WWII: Please describe your humorous encounter with a Lockheed P-38 pilot named Widen in Italy in 1944.

Steinhoff: This is a good story. I was test-flying an Me-109 with my aide near our base at Foggia. This was before I had been exiled from Germany, during my first tour as Kommodore of JG.77. Well, we were attacked at low level by a flight of P-38 Lightnings, about 100 American fighters in all, but the two of us figured, why not attack? We turned into them, and I flew through their formation going in the opposite direction, getting good strikes on a couple of them. I poured a good burst into this P-38 and the pilot rolled over, and I saw him bail out. I had this on gun camera also. Well, he was picked up and made a POW, and I invited him to my tent for a drink and dinner, as well as to spend the night. We drank some of the local wine… and drank and drank. I thought to myself, ‘What am I going to do with this guy?’ Well, it was long after midnight, so I lay down in my tent and stretched my legs so I could reach his head. He woke up and said, ‘Don’t worry, I won’t run away, you have my word as an officer and a gentleman. Besides, you got me too drunk.’ We slept, and he kept his word, and I never placed a guard on him.

WWII: So you subdued your opponent with alcohol?

Steinhoff: Yes, that’s right, and it worked very well, you know. He was a very likable man, and I was very pleased to have the victory, but as I told him, I was even more pleased to see him uninjured and safe.

WWII: Of all the Allied fighters you encountered, which was the most difficult to handle with a good pilot at the controls?

Steinhoff: The Lightning. It was fast, low profiled and a fantastic fighter, and a real danger when it was above you. It was only vulnerable if you were behind it, a little below and closing fast, or turning into it, but on the attack it was a tremendous aircraft. One shot me down from long range in 1944. That would be the one, although the P-51 [Mustang] was deadly because of the long range, and it could cover any air base in Europe. This made things difficult, especially later when flying the jets.

WWII: How did you get stuck as the recruiting officer for JV44?

Steinhoff: Well, after the death of [Walter] Nowotny, I took over command of JG.7 in December 1944, after the jets were dispersed to individual wings. I chose various squadron leaders, such as [Erich] Rudorffer, [Gerhard] Barkhorn, [Heinz] Baer and others. After Operation Bodenplatte and the fighters’ revolt, I was, of course, sent back to Italy and fired from my job with the jets. Galland recalled me when he had permission from Hitler to create his own ‘Squadron of Experts,’ which was not the original intent, but this is the way it worked out. Galland gave me full authorization to scrounge and recruit the best pilots possible. I went to every bar and recreation hall, even a few hospitals and forward units, until I had about 17 or so volunteers, with more on the way. The list was impressive, and among this group were two or three inexperienced jet pilots, but they showed promise.

WWII: So the Squadron of Experts was just that?

Steinhoff: Yes, most of us had many kills, and nine of us had over 100 victories, and a couple, such as Baer, had over 200, and Barkhorn had 300. Everyone except a couple had the Knight’s Cross or higher decorations and hundreds of missions, and most were senior officers led by a squadron leader with the rank of lieutenant general. It was quite a unit, and I don’t think there will ever be another one like it.

WWII: Were the tactics pretty much the same with JV44 as with JG.7, or were there differences in attack strategy?

Steinhoff: Pretty much the same, I would say. The only significant difference was that we could pretty much create our own tactics on the spot to counter any new threat, whereas in conventional units you had to wait for a recommendation to be approved, and then the tactics authorized, which wasted valuable time. We found that attacking from the flank, entering the enemy formation from the side and attacking with rockets, brought many good results. It was like blasting geese with a shotgun. Attacking from the rear was also good, although targets offered a lower profile. When attacking from the side, we would lead the bombers a little, fire the rockets, then pull up or away and swing around for a rear pass on the survivors, where we fired our 30mm cannon. This would shred the bombers’ wings or explode their bombs. Against fighters, one cannon shell was usually sufficient to bring it down.

WWII: Do you feel that the Me-262, if produced in larger numbers earlier, would have had any effect on the war?

Steinhoff: This is a very good and difficult question. Even if the jets were built in greater numbers, we did not have the trained pilots, or even the fuel. It was too late in the war, and we could not win. However, if we’d had the jets in 1943, things would have been different, I am sure, but that was not to be. That was our fate.

WWII: I spoke to Hajo Herrmann, who thought that the debate over the Me-262 between bomber and fighter commands was nonsense. He said that even though arguments could be made in favor of its use as either a fighter or a bomber, it should have been focused on as a fighter so late in the war. How do you feel about that debate?

Steinhoff: It was only possible to use the jet airplane as a fighter, as Galland was able to prove later in the war. This is right, because it was too late.

