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	<title>Comments on: Hodges:  A Genius for War?</title>
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		<title>By: Jim</title>
		<link>http://www.historynet.com/hodges-a-genius-for-war.htm#comment-658293</link>
		<dc:creator>Jim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 23 Jul 2011 16:31:23 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Hodges commanded and led the Americans stupidly through the Hurtgen forest which had no roads killing thousand of GIs. The worst General ever.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hodges commanded and led the Americans stupidly through the Hurtgen forest which had no roads killing thousand of GIs. The worst General ever.</p>
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		<title>By: Mariella Federle</title>
		<link>http://www.historynet.com/hodges-a-genius-for-war.htm#comment-536359</link>
		<dc:creator>Mariella Federle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Apr 2011 03:45:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historynet.com/?p=13682948#comment-536359</guid>
		<description>I really must make the comment that it&#039;s very a novelty to come across a relatively original blog like yours, good job. I look forward to visiting frequently. BTW I&#039;ll be looking out for your next comment then.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I really must make the comment that it&#039;s very a novelty to come across a relatively original blog like yours, good job. I look forward to visiting frequently. BTW I&#039;ll be looking out for your next comment then.</p>
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		<title>By: Bill K.</title>
		<link>http://www.historynet.com/hodges-a-genius-for-war.htm#comment-366246</link>
		<dc:creator>Bill K.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Nov 2010 14:39:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historynet.com/?p=13682948#comment-366246</guid>
		<description>That said, I think Hodges fought his divisions there as well as anyone could have. 

In terms of mobility in WWII, I think it must be considered wholistically - Not just in the ETO for 9 months - ie, after Cobra and bocage until hitting the German border in Sept. until after the Bulge in Jan., 1945.  

Remember the fighting in Italy was a slog, the Volturno River, Cassino Line, the Gothic Line - Okinawa, the Shuri line and X Corps, Iwo Jima a slog, the Philippines, etc, etc - These are areas where tactical air power and armored mobility leant little to the winning of the fighting.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That said, I think Hodges fought his divisions there as well as anyone could have. </p>
<p>In terms of mobility in WWII, I think it must be considered wholistically &#8211; Not just in the ETO for 9 months &#8211; ie, after Cobra and bocage until hitting the German border in Sept. until after the Bulge in Jan., 1945.  </p>
<p>Remember the fighting in Italy was a slog, the Volturno River, Cassino Line, the Gothic Line &#8211; Okinawa, the Shuri line and X Corps, Iwo Jima a slog, the Philippines, etc, etc &#8211; These are areas where tactical air power and armored mobility leant little to the winning of the fighting.</p>
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		<title>By: Bill K.</title>
		<link>http://www.historynet.com/hodges-a-genius-for-war.htm#comment-366232</link>
		<dc:creator>Bill K.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Nov 2010 14:03:23 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Alan -

I believe the reason that Bradley is so charitable toward Hodges in reference to the Huertgen Forest operations is because, in fact, the &quot;fault&quot; does not ultimately lie with Hodges but higher up with Bradley.  1st Army was not obliged to attack the Huertgen, an area that negated every allied advantage.  The could have well held their frontage or even bypassed the area and need not worried much about the 5000 odd German troops with little armor and a bad road net counterattacking - in fact it is likely that in bypassing the Huertgen the germans would have simply retreated.  In fact, German sources indicate that OKW was confused as to why US forces would attack such an area, with the possible exception of taking the Roer River dams, which US commanders never recognized as an objective until much later in the year.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Alan -</p>
<p>I believe the reason that Bradley is so charitable toward Hodges in reference to the Huertgen Forest operations is because, in fact, the &#034;fault&#034; does not ultimately lie with Hodges but higher up with Bradley.  1st Army was not obliged to attack the Huertgen, an area that negated every allied advantage.  The could have well held their frontage or even bypassed the area and need not worried much about the 5000 odd German troops with little armor and a bad road net counterattacking &#8211; in fact it is likely that in bypassing the Huertgen the germans would have simply retreated.  In fact, German sources indicate that OKW was confused as to why US forces would attack such an area, with the possible exception of taking the Roer River dams, which US commanders never recognized as an objective until much later in the year.</p>
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		<title>By: Adam Rinkleff</title>
		<link>http://www.historynet.com/hodges-a-genius-for-war.htm#comment-359796</link>
		<dc:creator>Adam Rinkleff</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Nov 2010 01:54:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historynet.com/?p=13682948#comment-359796</guid>
		<description>Well, the definition of &#039;forward&#039; can be pretty vague, and frankly I&#039;m not convinced that the FM1-02 is the epitome of military terminology. In any case, I&#039;m not saying there wasn&#039;t a tactical breakthrough. All I&#039;m saying is that a genuine strategic breakthrough is a particularly special circumstance, and I don&#039;t think Cobra achieved that. 

