Comments on: Mongol Invasions: Battle of Liegnitz http://www.historynet.com/mongol-invasions-battle-of-liegnitz.htm?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=mongol-invasions-battle-of-liegnitz From the World's Largest History Magazine Publisher Tue, 14 Feb 2012 22:24:31 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3 By: HH http://www.historynet.com/mongol-invasions-battle-of-liegnitz.htm#comment-786603 HH Wed, 11 Jan 2012 14:45:26 +0000 #comment-786603 WJM i dissagree with what you are saying about that Hungary was only the target. Subotai had a dream to go all the way West until he met water. He would deffenetly succeed if it had not been for the death of Ogedai. the reason why he never came back to finish what he wanted, was because 1. he was getting fairly old, and 2. after ogedai died and the new khan took over, subotai got new orders, there where "fighting" between the mongols about who was actually the new Khan. When he got back to Karakorum he was 66 years old, and retired 4 years later. He did want to come back to europe, and it is also said that he had made plans for it, but i guess there was just not enough time. WJM i dissagree with what you are saying about that Hungary was only the target. Subotai had a dream to go all the way West until he met water. He would deffenetly succeed if it had not been for the death of Ogedai. the reason why he never came back to finish what he wanted, was because 1. he was getting fairly old, and 2. after ogedai died and the new khan took over, subotai got new orders, there where "fighting" between the mongols about who was actually the new Khan. When he got back to Karakorum he was 66 years old, and retired 4 years later. He did want to come back to europe, and it is also said that he had made plans for it, but i guess there was just not enough time.

]]> By: Cheeks http://www.historynet.com/mongol-invasions-battle-of-liegnitz.htm#comment-780283 Cheeks Mon, 31 Oct 2011 10:16:56 +0000 #comment-780283 Hungary is steppe and the Mongols failed to conquer it. The king survived, Hungary never paid tribute, and the Mongols retreated. So how is this a great victory for the Mongols? Wouldn't this mean that the Mongols failed in their objectives in Europe, even if, as you say, the objective was only Hungary. Hungary is steppe and the Mongols failed to conquer it. The king survived, Hungary never paid tribute, and the Mongols retreated. So how is this a great victory for the Mongols? Wouldn't this mean that the Mongols failed in their objectives in Europe, even if, as you say, the objective was only Hungary.

]]> By: Cheeks http://www.historynet.com/mongol-invasions-battle-of-liegnitz.htm#comment-780282 Cheeks Mon, 31 Oct 2011 10:12:32 +0000 #comment-780282 So why was Europe not conquered then, if it was defeated? If the Khan died, but the war had gone well, why didn't the Mongols come back and finish the job of conquering Europe? So why was Europe not conquered then, if it was defeated? If the Khan died, but the war had gone well, why didn't the Mongols come back and finish the job of conquering Europe?

]]> By: Joeisaac http://www.historynet.com/mongol-invasions-battle-of-liegnitz.htm#comment-779260 Joeisaac Mon, 10 Oct 2011 03:07:27 +0000 #comment-779260 After reading books on the Mongol victories over the Muslims and Russians cities I keep having these dreams that I'm a Mongol soldier on the march during winter with the Mongol banners fluttering in the wind and Mongol Calvarymen as far as the eye can see. After reading books on the Mongol victories over the Muslims and Russians cities I keep having these dreams that I'm a Mongol soldier on the march during winter with the Mongol banners fluttering in the wind and Mongol Calvarymen as far as the eye can see.

]]> By: Joe http://www.historynet.com/mongol-invasions-battle-of-liegnitz.htm#comment-548399 Joe Wed, 04 May 2011 16:18:44 +0000 #comment-548399 IDK about this but history is important. every battle that was lost and won led to our world today. if what they say about history is true, then we need to be careful. IDK about this but history is important. every battle that was lost and won led to our world today. if what they say about history is true, then we need to be careful.

]]> By: khaaaan http://www.historynet.com/mongol-invasions-battle-of-liegnitz.htm#comment-541693 khaaaan Fri, 29 Apr 2011 22:41:33 +0000 #comment-541693 During invasions in Vietnam, Java and even Japan, Mongols mostly use Chinese troops... quality of those armies can't be compared to earlier mongol armies. During invasions in Vietnam, Java and even Japan, Mongols mostly use Chinese troops… quality of those armies can't be compared to earlier mongol armies.

