Comments on: Royal Navy Commandos in World War II http://www.historynet.com/royal-navy-commandos-in-world-war-ii.htm From the World's Largest History Magazine Publisher Mon, 20 May 2013 14:41:31 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.2 By: Steve http://www.historynet.com/royal-navy-commandos-in-world-war-ii.htm#comment-821224 Steve Mon, 15 Oct 2012 14:12:42 +0000 #comment-821224 My dad Arthur Bowker unfortunately died last Sunday ages 89yrs. The funeral is next Monday. A lot of people are not aware that in the war there were three different types of commando's : Army, Royal Marine and Royal Navy. My father volunteered in 1940 at age 17yrs for the Navy. Then in 1942 he volunteered for the the Royal Naval Commando's with whom he served until 1946. You can recognize the R.N.C. in records as their groups were named by letters of the alphabet (rather than numbers) My dad was in C group. Each commando group was divided into three. I know he was in C3 during training. When he joined C Group they had just lost a lot of men at Dieppe. He said the survivors of Dieppe in his unit never spoke to him or any of the other newcomers about what happened there. They had their own training centre HMS Armadillo on Loch Long at Ardentinny. After Ardentinny he trained at various different places. He never talked much about what happened after his training once he commenced ops. Most of the books say the RNC was disbanded in 1945 but I know my fathers group was fighting the Japenese after VJ into 1946. We now have his service record from which the following is an extract: "....Served Arakan coast Burma, Ramree Island, Malaya, Normandy . Returned to Far East after Normandy as at that time invasion of Japanese mainland was anticipated. Took part in victory parade in Rangoon on VJ day. Continued ops against Japanese after VJ day, including Maldives...." My dad Arthur Bowker unfortunately died last Sunday ages 89yrs. The funeral is next Monday. A lot of people are not aware that in the war there were three different types of commando's : Army, Royal Marine and Royal Navy. My father volunteered in 1940 at age 17yrs for the Navy. Then in 1942 he volunteered for the the Royal Naval Commando's with whom he served until 1946. You can recognize the R.N.C. in records as their groups were named by letters of the alphabet (rather than numbers) My dad was in C group. Each commando group was divided into three. I know he was in C3 during training. When he joined C Group they had just lost a lot of men at Dieppe. He said the survivors of Dieppe in his unit never spoke to him or any of the other newcomers about what happened there.
They had their own training centre HMS Armadillo on Loch Long at Ardentinny. After Ardentinny he trained at various different places. He never talked much about what happened after his training once he commenced ops. Most of the books say the RNC was disbanded in 1945 but I know my fathers group was fighting the Japenese after VJ into 1946. We now have his service record from which the following is an extract:

"….Served Arakan coast Burma, Ramree Island, Malaya, Normandy . Returned to Far East after Normandy as at that time invasion of Japanese mainland was anticipated. Took part in victory parade in Rangoon on VJ day. Continued ops against Japanese after VJ day, including Maldives…."

]]> By: Sheilavee http://www.historynet.com/royal-navy-commandos-in-world-war-ii.htm#comment-788278 Sheilavee Sun, 05 Feb 2012 10:50:41 +0000 #comment-788278 I know that there is a book somewhere which mentions my father, Norman Stewart, who was a Sgt, Major Instructor in the army, and trained his men at Spean Bridge during the war. He was known by his men as the Black Devil, I believe. He is probably just mentioned in passing, but I would like to read the book for myself. Can anyone tell me if Castle Commando is that book? If not, does anyone know the name of the book that I am looking for? Also, where can I get it from? Thanks I know that there is a book somewhere which mentions my father, Norman Stewart, who was a Sgt, Major Instructor in the army, and trained his men at Spean Bridge during the war. He was known by his men as the Black Devil, I believe. He is probably just mentioned in passing, but I would like to read the book for myself.
Can anyone tell me if Castle Commando is that book? If not, does anyone know the name of the book that I am looking for? Also, where can I get it from?
Thanks