I think Luke Truxal is far more accurate in suggesting the term &quot;rout&quot; but I would suggest the term &quot;fighting retreat&quot; as an even more accurate of the German activity. The German line was smashed heavily, but rather than being broken and left behind, the Germans were able to pull back and offer significant resistance as they did so. In a true breakthrough, the defenses do NOT pull back. That&#039;s the big difference. 

As it happened, they pulled their line back towards the southeast, thus attempting to refuse their flank and thereby allowing VIII Corps (NOT Third Army) to advance towards the south. Ultimately, the Germans failed to secure their flank, and the result was that Third Army was eventually able (weeks later) to flank the German forces. 

Ultimately, flankings and breakthroughs can have the same long-term strategic outcome in that they result in a deep penetration of the enemy&#039;s strategic rear. However, when it comes down to it, I insist that the defenses of Seventh Army were pushed back and flanked, rather than broken through. Its a fairly semantic difference, but it does explain why First Army faced such heavy fighting subsequently. 

In fact, if you look at a map, you will see clearly that the geographic region of Cobra was not where the so-called &#039;breakthrough&#039; army advanced. These were in fact entirely separate operations in two separate regions. VIII Corps did not advance through the Cobra zone, because there wasn&#039;t a genuine breakthrough there. VIII Corps advanced to the west, where the Germans had simply withdrawn. 

If Cobra had been a breakthrough, you would have seen VII corps conduct a breakthrough attack which would have been followed by VIII Corps advancing through the area already cleared by VII corps. This isn&#039;t what happened at all. Instead, VII attacked frontally, forcing the enemy before it to withdraw, and thereby precipitating the rapid withdrawal of the forces before VIII Corps. Once again, if VII Corps had achieved a breakthrough on its own, it would have been able to cut behind the forces facing VIII Corps and upon reaching Coutances it would have trapped the German forces to the north. THIS DID NOT HAPPEN. This was in fact the goal of Cobra, and it was NOT achieved. 

