Comments on: Polish Cavalry Charges Tanks! http://www.historynet.com/polish-cavalry-charges-tanks.htm From the World's Largest History Magazine Publisher Sun, 21 Mar 2010 03:36:10 -0400 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.4 hourly 1 By: Charles W. Raymond III http://www.historynet.com/polish-cavalry-charges-tanks.htm/comment-page-1#comment-155757 Charles W. Raymond III Mon, 07 Dec 2009 20:45:29 +0000 http://www.historynet.com/?p=13681301#comment-155757 Yes, this piece of Nazi propaganda of Polish lancers charging tanks thrives, long after the event. Just as the invincibility of the German combined arms forces of bliztkrieg, overlooking the reality that most German units were foot infantry and the artillery was horse drawn at that time. Another bit of Nazi propaganda was the "elite SS". However, SS Germania, a motorized infantry regiment, albeit with several subunits on detached missions, yet with an accompanying motorized artillery battalion, was severely mauled west of Lvov in the period 13-17 September 1939. Yes, this piece of Nazi propaganda of Polish lancers charging tanks thrives, long after the event. Just as the invincibility of the German combined arms forces of bliztkrieg, overlooking the reality that most German units were foot infantry and the artillery was horse drawn at that time. Another bit of Nazi propaganda was the "elite SS". However, SS Germania, a motorized infantry regiment, albeit with several subunits on detached missions, yet with an accompanying motorized artillery battalion, was severely mauled west of Lvov in the period 13-17 September 1939.

]]> By: paul penrod http://www.historynet.com/polish-cavalry-charges-tanks.htm/comment-page-1#comment-148099 paul penrod Tue, 17 Nov 2009 20:12:22 +0000 http://www.historynet.com/?p=13681301#comment-148099 The Polish penchant for fighting an open-style warfare was rooted in their experiences from the Eastern Front of World War I and the 1919-1920 debacle with the Soviets. They were spared the bloody attrition of trench warfare and were not exposed to the horrors of massed artillery, multitudes of machine guns, poison gas and aerial attack. their style of combat resembled the Mexican reviolution of the early 1900's. The Polish army was the opposite of the French. The latter stressed the defensive above all and the former stressed the offensive. In a battle of equals the Poles could win with this philosophy, but against unexperienced technology they could not. During the Bzura counterattack, their infantry swarmed un waves in the open, and on countless occasions artillery battery horses were driven mad by the shreil of the Jericho trumpets of Stukas The Polish penchant for fighting an open-style warfare was rooted in their experiences from the Eastern Front of World War I and the 1919-1920 debacle with the Soviets. They were spared the bloody attrition of trench warfare and were not exposed to the horrors of massed artillery, multitudes of machine guns, poison gas and aerial attack. their style of combat resembled the Mexican reviolution of the early 1900's. The Polish army was the opposite of the French. The latter stressed the defensive above all and the former stressed the offensive. In a battle of equals the Poles could win with this philosophy, but against unexperienced technology they could not. During the Bzura counterattack, their infantry swarmed un waves in the open, and on countless occasions artillery battery horses were driven mad by the shreil of the Jericho trumpets of Stukas

]]> By: Joseph R. Martan http://www.historynet.com/polish-cavalry-charges-tanks.htm/comment-page-1#comment-106750 Joseph R. Martan Tue, 25 Aug 2009 23:57:12 +0000 http://www.historynet.com/?p=13681301#comment-106750 The myth of Polish cavalry charging German tak units with lances lowered was the result of German propaganda. As noted previously, the real incident involved a Polish cavalry regiment coming upon a target of opportunity - a German infantry battalion out in the open. The Poles attacked because they were trying to break through and out of the so-called "Polish Corridor." After slaughtering the infantry battalion, the Poles ran into the German armored cars who were responding to a call for help. The next day the Germans conducted then-neutral Italian journalists on a tour of the battlle site. It behooved the Germans to "spice up" the details. In 1940 the Germans made a propaganda movie called "Schlachtgeschwader Lutzow" which portrayed the cavalry-charging-tanks myth on film. The rest, as they say, is history. Fact: Polish cavalry brigades were trained to fight as dismounted infantry. Each brigade had several batteries of horse artillery - "the elite of the elite" - armed with rebarreled Tsarist Russian 3" guns. These were superb anti-tank pieces which blew the stuffings out of any German tank encountered. The lance had been officially discarded as a weapon several years prior to 1939. The Poles also coordinated their cavalry units with their armored train units. On the first day of the war an armored train came to rescue of a cavalry unit being roughly handled by the 4th Panzer Division - the armored train, possessing several 75mm guns gave the vaunted German armored unit a very bloody nose at Mokra. The myth of Polish cavalry charging German tak units with lances lowered was the result of German propaganda. As noted previously, the real incident involved a Polish cavalry regiment coming upon a target of opportunity – a German infantry battalion out in the open. The Poles attacked because they were trying to break through and out of the so-called "Polish Corridor." After slaughtering the infantry battalion, the Poles ran into the German armored cars who were responding to a call for help. The next day the Germans conducted then-neutral Italian journalists on a tour of the battlle site. It behooved the Germans to "spice up" the details.

