had lost most or all of his
influence after Sand Creek; probably, many Cheyennes regarded
him in much the same way as many Britons regarded Neville
Chamberlain during World War II–as an appeaser.

]]> By: Daniel Rosenthal http://www.historynet.com/sand-creek-massacre.htm#comment-828864 Daniel Rosenthal Wed, 26 Dec 2012 05:48:49 +0000 #comment-828864 "Lieutenant Olney of the First Colorado Cavalry saw a group of 3 women and 5 children captives being escorted by a group of soldiers as prisoners; they were approached by Lieutenant Harry Richmond of the Third Colorado Cavalry who drew his pistol and shot them down one after another while they were begging for mercy; the soldiers whose prisoners they were shrank back, apparently aghast." This was sworn testamony. The execution of unarmed, noncombatant prisoners, whether the village was hostile or not, is murder, pure and simple. There is NO justification for such an act. We condemned and executed Nazi SS troops for similar acts during World War II. As to whether the Cheyennes were hostile or friendly the fact that at least one soldier from Fort Lyon was visiting the camp when the attack occured--would hostile Indians have permitted a visit by a soldier? As for Chivington's responsibility--he reportedly made a speech in Denver some months before in which he said his policy in dealing with Indians was to "kill all, little and big--nits make lice." "Lieutenant Olney of the First Colorado Cavalry saw a group of
3 women and 5 children captives being escorted by a group of
soldiers as prisoners; they were approached by Lieutenant Harry
Richmond of the Third Colorado Cavalry who drew his pistol and
shot them down one after another while they were begging for mercy;
the soldiers whose prisoners they were shrank back, apparently
aghast." This was sworn testamony. The execution of unarmed,
noncombatant prisoners, whether the village was hostile or not, is
murder, pure and simple. There is NO justification for such an act.
We condemned and executed Nazi SS troops for similar acts during
World War II. As to whether the Cheyennes were hostile or friendly
the fact that at least one soldier from Fort Lyon was visiting the
camp when the attack occured–would hostile Indians have permitted
a visit by a soldier?
As for Chivington's responsibility–he reportedly made a speech in
Denver some months before in which he said his policy in dealing
with Indians was to "kill all, little and big–nits make lice."

]]> By: Hennigan http://www.historynet.com/sand-creek-massacre.htm#comment-824941 Hennigan Wed, 21 Nov 2012 02:26:50 +0000 #comment-824941 Lets not forget the order s coming from D.C. About the plain Indians. Lets see if I can remember. "the only good indian is a .... Indian " Lets not forget the order s coming from D.C. About the plain Indians. Lets see if I can remember. "the only good indian is a …. Indian "

]]> By: Christine Smith http://www.historynet.com/sand-creek-massacre.htm#comment-818588 Christine Smith Sun, 23 Sep 2012 23:57:55 +0000 #comment-818588 Agree....I was dismayed and saddened that this piece takes the tone and turn it did......shame, shame, shame....you dishonor the many innocent Cheyenne women and children who were mutilated and murdered that day...... Agree….I was dismayed and saddened that this piece takes the tone and turn it did……shame, shame, shame….you dishonor the many innocent Cheyenne women and children who were mutilated and murdered that day……

]]> By: Kristian http://www.historynet.com/sand-creek-massacre.htm#comment-818152 Kristian Sun, 16 Sep 2012 05:24:44 +0000 #comment-818152 "I went over the ground soon after the battle. I should judge there were between 400 and 500 Indians killed.... Nearly all, men, women, and children were scalped. I saw one woman whose privates had been mutilated." ~ Asbury Bird, Company D of the First Colorado Cavalry "I went over the ground soon after the battle. I should judge there were between 400 and 500 Indians killed…. Nearly all, men, women, and children were scalped. I saw one woman whose privates had been mutilated."
~ Asbury Bird, Company D of the First Colorado Cavalry