The Germans managed to retreat and avoided the danger of a genuine breakthrough.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, the definition of &#039;forward&#039; can be pretty vague, and frankly I&#039;m not convinced that the FM1-02 is the epitome of military terminology. In any case, I&#039;m not saying there wasn&#039;t a tactical breakthrough. All I&#039;m saying is that a genuine strategic breakthrough is a particularly special circumstance, and I don&#039;t think Cobra achieved that. </p>
<p>I think Luke Truxal is far more accurate in suggesting the term &#034;rout&#034; but I would suggest the term &#034;fighting retreat&#034; as an even more accurate of the German activity. The German line was smashed heavily, but rather than being broken and left behind, the Germans were able to pull back and offer significant resistance as they did so. In a true breakthrough, the defenses do NOT pull back. That&#039;s the big difference. </p>
<p>As it happened, they pulled their line back towards the southeast, thus attempting to refuse their flank and thereby allowing VIII Corps (NOT Third Army) to advance towards the south. Ultimately, the Germans failed to secure their flank, and the result was that Third Army was eventually able (weeks later) to flank the German forces. </p>
<p>Ultimately, flankings and breakthroughs can have the same long-term strategic outcome in that they result in a deep penetration of the enemy&#039;s strategic rear. However, when it comes down to it, I insist that the defenses of Seventh Army were pushed back and flanked, rather than broken through. Its a fairly semantic difference, but it does explain why First Army faced such heavy fighting subsequently. </p>
<p>In fact, if you look at a map, you will see clearly that the geographic region of Cobra was not where the so-called &#039;breakthrough&#039; army advanced. These were in fact entirely separate operations in two separate regions. VIII Corps did not advance through the Cobra zone, because there wasn&#039;t a genuine breakthrough there. VIII Corps advanced to the west, where the Germans had simply withdrawn. </p>
<p>If Cobra had been a breakthrough, you would have seen VII corps conduct a breakthrough attack which would have been followed by VIII Corps advancing through the area already cleared by VII corps. This isn&#039;t what happened at all. Instead, VII attacked frontally, forcing the enemy before it to withdraw, and thereby precipitating the rapid withdrawal of the forces before VIII Corps. Once again, if VII Corps had achieved a breakthrough on its own, it would have been able to cut behind the forces facing VIII Corps and upon reaching Coutances it would have trapped the German forces to the north. THIS DID NOT HAPPEN. This was in fact the goal of Cobra, and it was NOT achieved. </p>
<p>The Germans managed to retreat and avoided the danger of a genuine breakthrough.</p>
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		<title>By: roger cirillo</title>
		<link>http://www.historynet.com/hodges-a-genius-for-war.htm#comment-358367</link>
		<dc:creator>roger cirillo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Nov 2010 15:24:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historynet.com/?p=13682948#comment-358367</guid>
		<description>In the case of First Army, the key question is how were the corps used? As the corps did the fighting, their success defines the army success. In the Huertgen, Bradley pulled V Corps south to reinforce on a non existent path into Germany while supporting his secondary effort against the Saar. This gave Hodges inadequate strength during the key weeks of the campaign, early September. The ball game was always north of the ardennes; to cripple yourself by spreading out on a large front gave the ability to block small penetrations to the Germans, rather than try to fight a massive one both in the Aachen Cologne Corridor, and north around the Siegfried Line in Holland and northern Belgium.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In the case of First Army, the key question is how were the corps used? As the corps did the fighting, their success defines the army success. In the Huertgen, Bradley pulled V Corps south to reinforce on a non existent path into Germany while supporting his secondary effort against the Saar. This gave Hodges inadequate strength during the key weeks of the campaign, early September. The ball game was always north of the ardennes; to cripple yourself by spreading out on a large front gave the ability to block small penetrations to the Germans, rather than try to fight a massive one both in the Aachen Cologne Corridor, and north around the Siegfried Line in Holland and northern Belgium.</p>
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		<title>By: Bill Nance</title>
		<link>http://www.historynet.com/hodges-a-genius-for-war.htm#comment-358296</link>
		<dc:creator>Bill Nance</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Nov 2010 12:06:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historynet.com/?p=13682948#comment-358296</guid>
		<description>Just to be dogmatic - This is straight from FM 1-02, the US Army&#039;s doctrinal dictionary. 
breakthrough – A rupturing of the enemy’s forward defenses that occurs as a result of a
penetration. A breakthrough permits the passage of an exploitation force. See also attack;
exploitation; pursuit. (FM 3-90)

First Army&#039;s operation Cobra resulted in a penetration, the Third Army was the exploitation force.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just to be dogmatic &#8211; This is straight from FM 1-02, the US Army&#039;s doctrinal dictionary.<br />
breakthrough – A rupturing of the enemy’s forward defenses that occurs as a result of a<br />
penetration. A breakthrough permits the passage of an exploitation force. See also attack;<br />
exploitation; pursuit. (FM 3-90)</p>
<p>First Army&#039;s operation Cobra resulted in a penetration, the Third Army was the exploitation force.</p>
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		<title>By: Luke Truxal</title>
		<link>http://www.historynet.com/hodges-a-genius-for-war.htm#comment-357475</link>
		<dc:creator>Luke Truxal</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 30 Oct 2010 20:10:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historynet.com/?p=13682948#comment-357475</guid>
		<description>So Cobra was more of a German route than a breakthrough?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So Cobra was more of a German route than a breakthrough?</p>
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		<title>By: Adam Rinkleff</title>
		<link>http://www.historynet.com/hodges-a-genius-for-war.htm#comment-356892</link>
		<dc:creator>Adam Rinkleff</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Oct 2010 20:48:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historynet.com/?p=13682948#comment-356892</guid>
		<description>I just think most people have a very broad definition of breakthrough that might as well be applied to every time an army attacks and hits the enemy line. Just because you attack and advance past the enemy line does not mean its a breakthrough. In my opinion a true operational breakthrough allows you to smash through an enemy line so FAST, such that your troops are well in the enemy rear, while their infantry are still stuck in their starting positions. This is not what happened in Cobra. The Germans successfully retreated in front of the Allied advance. They took heavy casualties, sure, but they still pulled their divisions back to a second line, and then a third, and then a fourth.