]]> By: Richard Hardy http://www.historynet.com/royal-navy-commandos-in-world-war-ii.htm#comment-787467 Richard Hardy Tue, 24 Jan 2012 23:36:24 +0000 #comment-787467 I run a small reenactment unit "Fox Commando RN" and it is amazing how many people get us confused with ROYAL MARINE commandos and go on about how we are wearing the wrong kit the wrong badges the wrong head gear. To see their faces when you point out to them that WE are ROYAL NAVY Commandos is a treat. It is also wonderful to see and hear so called experts go on and on pointing out error,s when they have read A book or they had a granddad in the "Commandos" Richard FORMER ROYAL NAVY COMMANDO 1983-2001 I run a small reenactment unit "Fox Commando RN" and it is amazing how many people get us confused with ROYAL MARINE commandos and go on about how we are wearing the wrong kit the wrong badges the wrong head gear.
To see their faces when you point out to them that WE are ROYAL NAVY Commandos is a treat.
It is also wonderful to see and hear so called experts go on and on pointing out error,s when they have read A book or they had a granddad in the "Commandos"

Richard FORMER ROYAL NAVY COMMANDO 1983-2001

]]> By: Piggywiggz. http://www.historynet.com/royal-navy-commandos-in-world-war-ii.htm#comment-602775 Piggywiggz. Tue, 14 Jun 2011 22:31:12 +0000 #comment-602775 Errata..I meant 1968 to 69...my bad.. Errata..I meant 1968 to 69…my bad..

]]> By: Piggywiggz. http://www.historynet.com/royal-navy-commandos-in-world-war-ii.htm#comment-602773 Piggywiggz. Tue, 14 Jun 2011 22:28:03 +0000 #comment-602773 Oh Yarze..Iand others, were trained / excercised, to raid-attack-putaway ''enemy'' missile pads/launch bases. This was in 1998 99. We could wear our own 'surplus stores cammo' ..Classroom lectures were by/from a Royal Marine Sgt. who wuzz very proud of us. We were referred to as a "Naval Landing Platoon'' and one idea was to back up Royal Marines should they need to advance, and we would take over their previous position. 1969 saw us land on the sandy shores of Anguilla. WI. due to political wranglings after our intel brief from the Colonel of 2 Batt Para Rgt. It was a "hard battle'' looking for more "Heineken" post the picnic from our 24 hr ration packs...and 'where's my ffwcin Victoria Cross !"..ex HMS Minerva. 1968 - 1971 Oh Yarze..Iand others, were trained / excercised, to raid-attack-putaway "enemy" missile pads/launch bases. This was in 1998 99.
We could wear our own 'surplus stores cammo' ..Classroom lectures were by/from a Royal Marine Sgt. who wuzz very proud of us. We were referred to as a "Naval Landing Platoon" and one idea was to back up Royal Marines should they need to advance, and we would take over their previous position. 1969 saw us land on the sandy shores of Anguilla. WI. due to political wranglings after our intel brief from the Colonel of 2 Batt Para Rgt. It was a "hard battle" looking for more "Heineken" post the picnic from our 24 hr ration packs…and 'where's my ffwcin Victoria Cross !"..ex HMS Minerva. 1968 – 1971

]]> By: julpadilla http://www.historynet.com/royal-navy-commandos-in-world-war-ii.htm#comment-514280 julpadilla Sun, 03 Apr 2011 15:19:45 +0000 #comment-514280 for additional skill for additional skill

]]> By: Stephen McGowan http://www.historynet.com/royal-navy-commandos-in-world-war-ii.htm#comment-412645 Stephen McGowan Fri, 31 Dec 2010 17:54:07 +0000 #comment-412645 Peter You obviously didn't read the caption to the piece - Royal NAVY Commandos in World War 11. You say your grandfather was a Royal MARINE Commando, different. There were originally Royal NAVY Commando, Army Commando and Royal Marine Commando Units trained around 1942. Royal Navy Commando were indeed, as the author states trained at Ardentinny, Dunoon. In 1946 all but Royal Marine Commando were disbanded, probably as the most of the Army and Navy units had been killed or injured. I met a original Royal NAVY Commando today and I can ascertain some FACTS for you. In the meantime, don't slag the authors off until You get YOUR facts right! Peter
You obviously didn't read the caption to the piece – Royal NAVY Commandos in World War 11.
You say your grandfather was a Royal MARINE Commando, different.

There were originally Royal NAVY Commando, Army Commando and Royal Marine Commando Units trained around 1942.
Royal Navy Commando were indeed, as the author states trained at Ardentinny, Dunoon.
In 1946 all but Royal Marine Commando were disbanded, probably as the most of the Army and Navy units had been killed or injured.
I met a original Royal NAVY Commando today and I can ascertain some FACTS for you.
In the meantime, don't slag the authors off until You get YOUR facts right!

