Comments on: Gulf of Tonkin Incident: Reappraisal 40 Years Later http://www.historynet.com/gulf-of-tonkin-incident-reappraisal-40-years-later.htm From the World's Largest History Magazine Publisher Thu, 23 May 2013 09:29:12 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.2 By: Chris Russell http://www.historynet.com/gulf-of-tonkin-incident-reappraisal-40-years-later.htm#comment-681789 Chris Russell Tue, 09 Aug 2011 07:38:04 +0000 #comment-681789 My dad, Colonel Clyde R. Russell was the author of Op Plan 34A. He wrote the plans for and was the first commander of the Studies and Observations Group (MACV-SOG). It was SOG that was tasked with conducting the clandestine and highly secret commando raids against the North Vietnamese. As I understand it, MACV-SOG had two "nasty" class PT boats in the North Vietnamese waters on Aug 2 and Aug 4. He was under the control of Mr. McNamara and the JCS. Mr. McNamara micro-managed the highly classified operations against North Vietnam. The Vietnam war was started by Mr. McNamara to help get Lyndon Johnson elected President. His oval office conversations with Lyndon Johnson re: the Vietnam war have recently been released and offer a fascinating picture of why that war was ever prosecuted in the manner that it was. More insight on this episode can be had via the book entitled: SOG The Secret Wars of America's Commandos in Vietnam by John L. Plaster My dad, Colonel Clyde R. Russell was the author of Op Plan 34A. He wrote the plans for and was the first commander of the Studies and Observations Group (MACV-SOG). It was SOG that was tasked with conducting the clandestine and highly secret commando raids against the North Vietnamese. As I understand it, MACV-SOG had two "nasty" class PT boats in the North Vietnamese waters on Aug 2 and Aug 4. He was under the control of Mr. McNamara and the JCS. Mr. McNamara micro-managed the highly classified operations against North Vietnam. The Vietnam war was started by Mr. McNamara to help get Lyndon Johnson elected President. His oval office conversations with Lyndon Johnson re: the Vietnam war have recently been released and offer a fascinating picture of why that war was ever prosecuted in the manner that it was. More insight on this episode can be had via the book entitled: SOG The Secret Wars of America's Commandos in Vietnam by John L. Plaster

]]> By: Jim Treanor http://www.historynet.com/gulf-of-tonkin-incident-reappraisal-40-years-later.htm#comment-464719 Jim Treanor Wed, 16 Feb 2011 21:26:35 +0000 #comment-464719 As Turner Joy's EMO and Assistant OI Division Officer at the time of the incident, I'm puzzled by the claim that "all first time enlisted personnel were transferred off the Maddox and Turner Joy and replaced with career personnel from the Pritchett and other division ships PRIOR to the August 2 'attack'." That certainly wasn't the case with Turner Joy's ET's or RD's, whose complement on 4 August comprised the group we deployed with from Long Beach in March 1964. For anyone who's interested, my own analysis of the Moise and Hanyok accounts which constitute the standard (read "skewed") interpretations of the events of 4 August is posted at http://jimtranr.com. As Turner Joy's EMO and Assistant OI Division Officer at the time of the incident, I'm puzzled by the claim that "all first time enlisted personnel were transferred off the Maddox and Turner Joy and replaced with career personnel from the Pritchett and other division ships PRIOR to the August 2 'attack'." That certainly wasn't the case with Turner Joy's ET's or RD's, whose complement on 4 August comprised the group we deployed with from Long Beach in March 1964.

For anyone who's interested, my own analysis of the Moise and Hanyok accounts which constitute the standard (read "skewed") interpretations of the events of 4 August is posted at http://jimtranr.com.

]]> By: Bill Dean http://www.historynet.com/gulf-of-tonkin-incident-reappraisal-40-years-later.htm#comment-387202 Bill Dean Wed, 08 Dec 2010 06:54:28 +0000 #comment-387202 I was an ET5 (electronics tech) on the USS Pritchett DD561 not too far from Madux and Turner joy during these events. I never read why all first time enlisted personnel were transferred off the Madux and Turner Joy and replaced with career personnel from the Pritchett and other division ships PRIOR to the August 2 "attack" Could it be that career personnel would be less likely to talk about the fact that no attack took place. When our career radarmen returned a few days later, they were very evasive about what happened---it seemed strange at the time but I later realized it was because nothing happened, it was only a setup to justify bombing North Vietnam I was an ET5 (electronics tech) on the USS Pritchett DD561 not too far from Madux and Turner joy during these events. I never read why all first time enlisted personnel were transferred off the Madux and Turner Joy and replaced with career personnel from the Pritchett and other division ships PRIOR to the August 2 "attack" Could it be that career personnel would be less likely to talk about the fact that no attack took place. When our career radarmen returned a few days later, they were very evasive about what happened—it seemed strange at the time but I later realized it was because nothing happened, it was only a setup to justify bombing North Vietnam

]]> By: Leila C Ogier http://www.historynet.com/gulf-of-tonkin-incident-reappraisal-40-years-later.htm#comment-313828 Leila C Ogier Fri, 30 Jul 2010 15:04:34 +0000 #comment-313828 I am the widow of Cdr. (captain of the Maddox) residing in Monterey,CA. All I ask and hope that this aug. 2nd is the 48th.anniversary of the "Gulf of Tonkin incident. be remembered and honored. TONKIN: THE UNTOLD STORY OF HOW WE GOT INTO VIETNAM, Only TRUE article on that subject that I read. I am the widow of Cdr. (captain of the Maddox) residing in Monterey,CA.

All I ask and hope that this aug. 2nd is the 48th.anniversary of the "Gulf of Tonkin incident. be remembered and honored.

TONKIN: THE UNTOLD STORY OF HOW WE GOT INTO VIETNAM, Only TRUE article on that subject that I read.

]]> By: DVD Review: Loose Change 9/11: An American Coup (2009) | Whalertly http://www.historynet.com/gulf-of-tonkin-incident-reappraisal-40-years-later.htm#comment-116109 DVD Review: Loose Change 9/11: An American Coup (2009) | Whalertly Fri, 11 Sep 2009 21:10:21 +0000 #comment-116109 [...] Gulf of Tonkin were under attack. While it was later revealed to be a mistake, our ships actually were attacked days later. The United States used this to enter the Vietnam War. On September 11, 2001, four planes were [...] [...] Gulf of Tonkin were under attack. While it was later revealed to be a mistake, our ships actually were attacked days later. The United States used this to enter the Vietnam War. On September 11, 2001, four planes were [...]

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