WWII: What did you think of the possibility of Heinrich Himmler and the SS taking over the operational control of the jets?

Steinhoff: Oh, yes, we were aware of this, but that was an insane idea. That was nonsense, it was not possible. The training time required and the personnel made it unfeasible. It was simply nonsense.

WWII: After the fighters’ revolt, how did the fighter pilots feel about the war? What was their morale like?

Steinhoff: Gunther Lützow, Galland, Traut-loft and myself, as well as many others, were deeply involved. We were upset because the Luftwaffe was torn to pieces. Morale was very poor, Galland was standing all alone, and the importance of the fighters was negligible. It was a very bad time.

WWII: How many times were you shot down during the war?

Steinhoff: I was shot down 12 times. In the 13th incident I almost died from a crash.

WWII: How many times did you bail out?

Steinhoff: I only bailed out once. I never trusted the parachutes. I always landed my damaged planes, hoping not to get bounced on the way down when I lost power. I was wounded only once lightly, but never seriously until my crash.

WWII: Tell us about that near-fatal crash.

Steinhoff: Many writers have covered that, but hardly anyone ever asked me about it, except for Raymond Toliver, so here is the true story. I was taking off in formation on April 18, 1945, for my 900th mission. Galland was leading the flight, which included Gerhard Barkhorn, [Klaus] Neumann, [Eduard] Schallmoser, [Ernst] Fahrmann and myself. We were to fly formation and engage an American bomber formation. Our airfield had suffered some damage over the last several days due to Allied bombing and strafing attacks, and as my jet was picking up speed, the left undercarriage struck a poorly patched crater. I lost the wheel, and the plane jumped perhaps a meter into the air, so I tried to raise the remaining right wheel. I was too low to abort takeoff, and my speed had not increased enough to facilitate takeoff. I knew as I came toward the end of the runway that I was going to crash. The 262 hit with a great thump, then a fire broke out in the cockpit as it skidded to a stop. I tried to unfasten my belts when an explosion rocked the plane, and I felt an intense heat. My 24 R4M rockets had exploded, and the fuel was burning me alive. I remember popping the canopy and jumping out, flames all around me, and I fell down and began to roll. The explosions continued, and the concussion was deafening, knocking the down as I tried to get up and run away. I cannot describe the pain.

WWII: After you escaped from the plane, you were taken to the hospital?

Steinhoff: Yes, sure. They thought I would die. Even the surgeons had no idea that I would survive, but I tricked them.

WWII: For years afterward you continued to have surgery to correct the damage. Could you tell us about that?

Steinhoff: In 1969 a British doctor, a plastic surgeon, made new eyelids for me from the skin on my forearm. From the time of the crash until this time I could not close my eyes, so I wore dark glasses to protect them. I had dozens of surgeries over the years, and I recently had a heart bypass, as you know, which delayed our interview. I am now full of spare parts, you could say.

WWII: You still meet frequently with many of your friends and former enemies. Do you look forward to these gatherings?

Steinhoff: Yes. I used to meet with [Douglas] Bader, [Robert Stanford] Tuck and Johnny Johnson quite frequently, as well as many American aces such as [Francis] Gabreski, [Hubert] Zemke and others. We are all old men, wiser and appreciative that no one holds anyone to blame for anything. We are a small fraternity, and we are all good friends.

WWII: How many victories did you have confirmed during the war?

Steinhoff: I had 176 victories, with seven in the jet.

WWII: Well, all of your old comrades and former enemies respect you greatly, including Hajo Herrmann, who came to see you in the hospital after the crash. You knew him, didn’t you?

Steinhoff: Yes, I met him once or twice. I knew who he was. He was a good man.

WWII: You finally retired in the 1970s after many decades of service. How did you get involved with the Bundesluftwaf fe after the war?

Steinhoff: That is a long story, but a good one. I spent two years in the hospital after the crash, and I was still in my bed when I was approached by Trautloft and others. They convinced me that I could do much more outside the hospital than inside, so I decided to once again wear a uniform. The Communist threat was still a large factor, and as years went by we saw the Cold War more clearly than you in America did. It was right next door to us.

WWII: You have written several successful books about the war, and you are interna-tionally famous and highly respected. How do you spend your time today in retirement?

Steinhoff: I used to go on many speaking engagements, traveling as you know to all of the seminars, speaking to young people and telling them about what we did. I like meeting young people. They are the future, and we should take care of them.

WWII: Soon you will celebrate your 80th birthday. What advice do you have for the younger generations today?

Steinhoff: Oh, that is a very good question. I would tell them this: Love your country and fight for your country. Believe in truth, and that is enough.

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This article was written by Colin D. Heaton and originally published in the February 2000 issue of World War II magazine.

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