]]> By: jeanstainsby http://www.historynet.com/royal-navy-commandos-in-world-war-ii.htm#comment-148550 jeanstainsby Thu, 19 Nov 2009 21:13:00 +0000 #comment-148550 my father Tom Haigh was a royal navy commando on the torpedo boats he was cheif stoker he joined up when he was 17 he is now 85 and has unbelievable memories and stories, he was one of the men putting lines down in normandy before the americans landed my father Tom Haigh was a royal navy commando on the torpedo boats he was cheif stoker he joined up when he was 17 he is now 85 and has unbelievable memories and stories, he was one of the men putting lines down in normandy before the americans landed

]]> By: Pete Rogers http://www.historynet.com/royal-navy-commandos-in-world-war-ii.htm#comment-59869 Pete Rogers Sat, 09 May 2009 21:25:00 +0000 #comment-59869 I agree with GriffinTurton's comments above. However I just don't see the point in trying to compare training of the army commandos during a World War to that of today. They have the time today to have a much longer course. The training given to the army commandos was new in 1942 but the principles are basically the same today. That is a benchmark on how good the planning and structure of the original courses were. It is true that not all Commandos went thru Achnacarry not just those who joined before the CTC began. When No.2 sailed to Gibralter and onto places such as Italy they sufferred heavy casualties in some actions such as Salerno. Recruits were taken on from the Army over there..tested as suitable and if so began training locally under No.2 Officers. Many did not pass and were RTU'd. Many did pass and joined the Commando. This is evidenced in the No.2 Commando War Diaries. The one thing that remains a constant since the time the Green Beret was first issued to the Commandos is that, then, and now, they can wear it with pride and in the knowledge that they are amongst an elite. I agree with GriffinTurton's comments above. However I just don't see the point in trying to compare training of the army commandos during a World War to that of today. They have the time today to have a much longer course. The training given to the army commandos was new in 1942 but the principles are basically the same today. That is a benchmark on how good the planning and structure of the original courses were. It is true that not all Commandos went thru Achnacarry not just those who joined before the CTC began. When No.2 sailed to Gibralter and onto places such as Italy they sufferred heavy casualties in some actions such as Salerno. Recruits were taken on from the Army over there..tested as suitable and if so began training locally under No.2 Officers. Many did not pass and were RTU'd. Many did pass and joined the Commando. This is evidenced in the No.2 Commando War Diaries. The one thing that remains a constant since the time the Green Beret was first issued to the Commandos is that, then, and now, they can wear it with pride and in the knowledge that they are amongst an elite.

]]> By: Griffin Turton http://www.historynet.com/royal-navy-commandos-in-world-war-ii.htm#comment-12426 Griffin Turton Sat, 27 Sep 2008 13:26:13 +0000 #comment-12426 With reference to the comments above, without any disrespect to the author or his grandfather I would like to make the following comments. David Lee's article is about the Royal Navy Commandos, who were first called Royal Navy Beach Parties and then Royal Navy Beach Commandos before the "Beach" was dropped so to speak. So when he says "Commandos" he means RN Commandos and is not referring to the Army Commandos or those of HM Royal Marines. This may be the source of some confusion. Also in Castle Commando by Donald Gilchrist which has been reprinted twice, Chapter two, paragraph nine reads "You will meet ex-Commandos who will stoutly deny ever having seen Achnacarry. Prior to 1942, the system was more or less to put the cart before the horse. Volunteers were formed into their Commando groups and then given their training. This process worked well enough at the time, and in most cases, produced an excellent type of fighting man." Donald Gilchrist is talking about the army commandos that existed before the Commando Training Centre at Achnacarry, whose training though hard was ad hoc and carried out at a number of different locations. These men would not of gone to CTC at all as the formalised training there was primarily for new commando entrants. Going back to the Royal Navy Beach Parties some of these were thrown together from 'volunteers' and evolved with the job like the Army Commandos. Formalised training for beach parties started at Inverary and moved to HMS Armadillo at Ardentiny. By 1942 the Royal Navy Commandos having completed their "Beach Party" training at HMS Armadillo would then go and do their Commando Training at Achnacarry, this was the case for my grandfather's unit NAN Commando. As a former Royal Marine who served in Northern Ireland, Kurdistan, Bosnia and went on six winter deployments to Norway between 1986 and 1995, I would like to make the following comments on comparisons in training. 1) Back to "Castle Commando", Donald Gilchrist writes in chapter 7 paragraph two, "Originally designed for a period of five weeks, the course had now been telescoped into four. It was, consequently tougher than ever". The men who went to CTC Achnacarry had already completed their basic training and in most cases would have done some advanced training and or had operational experience. The Royal Marines recruits who go to CTC Lympstone start as raw civilians and do 32 weeks and come out Royal Marine Commandos, personal administration and personal skills, advanced infantry training, commando tests and King's Squad are all rolled into one. These men can then join an operational Commando Unit. We are not comparing apples with apples. 2) The men who passed through CTC Achnacarry certainly had much more spartan facilities than those that exist at CTCRM Lympstone but you can't say that the Royal Marines of today are lesser commandos because they have better barracks, when I did my training the toughest bit was the Final Ex which started with a mock cliff assault with weapons and finished after twelve days of living in a tactical environment, with mock assaults and forced marches, I have never been so exhausted in my entire life as when that ended, this one exercise was half the length of the entire commando course during the war! 3) There is also what is known as "The All Arms Commando Course" which is for trained personnel from the Army, Royal Navy and RAF serving with 3 Commando Brigade, 29 CDO RA, 59 CDO RE and the Royal Marines Logistics Regiment. this course I believe is about 10 to 12 weeks in duration. 4) At least one recruit died whilst I was at Lympstone and another had to be resuscitated after a troop attack in full NBC gear and respirators, training was tough even when I was in and with the recent fighting in Iraq and Afghanistan I am sure it has not got any easier! With reference to the comments above, without any disrespect to the author or his grandfather I would like to make the following comments.