]]> By: Kristian http://www.historynet.com/sand-creek-massacre.htm#comment-818151 Kristian Sun, 16 Sep 2012 05:21:08 +0000 #comment-818151 "The dead bodies of women and children were afterwards mutilated in the most horrible manner. I saw only eight. I could not stand it; they were cut up too much...they were scalped and cut up in an awful manner.... White Antelope's nose, ears, and privates were cut off." ~ Private David Louderback, First Cavalry Yes this sounds like you missed a bit of what the witnesses said. "The dead bodies of women and children were afterwards mutilated in the most horrible manner. I saw only eight. I could not stand it; they were cut up too much…they were scalped and cut up in an awful manner…. White Antelope's nose, ears, and privates were cut off."
~ Private David Louderback, First Cavalry

Yes this sounds like you missed a bit of what the witnesses said.

]]> By: Kristian http://www.historynet.com/sand-creek-massacre.htm#comment-818150 Kristian Sun, 16 Sep 2012 05:16:14 +0000 #comment-818150 "After the firing the warriors put the squaws and children together, and surrounded them to protect them. I saw five squaws under a bank for shelter. When troops came up to them they ran out and showed their persons, to let the soldiers know they were squaws and begged for mercy, but the soldiers shot them all.... There were some thirty or forty squaws collected in a hole for protection; they sent out a little girl about six years old with a white flag on a stick; she had not proceeded but a few steps when she was shot and killed. All the squaws in that hole were afterwards killed, and four or five bucks outside. The squaws offered no resistance. Every one I saw dead was scalped. I saw one squaw cut open with an unborn child, as I thought, lying by her side. Captain Soule afterwards told me that such was the fact.... I saw quite a number of infants in arms killed with their mothers." ~ Robert Bent, guide "After the firing the warriors put the squaws and children together, and surrounded them to protect them. I saw five squaws under a bank for shelter. When troops came up to them they ran out and showed their persons, to let the soldiers know they were squaws and begged for mercy, but the soldiers shot them all…. There were some thirty or forty squaws collected in a hole for protection; they sent out a little girl about six years old with a white flag on a stick; she had not proceeded but a few steps when she was shot and killed. All the squaws in that hole were afterwards killed, and four or five bucks outside. The squaws offered no resistance. Every one I saw dead was scalped. I saw one squaw cut open with an unborn child, as I thought, lying by her side. Captain Soule afterwards told me that such was the fact…. I saw quite a number of infants in arms killed with their mothers."
~ Robert Bent, guide

]]> By: Gusten Lutter http://www.historynet.com/sand-creek-massacre.htm#comment-816500 Gusten Lutter Sun, 26 Aug 2012 02:47:18 +0000 #comment-816500 The argument presented here is substantially that of "The Fighting Parson: Biography of Col. John M. Chivington" by Reginald S. Craig, originally published in 1959. He supplies solid references. The argument presented here is substantially that of "The Fighting Parson: Biography of Col. John M. Chivington" by Reginald S. Craig, originally published in 1959. He supplies solid references.

]]> By: R. Hennessey http://www.historynet.com/sand-creek-massacre.htm#comment-791557 R. Hennessey Sun, 04 Mar 2012 15:27:31 +0000 #comment-791557 What a piece of trash! What a piece of trash!

]]> By: Paul M. Segal, Urban Planner. http://www.historynet.com/sand-creek-massacre.htm#comment-784752 Paul M. Segal, Urban Planner. Sat, 17 Dec 2011 03:34:20 +0000 #comment-784752 My nurse claims that she is part Arapaho and a decendent of Red Piper( aka Piper) She said that he was her great greatgrandfather, and had a role in the Col. Covington led massacre. No mention is reported re this Native American man anywhere. I would appreciate any information. My nurse claims that she is part Arapaho and a decendent of Red Piper( aka Piper) She said that he was her great greatgrandfather, and had a role in the Col. Covington led massacre. No mention is
reported re this Native American man anywhere. I would appreciate
any information.

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