Comments on: Ed Lansdale's Black Warfare in 1950s Vietnam http://www.historynet.com/ed-lansdales-black-warfare-in-1950s-vietnam.htm From the World's Largest History Magazine Publisher Wed, 22 May 2013 02:58:19 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.2 By: PW Class 11 – How to defeat a superpower: The asymmetrical warfare of North Vietnam and El Salvador’s FMLN insurgency | Acme of Skill http://www.historynet.com/ed-lansdales-black-warfare-in-1950s-vietnam.htm#comment-823982 PW Class 11 – How to defeat a superpower: The asymmetrical warfare of North Vietnam and El Salvador’s FMLN insurgency | Acme of Skill Fri, 09 Nov 2012 16:43:17 +0000 http://www.historynet.com/?p=13681844#comment-823982 [...] D. Bernstein, “Ed Lansdale’s Black Warfare in 1950s Vietnam,” HistoryNet.com. This article tells how the US tried to wage political warfare against the [...] [...] D. Bernstein, "Ed Lansdale's Black Warfare in 1950s Vietnam," HistoryNet.com. This article tells how the US tried to wage political warfare against the [...]

]]> By: B Patterson http://www.historynet.com/ed-lansdales-black-warfare-in-1950s-vietnam.htm#comment-812503 B Patterson Thu, 19 Jul 2012 02:38:25 +0000 http://www.historynet.com/?p=13681844#comment-812503 Mr. Laurie: From your comment I conclude that you obtained your knowledge of the Viets from having read others' books; be very careful of what you read and I will remind you of one of the oldest adages in the Orient, "Be careful...what you see may not be what you get." Your statement "Lansdale had nothing to do with Montagnards" is inaccurate. When I was attached to the 5th SFG @ Nha Trang 1963-64, Lansdale's fingerprints were all over the 5th's activities, including the numerous tribes of the Yards, Nungs. He had warned of the danger of the Yards' revolting...in came FULRO right on target. He was one who recommended the Petes use the Nungs, who gave total allegiance to the Petes.No Pete would refuse to turn his back to his Nung. Mr. Laurie:
From your comment I conclude that you obtained your knowledge of the Viets from having read others' books; be very careful of what you read and I will remind you of one of the oldest adages in the Orient, "Be careful…what you see may not be what you get." Your statement "Lansdale had nothing to do with Montagnards" is inaccurate. When I was attached to the 5th SFG @ Nha Trang 1963-64, Lansdale's fingerprints were all over the 5th's activities, including the numerous tribes of the Yards, Nungs. He had warned of the danger of the Yards' revolting…in came FULRO right on target. He was one who recommended the Petes use the Nungs, who gave total allegiance to the Petes.No Pete would refuse to turn his back to his Nung.

]]> By: John http://www.historynet.com/ed-lansdales-black-warfare-in-1950s-vietnam.htm#comment-445507 John Sat, 29 Jan 2011 02:34:48 +0000 http://www.historynet.com/?p=13681844#comment-445507 Throughout the war the North Vietnamese government had a detailed and systematic plan to execute and murder South Vietnamese citizens they deemed as threats. Also, Ho Chi Minh was absolutely vicious to the people in the North. R.J. Rummell estimates that from 1957 to 1975 the North Vietnamese government executed around 50,000 North Vietnamese civilians (most were executed by 1960). Source: R.J. Rummell (1997). "Vietnam Democide: Estimates, Sources & Calculations". North Vietnam’s brutality did not stop at the war’s end. An estimated 95,000 South Vietnamese civilians died in the communist “re-education” camps, another 500,000 were involved in forced labor projects, which killed 48,000 civilians. Another 100,000 were executed. Finally, 400,000 people died while trying to flee Vietnam. This does not include the unknown fate of thousands of indigent people enslaved for laborious work on the Ho Chi Minh trail throughout the war. I find it disturbing when everyone (seemingly) rips the USA apart because of the much publicized My Lai Massacre. Clearly this was committed by a few individuals and not US government and army policy. Some soldiers refused to participate and some simply walked away. This came to an end when other US troops protected the civilians and threatened to shoot their fellow soldiers. We that have never experienced the tremendous stress of war could never imagine committing such an act. This is not to be used as an excuse. What these few soldiers did was wrong. This terrible event amounts to nothing, compared to the planned and premeditated slaughter of civilians, throughout the war by the North Vietnamese government and NVA official policy. Our mistake was that we left South Vietnam after we overwhelmingly defeated North Vietnam. We stayed in Germany, Japan and South Korea. We left South Vietnam because of public sentiment based upon pseudo information. Which of these countries are better off? Which of these governments and countries would you now choose to live in? There are a few books written well after the war, but I believe “Unheralded Victory” by Mark W. Woodruff is easiest to learn what really happened in Vietnam. This eye opening book was written in 1999. The book's data and sources come from American and Vietnamese well after the conflict to erase emotions and patriotism. Alibris.com has used ones available for very little cost. My guess is that once you read this book, you will be in awe of the veterans accomplishments, despite having to endure all the restrictions and ill-placed public negativity. In general, our nation and veterans have nothing to be ashamed of regarding our participation in the Vietnam War. Throughout the war the North Vietnamese government had a detailed and systematic plan to execute and murder South Vietnamese citizens they deemed as threats. Also, Ho Chi Minh was absolutely vicious to the people in the North. R.J. Rummell estimates that from 1957 to 1975 the North Vietnamese government executed around 50,000 North Vietnamese civilians (most were executed by 1960). Source: R.J. Rummell (1997). "Vietnam Democide: Estimates, Sources & Calculations".