All of these lines were ultimately broken through in the broadest sense that American units pushed through them. But that is a mis-use of the term. People are looking at a line on a map, and saying, &quot;Well, the Allies passed that line, so therefore they clearly broke through the line.&quot; But the term doesn&#039;t really apply to a geographic line, but rather to the line formed by an army. In the case of Cobra, the Germans steadily pulled their defensive line steadily backwards in front of the Allied advance. Unfortunately, for them, the geography was such that as they retreated their flank was left wide open. It was this that allowed Allied troops to get behind the German line. Had there been a truly genuine breakthrough, entire German divisions would have been completely surrounded and forced to surrender, and not at Falaise, but at Coutances.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I just think most people have a very broad definition of breakthrough that might as well be applied to every time an army attacks and hits the enemy line. Just because you attack and advance past the enemy line does not mean its a breakthrough. In my opinion a true operational breakthrough allows you to smash through an enemy line so FAST, such that your troops are well in the enemy rear, while their infantry are still stuck in their starting positions. This is not what happened in Cobra. The Germans successfully retreated in front of the Allied advance. They took heavy casualties, sure, but they still pulled their divisions back to a second line, and then a third, and then a fourth.</p>
<p>All of these lines were ultimately broken through in the broadest sense that American units pushed through them. But that is a mis-use of the term. People are looking at a line on a map, and saying, &#034;Well, the Allies passed that line, so therefore they clearly broke through the line.&#034; But the term doesn&#039;t really apply to a geographic line, but rather to the line formed by an army. In the case of Cobra, the Germans steadily pulled their defensive line steadily backwards in front of the Allied advance. Unfortunately, for them, the geography was such that as they retreated their flank was left wide open. It was this that allowed Allied troops to get behind the German line. Had there been a truly genuine breakthrough, entire German divisions would have been completely surrounded and forced to surrender, and not at Falaise, but at Coutances.</p>
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		<title>By: Adam Rinkleff</title>
		<link>http://www.historynet.com/hodges-a-genius-for-war.htm#comment-356883</link>
		<dc:creator>Adam Rinkleff</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Oct 2010 20:33:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.historynet.com/?p=13682948#comment-356883</guid>
		<description>I think we have different definitions of &#039;breakthrough&#039;, mine is clearly much more narrowly defined. Ultimately, I don&#039;t think the term is particularly appropriate because of its connotation. It creates the suggestion that the subsequent operations were able to advance into space, essentially unopposed by significant defenses. This just wasn&#039;t the case. 

The word &#039;through&#039; suggests something well in excess of what happened. Even Blumenson makes the mistake of stating that in the aftermath of Cobra the Germans were &quot;impotent&quot;. No, I disagree. The Germans did conduct a fighting retreat, which is exactly what a genuine breakthrough is supposed to prevent. 

Ultimately, was the effect essentially the same? Sure, by attacking on the flank, Third Army was able to envelop the German flank, but this was only because of geography, not because the German line had ceased to exist. This is why its not a terribly important issue to argue about. But for the troops in First Army, I think it was quite clear that they were pushing a line backwards, rather than having broken through and bypassed that line.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think we have different definitions of &#039;breakthrough&#039;, mine is clearly much more narrowly defined. Ultimately, I don&#039;t think the term is particularly appropriate because of its connotation. It creates the suggestion that the subsequent operations were able to advance into space, essentially unopposed by significant defenses. This just wasn&#039;t the case. </p>
<p>The word &#039;through&#039; suggests something well in excess of what happened. Even Blumenson makes the mistake of stating that in the aftermath of Cobra the Germans were &#034;impotent&#034;. No, I disagree. The Germans did conduct a fighting retreat, which is exactly what a genuine breakthrough is supposed to prevent. </p>
<p>Ultimately, was the effect essentially the same? Sure, by attacking on the flank, Third Army was able to envelop the German flank, but this was only because of geography, not because the German line had ceased to exist. This is why its not a terribly important issue to argue about. But for the troops in First Army, I think it was quite clear that they were pushing a line backwards, rather than having broken through and bypassed that line.</p>
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