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Defiance – Edward Zwick InterviewBy Jay Wertz | Military History | 6 comments | Print This Post | Email This Post EZ: I think it was the fact that their defiance was to perpetuate the spirit of life, was not to let that be taken away from them. The contradictions of having something as jubilant and as life affirming as a wedding in the midst of the need to protect themselves violently was very much at the heart of the film. Subscribe Today
HN: You shot the film in Lithuania. How were the production logistics there, especially in terms of armament and military vehicles? EZ: There were certain things that were there, but the truth is most of that had to come from other places. It came from Germany, from the Czech Republic and a great deal of it from England. There is a filmmaking tradition in Lithuania, but it’s mostly of smaller-scale television. There have been movies that have started to come there now—I think we were the biggest production to have come in there so far. We brought department heads from all over the world and found their matches in some of the Lithuanian crew. Sometimes we were teaching and sometimes we were pleasantly surprised to see the level of sophistication that was already there. HN: These people obviously endured incredible hardships; this is very evident in the film. It would appear that perhaps the actors, even you and the crew had to face some tough situations to get some of these scenes on celluloid. Is that true? EZ: Well, we did. It was very cold and very wet. I don’t mean to overdramatize it—at the end of the day there was a hotel room waiting for us. And yet all day long, we were very cold, the actors were wearing costumes where their feet would freeze and their fingers would become numb and I think that’s something that they managed to use for their characterizations and their performances. It wasn’t pleasant, but I think it lent something very particular to the experience and that in some sense amplified their performances. HN: Several of your important films, Glory, Blood Diamonds and Defiance among them, have characters who become unlikely or reluctant heroes in the midst of war or conflict. What is it about this theme that keeps drawing you back to it? EZ: I guess it speaks to the human potential in all of us. I’m not interested in supermen, I’m interested in ordinary men. HN: The film focuses primarily on the formations of the group and the challenges of the first winter of 1941–42, but their story continued. What happened to the Bielski community from then to the end of the war? EZ: As the Russian partisans gained more dominion in the forest the pressure lessened somewhat. They joined the Russians in many more operations. They were able to gain some greater permanency although they had to keep moving their camp. At the end of the war, as the Germans were retreating, they stumbled upon the Bielski camp and killed several more. HN: They were actually targeted specifically by Hitler—known and targeted by him when the rest of the Eastern Front started to crumble. EZ: Yes. They sent two divisions, 20,000 men, into the forest to try to get them and they couldn’t. HN: How do you feel about your success in bringing these great stories, these little-known stories, to the screen? Is this something that you see as a challenge in your career? EZ: Just the fact about getting these movies made that I care about, as an opportunity to be an artist, but also to hold up the mirror to the world, is an extraordinary opportunity. It’s also a responsibility I’ve always felt, and I just hope that I’m able to keep doing it. Editor’s note: Read a review of the movie Defiance by clicking here. Jay Wertz is the author of three books: The Native American Experience, The Civil War Experience 1861-1865 and co-author of Smithsonian’s Great Battles and Battlefields of the Civil War with prominent historian Edwin C. Bearss. He has also been a columnist for Civil War Times Illustrated and has written for Aviation History. He is the producer-director-writer of the award-winning 13-part documentary series Smithsonian’s Great Battles of the Civil War for The Learning Channel and Time-Life Video. During his 33-year film and TV career in Hollywood he has worked on many historical projects. He lives in Montclair, California. Pages: 1 2 3Help HistoryNet by bookmarking to
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6 Comments to “Defiance – Edward Zwick Interview”
And good luck to the brave Palestinian people. Peace.
By euclidcreek on Jan 15, 2009 at 7:42 pm
In his fine review of “Defiance,” Jay Wertz consistently misspells the word “guerrilla.” There’s also a sentence (on page 3 of his review) that reads “… both men and women are trained to shoot and everyone gets the same ratios.” I’m fairly certain that last word is supposed to be “rations.”