]]> By: Alexander http://www.historynet.com/mongol-invasions-battle-of-liegnitz.htm#comment-519555 Alexander Sat, 09 Apr 2011 03:43:43 +0000 #comment-519555 est' dostatochno krepkaja teorija, chto mongolami po oshibke nazvali nashih burjatov... da i voobwe, dlja vsej Evropy Rossija byla Bol'shoj Tatariej (tartar), t.e. neponjatnogovorjawej stranoj... a kochevye voennye - jeto byla mobil'naja armija Rusi, sostojawaja ne tol'ko iz burjatov, no iz vseh nacij gosudarstva... rassmotrite tot fakt, chto na znameni t.n. mongol'skogo vojska rozha lica kakogo-to carja, a takzhe net harakternyh chert lica voina-mongola (nesmotrja na to, chto lica prorisovany dostatochno horosho).... a dokazatel'stv suwestvovanija iga, naskol'ko ja znaju, net. krome trudov i pisaniny.... antidokazatel'stvo - jeto to, chto v period suwestvovanija "iga" postroeno ochen' bol'shoe kolichestvo cerkvej (kakoj zavoevatel' pozvolit ne prosto razvivat' chuzhuju emu religiju, no i tratit' stol'ko zolota na kupola?) gde zhili mongoly 2 veka?, pochemu ne ostalos' nikakih vewdokov s mest ih stojanok? pochemu bumagi t.n. "dani"oni pisali na jazyke "zavojovannogo" naroda? otkuda prishli jeti "mongoly" i pochemu sovremennye mongoly tol'ko nedavno uznali o tom, chto oni derzhali vsju Evropu v strahe, a Rus' v gnjote? dokazano, chto mongoly osvoili metally pozzhe suwestvovanija iga. otkuda u nih bylo stol'ko narodu i loshadej dlja togo, chtoby ne tol'ko dopolzti do Rusi (na podkovannyh metallom loshadjah), no i prygat' potom po Evrope? etc... "Sotni umnyh,special'no obuchennyh ljudej,istorikov iskali i nahodili informaciju." (s) a mozhet, oni ne iskali, no pytalis' podognat' v ramki neobhodimoj istorii to, chto nashli, a nepodhodjawie fakty otmetali? est' dostatochno krepkaja teorija, chto mongolami po oshibke nazvali nashih burjatov… da i voobwe, dlja vsej Evropy Rossija byla Bol'shoj Tatariej (tartar), t.e. neponjatnogovorjawej stranoj… a kochevye voennye – jeto byla mobil'naja armija Rusi, sostojawaja ne tol'ko iz burjatov, no iz vseh nacij gosudarstva… rassmotrite tot fakt, chto na znameni t.n. mongol'skogo vojska rozha lica kakogo-to carja, a takzhe net harakternyh chert lica voina-mongola (nesmotrja na to, chto lica prorisovany dostatochno horosho)….
a dokazatel'stv suwestvovanija iga, naskol'ko ja znaju, net. krome trudov i pisaniny…. antidokazatel'stvo – jeto to, chto v period suwestvovanija "iga" postroeno ochen' bol'shoe kolichestvo cerkvej (kakoj zavoevatel' pozvolit ne prosto razvivat' chuzhuju emu religiju, no i tratit' stol'ko zolota na kupola?)
gde zhili mongoly 2 veka?, pochemu ne ostalos' nikakih vewdokov s mest ih stojanok? pochemu bumagi t.n. "dani"oni pisali na jazyke "zavojovannogo" naroda? otkuda prishli jeti "mongoly" i pochemu sovremennye mongoly tol'ko nedavno uznali o tom, chto oni derzhali vsju Evropu v strahe, a Rus' v gnjote? dokazano, chto mongoly osvoili metally pozzhe suwestvovanija iga. otkuda u nih bylo stol'ko narodu i loshadej dlja togo, chtoby ne tol'ko dopolzti do Rusi (na podkovannyh metallom loshadjah), no i prygat' potom po Evrope? etc…

"Sotni umnyh,special'no obuchennyh ljudej,istorikov iskali i nahodili informaciju." (s)
a mozhet, oni ne iskali, no pytalis' podognat' v ramki neobhodimoj istorii to, chto nashli, a nepodhodjawie fakty otmetali?

]]> By: Krass http://www.historynet.com/mongol-invasions-battle-of-liegnitz.htm#comment-433905 Krass Wed, 19 Jan 2011 22:04:29 +0000 #comment-433905 I believe it takes much away from the Samurai when people attribute the loss to the typhoons when the Samurai actually managed to get on board the Mongol ships and decimated them in close-quarter combat basically proving that Mongols were not that great in hand-to-hand fighting. The Samurai essentially owned them right then and there therefore making Samurai the better warriors. Also, the Mongols fleeing back because the death of Ogodei is a lame excuse. They knew they couldn't take on Western Europe given the heavier forested areas. There were no steppes in most of central and western Europe. The Mongols as invincible warriors is an over exaggeration. Terrain plays just as much of a role in war and strategy so I don't see how most people refuse to acknowledge success to Vietnam and Java when they managed to repel the Mongols given the climate those two countries were in and hand the Mongols all sorts of accolades because they were good at steppe warfare. I believe it takes much away from the Samurai when people attribute the loss to the typhoons when the Samurai actually managed to get on board the Mongol ships and decimated them in close-quarter combat basically proving that Mongols were not that great in hand-to-hand fighting. The Samurai essentially owned them right then and there therefore making Samurai the better warriors. Also, the Mongols fleeing back because the death of Ogodei is a lame excuse. They knew they couldn't take on Western Europe given the heavier forested areas. There were no steppes in most of central and western Europe. The Mongols as invincible warriors is an over exaggeration. Terrain plays just as much of a role in war and strategy so I don't see how most people refuse to acknowledge success to Vietnam and Java when they managed to repel the Mongols given the climate those two countries were in and hand the Mongols all sorts of accolades because they were good at steppe warfare.