North Vietnam’s brutality did not stop at the war’s end. An estimated 95,000 South Vietnamese civilians died in the communist “re-education” camps, another 500,000 were involved in forced labor projects, which killed 48,000 civilians. Another 100,000 were executed. Finally, 400,000 people died while trying to flee Vietnam. This does not include the unknown fate of thousands of indigent people enslaved for laborious work on the Ho Chi Minh trail throughout the war.

I find it disturbing when everyone (seemingly) rips the USA apart because of the much publicized My Lai Massacre. Clearly this was committed by a few individuals and not US government and army policy. Some soldiers refused to participate and some simply walked away. This came to an end when other US troops protected the civilians and threatened to shoot their fellow soldiers. We that have never experienced the tremendous stress of war could never imagine committing such an act. This is not to be used as an excuse. What these few soldiers did was wrong. This terrible event amounts to nothing, compared to the planned and premeditated slaughter of civilians, throughout the war by the North Vietnamese government and NVA official policy.

Our mistake was that we left South Vietnam after we overwhelmingly defeated North Vietnam. We stayed in Germany, Japan and South Korea. We left South Vietnam because of public sentiment based upon pseudo information. Which of these countries are better off? Which of these governments and countries would you now choose to live in?

There are a few books written well after the war, but I believe “Unheralded Victory” by Mark W. Woodruff is easiest to learn what really happened in Vietnam. This eye opening book was written in 1999. The book's data and sources come from American and Vietnamese well after the conflict to erase emotions and patriotism.

Alibris.com has used ones available for very little cost.

My guess is that once you read this book, you will be in awe of the veterans accomplishments, despite having to endure all the restrictions and ill-placed public negativity.

In general, our nation and veterans have nothing to be ashamed of regarding our participation in the Vietnam War.

]]> By: Mauge http://www.historynet.com/ed-lansdales-black-warfare-in-1950s-vietnam.htm#comment-382351 Mauge Fri, 03 Dec 2010 08:29:36 +0000 http://www.historynet.com/?p=13681844#comment-382351 Je pense qu'Edward Lansdale était un officier intelligent et prudent ! Si ses supérieurs l'avait écouté, les Etats-Unis auraient probablement gagné la guerre ! Il avait fait du bon travail aux philippines et son analyse de la société vietnamienne et du viet cong était bonne ! Pour moi Lansdale reste un personnage aussi fascinant qu'étrange ! Je pense qu'Edward Lansdale était un officier intelligent et prudent !
Si ses supérieurs l'avait écouté, les Etats-Unis auraient probablement gagné la guerre !
Il avait fait du bon travail aux philippines et son analyse de la société vietnamienne et du viet cong était bonne !
Pour moi Lansdale reste un personnage aussi fascinant qu'étrange !

]]> By: ?P CHI?N L??C – Lê Xuân Nhu?n « http://www.historynet.com/ed-lansdales-black-warfare-in-1950s-vietnam.htm#comment-328479 ?P CHI?N L??C – Lê Xuân Nhu?n « Wed, 01 Sep 2010 17:54:43 +0000 http://www.historynet.com/?p=13681844#comment-328479 [...] http://www.historynet.com/ed-lansdales-black-warfare-in-1950s-vietnam.htm [...] [...] http://www.historynet.com/ed-lansdales-black-warfare-in-1950s-vietnam.htm [...]