David Lee's article is about the Royal Navy Commandos, who were first called Royal Navy Beach Parties and then Royal Navy Beach Commandos before the "Beach" was dropped so to speak. So when he says "Commandos" he means RN Commandos and is not referring to the Army Commandos or those of HM Royal Marines. This may be the source of some confusion.
Also in Castle Commando by Donald Gilchrist which has been reprinted twice, Chapter two, paragraph nine reads
"You will meet ex-Commandos who will stoutly deny ever having seen Achnacarry. Prior to 1942, the system was more or less to put the cart before the horse. Volunteers were formed into their Commando groups and then given their training. This process worked well enough at the time, and in most cases, produced an excellent type of fighting man." Donald Gilchrist is talking about the army commandos that existed before the Commando Training Centre at Achnacarry, whose training though hard was ad hoc and carried out at a number of different locations. These men would not of gone to CTC at all as the formalised training there was primarily for new commando entrants.
Going back to the Royal Navy Beach Parties some of these were thrown together from 'volunteers' and evolved with the job like the Army Commandos. Formalised training for beach parties started at Inverary and moved to HMS Armadillo at Ardentiny. By 1942 the Royal Navy Commandos having completed their "Beach Party" training at HMS Armadillo would then go and do their Commando Training at Achnacarry, this was the case for my grandfather's unit NAN Commando.
As a former Royal Marine who served in Northern Ireland, Kurdistan, Bosnia and went on six winter deployments to Norway between 1986 and 1995, I would like to make the following comments on comparisons in training.
1) Back to "Castle Commando", Donald Gilchrist writes in chapter 7 paragraph two, "Originally designed for a period of five weeks, the course had now been telescoped into four. It was, consequently tougher than ever". The men who went to CTC Achnacarry had already completed their basic training and in most cases would have done some advanced training and or had operational experience. The Royal Marines recruits who go to CTC Lympstone start as raw civilians and do 32 weeks and come out Royal Marine Commandos, personal administration and personal skills, advanced infantry training, commando tests and King's Squad are all rolled into one. These men can then join an operational Commando Unit. We are not comparing apples with apples.
2) The men who passed through CTC Achnacarry certainly had much more spartan facilities than those that exist at CTCRM Lympstone but you can't say that the Royal Marines of today are lesser commandos because they have better barracks, when I did my training the toughest bit was the Final Ex which started with a mock cliff assault with weapons and finished after twelve days of living in a tactical environment, with mock assaults and forced marches, I have never been so exhausted in my entire life as when that ended, this one exercise was half the length of the entire commando course during the war!
3) There is also what is known as "The All Arms Commando Course" which is for trained personnel from the Army, Royal Navy and RAF serving with 3 Commando Brigade, 29 CDO RA, 59 CDO RE and the Royal Marines Logistics Regiment. this course I believe is about 10 to 12 weeks in duration.
4) At least one recruit died whilst I was at Lympstone and another had to be resuscitated after a troop attack in full NBC gear and respirators, training was tough even when I was in and with the recent fighting in Iraq and Afghanistan I am sure it has not got any easier!

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