]]> By: richard http://www.historynet.com/mongol-invasions-battle-of-liegnitz.htm#comment-378080 richard Sun, 28 Nov 2010 07:52:36 +0000 #comment-378080 By the way, in reply to comment number 9, Cheng Ho or Zeng He commanded the Chinese fleet during the Ming Empire from the 1400s to 1435 or so. The Mongol invasion of Japan failed not because the Chinese could only build fluvial ships and not marine ships, but due to the Kamikaze or Divine wind...Typhoon and also due to according to latest research, Chinese sabotage in building poor quality ships, hopefully causing the invasion to fail. The poor quality ships broke apart easily. The Chinese were capable of building marine ships of huge size, up to 500 ft in the time of the Ming. These ships actually sailed around the world according to Gavin Menzies in his two books: 1421 and 1434 based upon years of very meticulous research. So, why did they not conquer the world instead of the Europeans? The Chinese were interested in Trade and not Colonizing other cultures. Chinese contact with the nations of S.E Asia were based upon Trade relations and not warfare and conquest, unlike the Dutch, Spanish, Portuguese, English who loved to take over other peoples property and land and steal their resources and also convert them to Christianity. And another reason why is that the Mongols were still powerful and causing endless trouble along the northern borders of China and this required huge armies to hold them back. This helped to bankrupt the Ming, and the Ming Emperor's successor; his son, decided to scrap the overseas voyages and let the navy decline. Besides, at this time, China was perhaps the richest and most advanced culture and saw no great trade benefits coming from so-called "inferior" places. They became arrogant and thought that they didn't need to learn anything from the rest of the "undeveloped" world, so they downgraded their trading voyages. Finally, in 1644, The Manchu, another confederation of northern nomads including Mongols, conquered China. They had little interest in the navy and by this time the once glorious Ming fleet became but a shadow of its former glory. By this time, European powers were flexing their muscles and it is from this time that we thought that China never had any substantial ocean going vessels and only small Junks for rivers and coastal voyages. Even the Chinese gradually forgot their own history. However, buried among piles of documents, Gavin Menzies and others have eventually found written evidence of the past. By the way, in reply to comment number 9, Cheng Ho or Zeng He commanded the Chinese fleet during the Ming Empire from the 1400s to 1435 or so. The Mongol invasion of Japan failed not because the Chinese could only build fluvial ships and not marine ships, but due to the Kamikaze or Divine wind…Typhoon and also due to according to latest research, Chinese sabotage in building poor quality ships, hopefully causing the invasion to fail. The poor quality ships broke apart easily.

The Chinese were capable of building marine ships of huge size, up to 500 ft in the time of the Ming. These ships actually sailed around the world according to Gavin Menzies in his two books: 1421 and 1434 based upon years of very meticulous research.

So, why did they not conquer the world instead of the Europeans? The Chinese were interested in Trade and not Colonizing other cultures. Chinese contact with the nations of S.E Asia were based upon Trade relations and not warfare and conquest, unlike the Dutch, Spanish, Portuguese, English who loved to take over other peoples property and land and steal their resources and also convert them to Christianity. And another reason why is that the Mongols were still powerful and causing endless trouble along the northern borders of China and this required huge armies to hold them back.

This helped to bankrupt the Ming, and the Ming Emperor's successor; his son, decided to scrap the overseas voyages and let the navy decline. Besides, at this time, China was perhaps the richest and most advanced culture and saw no great trade benefits coming from so-called "inferior" places. They became arrogant and thought that they didn't need to learn anything from the rest of the "undeveloped" world, so they downgraded their trading voyages.

Finally, in 1644, The Manchu, another confederation of northern nomads including Mongols, conquered China. They had little interest in the navy and by this time the once glorious Ming fleet became but a shadow of its former glory. By this time, European powers were flexing their muscles and it is from this time that we thought that China never had any substantial ocean going vessels and only small Junks for rivers and coastal voyages. Even the Chinese gradually forgot their own history. However, buried among piles of documents, Gavin Menzies and others have eventually found written evidence of the past.

]]> By: WJM http://www.historynet.com/mongol-invasions-battle-of-liegnitz.htm#comment-306003 WJM Sat, 03 Jul 2010 21:35:22 +0000 #comment-306003 Oh, most of that from 'Genghis Khan - or the making of the modern world', by Jack Weatherford. Oh, most of that from 'Genghis Khan – or the making of the modern world', by Jack Weatherford.

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