]]> By: Jack Jennings http://www.historynet.com/ed-lansdales-black-warfare-in-1950s-vietnam.htm#comment-317947 Jack Jennings Thu, 12 Aug 2010 17:39:49 +0000 http://www.historynet.com/?p=13681844#comment-317947 Interesting article on COL Lansdale. What is missing is some of the clandestine operations that he set up against the North. He recruited those coming from the North to carry out black operations against the North and used Saipan as a training site. Also, some Taiwan commandos were "borrowed" to carry out some operations. Interesting article on COL Lansdale. What is missing is some of the clandestine operations that he set up against the North. He recruited those coming from the North to carry out black operations against the North and used Saipan as a training site. Also, some Taiwan commandos were "borrowed" to carry out some operations.

]]> By: John http://www.historynet.com/ed-lansdales-black-warfare-in-1950s-vietnam.htm#comment-215433 John Sun, 07 Mar 2010 03:14:43 +0000 http://www.historynet.com/?p=13681844#comment-215433 Another interesting tidbit in history: Ed Lansdale was the inspiration for Graham Greene's "Quiet American" in the famous novel. That book is still entertaining to read today. Another interesting tidbit in history: Ed Lansdale was the inspiration for Graham Greene's "Quiet American" in the famous novel. That book is still entertaining to read today.

]]> By: R J Del Vecchio http://www.historynet.com/ed-lansdales-black-warfare-in-1950s-vietnam.htm#comment-213221 R J Del Vecchio Fri, 05 Mar 2010 14:04:39 +0000 http://www.historynet.com/?p=13681844#comment-213221 This article has some serious inaccuracies in it. There were not "hundreds of sects" in the South, there were no more than four major sects. The Geneva Accords did not mandate general elections, they were mentioned in passing once, and only referred to specifically in the Addendum document, which was not signed by anyone. The elections as mentioned in the negotiations when the documents were drawn up were to be free elections monitored by the UN, and the communists were not about to permit any such thing in their territory. The great majority of those who went South were Catholics, and they needed very little convincing as they already had evidence of what life under communism would be like. Any discussion with those who left the North, and two decades later fled the South to live here, will reveal that they had plenty of reason to migrate South without any prompting. Lansdale's work may have convinced a small fraction of the refugees to migrate South, but overall that effect was minimal. Also, at least another 300-400,000 wanted to migrate, but were heavily "discouraged" by the communists from doing so. The article neglects to mention this. This article has some serious inaccuracies in it. There were not "hundreds of sects" in the South, there were no more than four major sects. The Geneva Accords did not mandate general elections, they were mentioned in passing once, and only referred to specifically in the Addendum document, which was not signed by anyone. The elections as mentioned in the negotiations when the documents were drawn up were to be free elections monitored by the UN, and the communists were not about to permit any such thing in their territory.
The great majority of those who went South were Catholics, and they needed very little convincing as they already had evidence of what life under communism would be like. Any discussion with those who left the North, and two decades later fled the South to live here, will reveal that they had plenty of reason to migrate South without any prompting.
Lansdale's work may have convinced a small fraction of the refugees to migrate South, but overall that effect was minimal. Also, at least another 300-400,000 wanted to migrate, but were heavily "discouraged" by the communists from doing so. The article neglects to mention this.