Curt Scott
Santa Clarita, California
661-251-0806
By Curt Scott on Jan 23, 2009 at 5:59 pm
What does “based upon” mean? Is it an historic renditon or is it more of the Holocaust Industry’s attempt to make us cheer Israel’s current “shooting fish [Palestinians] in a barrel [Gaza]“? THIS WOULD NOT BE AN ISSUE IF THE FILM HAD COME OUT EARLIER OR LATER– BAD TIMING.
I can’t helpt thinking that the heroism of two– exagerated or properly portrayed– should have waited its film portayal so that people do not associate what the Nazis did in the Warsaw Ghetto with what Israel is doing in Gaza. Historical analogy is a two edged sword and often unfair to both sides of the analogy; especially when dramaticized as a movie, it gets confused with hasbara. A Holywoodian version of history can be like a fire cracker held in hand too long, creating more controversy than making points. But as one who was raised by my parents’ friends– Jewish survivors of a double Holocaust, Hitler’s and Stalin’s– all through my own refuge Westward, I think more to the point is how the incredible faith in God and goodness survived in my Jewish mentors. To their deaths in Israel, all protested Israel’s lebensraum policies when they crush innocent Palestinians with an “Iron Wall” to make room for non-existent immigrants. They could not accept doing onto others as was done onto them– but Holywood will never make a film about their exemplary lives of hope. I also fear that many will not see this film because they feel propaganda expoitation of the Holocaust is a sacrilege. Zionism can be outrageously racist, as when the rabbi at the funeral of Dr. Goldstein (who shot up the Jerusalem Mosque) said that one Jewish fingernail is worth a thousand Arab lives. Nevertheless, that to this day Jews continue to be pillars of Western culture is beyond dispute. I hope we can keep the Holocaust and Zionism as separate issues, especially given how little Zionists cared for the plight of the Jews fleeing the Holocaust (Tom Segev THE SEVENTH MILLION).
AND STILL, NOT AS HASBARA, BUT AS A REMINDER OF HOW CRUEL MAN CAN BE TO MAN, I CELEBRATE THIS FILM FOR REMINDING US HOW MUCH WE RETARD OUR PLANET’S SURVIVAL BLOWING IT UP, POLUTING IT AND CUTTING EACHOTHER’S THROATS. THERE IS A POINT WHERE THIS MOVIE CELEBRATES HUMANITY AND HOPE; AND FOR THAT I SALUTE IT.
By DE Tedooru on Jan 23, 2009 at 8:02 pm
A great great movie, about some brave , brave people. All good luck to the Jewish.
By Dennis on Jan 24, 2009 at 1:00 am
I guess this is a lick-it-and-love-it propaganda site, not one for looks at history varying in viewpoint. So this movie must be cheered or you must be an anti-Semite….Wow!
By DE Teodoru on Jan 24, 2009 at 5:28 pm
The Defiance Movie-I am Zus’s son, served in the USMC and later the IDF (73 War), my brother IDF Paratrooper (1st Leb. War), my first born IDF Paratroopers (reserve); his brother is presently in the IDF Paratroopers.
The Untold Bielski Story.
Growing up they had to defend themselves and their business from the locals. They were always a family team, and also had many non Jewish friends. They developed a reputation before the War for many kilometers that “you shouldn’t mess with the Bielskis because you are sure to lose” a quote by Aron Bell Bielski. They were never petty criminals as referred to in the movie, although the police knew of them and their penchant for provoked violence. As the environment grew more hostile against Jews and the Bielskis in particular, the ante was raised and so was their response to it, ruthlessness and compassion. The Defiance movie did not show enemies’ heads being axed (see The History Channel, Jerusalem in the Woods). The Bielski Enemas in which enemies’ behinds were cleaned by grenades as each watched his fellow get blown up knowing that he will be next (The Bielski Partisans a documentary by Kumar 1996). Many unmentionable acts were done without remorse by Zus and others. In context envision what would you do if they killed your mother and father, your brothers, your wife and daughter? Between me and you if the Bielskis’ Defiance movie has any positive influence on Israeli gov’t a more assertive and permanent solution would already be in place both politically and militarily. Defiance was not intended to directly comment on Israeli policies it intended to show that all Jews are capable and obligated to live and be defiant to anyone who threatens our existence, anytime.
By bellskee on Feb 12, 2009 at 2:50 pm