In 1940 the Germans made a propaganda movie called "Schlachtgeschwader Lutzow" which portrayed the cavalry-charging-tanks myth on film. The rest, as they say, is history.

Fact: Polish cavalry brigades were trained to fight as dismounted infantry. Each brigade had several batteries of horse artillery – "the elite of the elite" – armed with rebarreled Tsarist Russian 3" guns. These were superb anti-tank pieces which blew the stuffings out of any German tank encountered. The lance had been officially discarded as a weapon several years prior to 1939. The Poles also coordinated their cavalry units with their armored train units. On the first day of the war an armored train came to rescue of a cavalry unit being roughly handled by the 4th Panzer Division – the armored train, possessing several 75mm guns gave the vaunted German armored unit a very bloody nose at Mokra.

]]> By: N. Cusca http://www.historynet.com/polish-cavalry-charges-tanks.htm/comment-page-1#comment-106679 N. Cusca Tue, 25 Aug 2009 22:04:32 +0000 http://www.historynet.com/?p=13681301#comment-106679 Here here to Mr Philip L. Bolte's comments. If I was to find one fault in the recent direction of Military History Magazine is that it tries to be sensational at the expense of scholarship. A Myth is not a lie, Myth's invariavblly have an element of truth in it, in this case the heroic charge of the 18th Lancers (and I think the writer does a diservice to the poles in describing the Germans as a "weak German infantry position", if memory serves the infantry unit attacked was stonger than he implies). What the author of this article leaves out (because it would reduce his 'myth busting' contention ) is that this charge did result in a delay in the offensive of the German 20th Motorised Infantry Division (which actually considered retreating till countermanded by Guderian) and bought time for the Polish Army. If memory serves an Italien newscorrespondant surveying the scene after the battle misunderstood misunderstood what was be relayed to him by the Germans giving him the after action tour (likely a problem of translation) and wrote the story of the Lancers Vs Tanks. The Italien, despite being a member of the axis wrote it romantically, the German picked it up to show the "backwardness" of the poles. Myth it may be, misunderstanding it may be, but if this Myth causes the interested historian to look for the truth and discovers the heroism of Colonel Kazimierz Mastelarz and his Lancers, then the Myth serves a useful purposes . Here here to Mr Philip L. Bolte's comments. If I was to find one fault in the recent direction of Military History Magazine is that it tries to be sensational at the expense of scholarship.

A Myth is not a lie, Myth's invariavblly have an element of truth in it, in this case the heroic charge of the 18th Lancers (and I think the writer does a diservice to the poles in describing the Germans as a "weak German infantry position", if memory serves the infantry unit attacked was stonger than he implies). What the author of this article leaves out (because it would reduce his 'myth busting' contention ) is that this charge did result in a delay in the offensive of the German 20th Motorised Infantry Division (which actually considered retreating till countermanded by Guderian) and bought time for the Polish Army.

If memory serves an Italien newscorrespondant surveying the scene after the battle misunderstood misunderstood what was be relayed to him by the Germans giving him the after action tour (likely a problem of translation) and wrote the story of the Lancers Vs Tanks. The Italien, despite being a member of the axis wrote it romantically, the German picked it up to show the "backwardness" of the poles.

Myth it may be, misunderstanding it may be, but if this Myth causes the interested historian to look for the truth and discovers the heroism of Colonel Kazimierz Mastelarz and his Lancers, then the Myth serves a useful purposes .