]]> By: Bill Laurie http://www.historynet.com/ed-lansdales-black-warfare-in-1950s-vietnam.htm#comment-213126 Bill Laurie Fri, 05 Mar 2010 06:17:27 +0000 http://www.historynet.com/?p=13681844#comment-213126 Not accurate history. Several gross over generalizations, entwined with lack of experience with Viet Namese people. The political situation was chaotic, but there were no 'hundreds' of sects. The Geneva Agreements signed by belligerents contained no mention of '56 elections. Elections were cited in a 'final declaration' which NO ONE signed. These were to have been free elections, with secret ballots, and international supervision. Ho Chi Minh would have nothing to do with such 'interference.' Lansdale's efforts could not have been driving factor behind '54 exodus to the south. His team was only there a few months and he, as an advertising expert, knew there wasn't time nor resources to apply two basic advertising principles: 'reach' and 'frequency.' Viet Namese fleeing North Viet Nam did so because of what they had experienced and heard about Viet Minh brutality. After all, it was 1945 (rpt: 1945) when Ho Chi Minh launched a pogrom against non-communist, anti-French Viet Namese nationalist groups, among them the Viet Nam Quoc Dan Dang, the Dai VIets, the Dong Minh Hoi, the Phuc Quoc Hoi, the Hoa Hao, etc. Blood flowed as non-communist nationalists were killed and the killing went on from there. Former communist Col. Bui Tin recently stated Viet Nam would have achieved independence earlier and without as much bloodshed had Ho Chi Minh not attacked and eviscerated non-communist independence forces. Lansdale's 'propaganda' turned to be an accurate prediction. Tens of thousands were killed in the post '54 'land reform,' scores of scholars, writers, poets were jailed for apostasy of criticizing communist ruthlessness. Viet Namese peasants revolted in 1956, in Ho Chi Minh's home province of Nghe An. They were put down by brute military force. Finally, no one is going to convince VIet Namese people of anything with this ease, unless they have reason to believe something to begin with. Had they been this amendable to propaganda it would have been easy to have defused the indigenous Viet Cong. Read Bui Diem's IN THE JAWS OF HISTORY to learn much more than this article even suggests. Am sure the author means well, but he needs to dig deeper to get to the truth of things. See also Hoang Van Chi's FROM COLONIALISM TO COMMUNISM. Chi had been a Viet Minh until he saw the very ugly underside of Ho's mutant pseudo-nationalism. See also anything written by Nguyen Chi Thien, a once loyal Viet Minh supporter who ended up spending 27 years in prison. His work FLOWERS FROM HELL (HOA DIA NGUC) should be required reading for anyone who wants to say anything about Viet Nam. Note: Lansdale had nothing to do with the Montagnards at all. Nothing. Not accurate history. Several gross over generalizations, entwined with lack of experience with Viet Namese people. The political situation was chaotic, but there were no 'hundreds' of sects. The Geneva Agreements signed by belligerents contained no mention of '56 elections. Elections were cited in a 'final declaration' which NO ONE signed. These were to have been free elections, with secret ballots, and international supervision. Ho Chi Minh would have nothing to do with such 'interference.' Lansdale's efforts could not have been driving factor behind '54 exodus to the south. His team was only there a few months and he, as an advertising expert, knew there wasn't time nor resources to apply two basic advertising principles: 'reach' and 'frequency.' Viet Namese fleeing North Viet Nam did so because of what they had experienced and heard about Viet Minh brutality. After all, it was 1945 (rpt: 1945) when Ho Chi Minh launched a pogrom against non-communist, anti-French Viet Namese nationalist groups, among them the Viet Nam Quoc Dan Dang, the Dai VIets, the Dong Minh Hoi, the Phuc Quoc Hoi, the Hoa Hao, etc. Blood flowed as non-communist nationalists were killed and the killing went on from there. Former communist Col. Bui Tin recently stated Viet Nam would have achieved independence earlier and without as much bloodshed had Ho Chi Minh not attacked and eviscerated non-communist independence forces.
Lansdale's 'propaganda' turned to be an accurate prediction. Tens of thousands were killed in the post '54 'land reform,' scores of scholars, writers, poets were jailed for apostasy of criticizing communist ruthlessness. Viet Namese peasants revolted in 1956, in Ho Chi Minh's home province of Nghe An. They were put down by brute military force.
Finally, no one is going to convince VIet Namese people of anything with this ease, unless they have reason to believe something to begin with. Had they been this amendable to propaganda it would have been easy to have defused the indigenous Viet Cong.
Read Bui Diem's IN THE JAWS OF HISTORY to learn much more than this article even suggests. Am sure the author means well, but he needs to dig deeper to get to the truth of things. See also Hoang Van Chi's FROM COLONIALISM TO COMMUNISM. Chi had been a Viet Minh until he saw the very ugly underside of Ho's mutant pseudo-nationalism. See also anything written by Nguyen Chi Thien, a once loyal Viet Minh supporter who ended up spending 27 years in prison. His work FLOWERS FROM HELL (HOA DIA NGUC) should be required reading for anyone who wants to say anything about Viet Nam.
Note: Lansdale had nothing to do with the Montagnards at all. Nothing.

]]> By: John http://www.historynet.com/ed-lansdales-black-warfare-in-1950s-vietnam.htm#comment-210242 John Tue, 02 Mar 2010 15:11:34 +0000 http://www.historynet.com/?p=13681844#comment-210242 For a fresh perspective on what President Kennedy inherited with Vietnam (and Laos) and how he tried to reign in the military-industrial complex that Ike warned the nation about, this is an interesting book: "JFK and the Unspeakable: Why He Died & Why it Matters" by James Douglass. For a fresh perspective on what President Kennedy inherited with Vietnam (and Laos) and how he tried to reign in the military-industrial complex that Ike warned the nation about, this is an interesting book: "JFK and the Unspeakable: Why He Died & Why it Matters" by James Douglass.

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