]]> By: Caitlin Newman http://www.historynet.com/polish-cavalry-charges-tanks.htm/comment-page-1#comment-106670 Caitlin Newman Tue, 25 Aug 2009 21:54:39 +0000 http://www.historynet.com/?p=13681301#comment-106670 Philip-- Could you please send your request to worldwar2@weiderhistorygroup.com? Thanks, Caitlin Newman Associate Editor, World War II Philip–

Could you please send your request to worldwar2@weiderhistorygroup.com?

Thanks,
Caitlin Newman
Associate Editor, World War II

]]> By: Torstein Eirum http://www.historynet.com/polish-cavalry-charges-tanks.htm/comment-page-1#comment-106616 Torstein Eirum Tue, 25 Aug 2009 20:26:51 +0000 http://www.historynet.com/?p=13681301#comment-106616 Poland had on paper 1 september 1939:693 TK and TKS tankettes,169 7TP,52VAU and 67 Renault FT17.A small nuber of R-35(ca.60) had also recently been deliverd.numbers mobilized:440,130,30,49,55. Of the polish armour only the 7TP and VAU could be considered useful at 1939 standard. Poland had on paper 1 september 1939:693 TK and TKS tankettes,169 7TP,52VAU and 67 Renault FT17.A small nuber of R-35(ca.60) had also recently been deliverd.numbers mobilized:440,130,30,49,55. Of the polish armour only the 7TP and VAU could be considered useful at 1939 standard.

]]> By: Harold S. Wood http://www.historynet.com/polish-cavalry-charges-tanks.htm/comment-page-1#comment-106612 Harold S. Wood Tue, 25 Aug 2009 20:23:40 +0000 http://www.historynet.com/?p=13681301#comment-106612 These were gallant men, even if they did not "charge" tanks. If they were charging German infantry positions, I am sure they were charging light machine guns at least. "Into the valley of death rode the 600". Gallant and brave mem. (We won't say anything about their leadership, now will we?) These were gallant men, even if they did not "charge" tanks. If they were charging German infantry positions, I am sure they were charging light machine guns at least. "Into the valley of death rode the 600". Gallant and brave mem. (We won't say anything about their leadership, now will we?)

]]> By: kathryn murdock http://www.historynet.com/polish-cavalry-charges-tanks.htm/comment-page-1#comment-106554 kathryn murdock Tue, 25 Aug 2009 18:52:02 +0000 http://www.historynet.com/?p=13681301#comment-106554 Why does even so distinguished a magazine as this continue to misuse the word myth. Myth is not another workd for lies. Myth if it must be used in this case should be used in the context of this "Charge" as a metaphor for doomed gallantry not as a tissue of lies. Why does even so distinguished a magazine as this continue to misuse the word myth. Myth is not another workd for lies. Myth if it must be used in this case should be used in the context of this "Charge" as a metaphor for doomed gallantry not as a tissue of lies.

]]> By: Philip L. Bolte http://www.historynet.com/polish-cavalry-charges-tanks.htm/comment-page-1#comment-106523 Philip L. Bolte Tue, 25 Aug 2009 18:10:51 +0000 http://www.historynet.com/?p=13681301#comment-106523 The U.S. Cavalry Association requests permission to reprint the Polish Cavalry article in it quarterly "The Cavalry Journal," providing credit and any reference you would like. The U.S. Cavalry Association is a 501(c)(3) organization dedicated to preserving the history, traditions, equipment, and heritage of the U.S. Cavalry. Thank you, Philip L. Bolte Brig. Gen., USA, Ret. Chairman, USCA The U.S. Cavalry Association requests permission to reprint the Polish Cavalry article in it quarterly "The Cavalry Journal," providing credit and any reference you would like.

The U.S. Cavalry Association is a 501(c)(3) organization dedicated to preserving the history, traditions, equipment, and heritage of the U.S. Cavalry.

Thank you,

Philip L. Bolte
Brig. Gen., USA, Ret.
Chairman, USCA

]]> By: Did Polish Cavalry Really Charge German Tanks? | Everything Is History http://www.historynet.com/polish-cavalry-charges-tanks.htm/comment-page-1#comment-105938 Did Polish Cavalry Really Charge German Tanks? | Everything Is History Mon, 24 Aug 2009 15:45:59 +0000 http://www.historynet.com/?p=13681301#comment-105938 [...] Polish Cavalry Charges Tanks! » HistoryNet [...] [...] Polish Cavalry Charges Tanks! » HistoryNet [...]

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