Comments on: A Tale of Two Wars: World War II and Korea http://www.historynet.com/a-tale-of-two-wars-world-war-ii-and-korea.htm From the World's Largest History Magazine Publisher Fri, 24 May 2013 06:48:24 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.2 By: Steve Mitchell http://www.historynet.com/a-tale-of-two-wars-world-war-ii-and-korea.htm#comment-543242 Steve Mitchell Sat, 30 Apr 2011 22:50:36 +0000 http://www.historynet.com/a-tale-of-two-wars-world-war-ii-and-korea.htm#comment-543242 Finally, we have to remember an army travels and fights on its stomach. The Korean drought of '50 found Americans troops forced to survive by drinking rice paddy water rich in Korea's human fertilizer. Diarrhea and disease were major factors in the 8th's performance in 1950. Finally, we have to remember an army travels and fights on its stomach. The Korean drought of '50 found Americans troops forced to survive by drinking rice paddy water rich in Korea's human fertilizer.

Diarrhea and disease were major factors in the 8th's performance in 1950.

]]> By: Steve Mitchell http://www.historynet.com/a-tale-of-two-wars-world-war-ii-and-korea.htm#comment-543231 Steve Mitchell Sat, 30 Apr 2011 22:30:26 +0000 http://www.historynet.com/a-tale-of-two-wars-world-war-ii-and-korea.htm#comment-543231 - cont'd - " fine arts - Stalin style " since '43, as championed by Kim Il Sung. We have learned that Stalin never expected the American quick response to his/their strategy to reunite the peninsula by force, particularly after his Japanese spies reported that MacArthur was convinced that SK would go communist eventually anyway. Stalin badly needed that ice-free port of Pusan, which had been denied him by Roosevelt and Churchill at Yalta in Feb, '45 and again at Potsdam by Truman. Approving Kim's dream and providing Russian training, materiel and support were no-brainers. Society rebuilders and builders vs. expanding Russian totalitarian economic interests and influence in the Far East. The "playing field" was NOT level !! Archival documents released in the 90s show Stalin pulled the plug when he realized his mistake, leaving a vacuum filled by massive Chinese manpower. - cont'd -

" fine arts – Stalin style " since '43, as championed by Kim Il Sung.

We have learned that Stalin never expected the American quick response to his/their strategy to reunite the peninsula by force, particularly after his Japanese spies reported that MacArthur was convinced that SK would go communist eventually anyway.

Stalin badly needed that ice-free port of Pusan, which had been denied him by Roosevelt and Churchill at Yalta in Feb, '45 and again at Potsdam by Truman. Approving Kim's dream and providing Russian training, materiel and support were no-brainers.

Society rebuilders and builders vs. expanding Russian totalitarian economic interests and influence in the Far East.

The "playing field" was NOT level !! Archival documents released in the 90s show Stalin pulled the plug when he realized his mistake, leaving a vacuum filled by massive Chinese manpower.

]]> By: Steve Mitchell http://www.historynet.com/a-tale-of-two-wars-world-war-ii-and-korea.htm#comment-543215 Steve Mitchell Sat, 30 Apr 2011 22:00:28 +0000 http://www.historynet.com/a-tale-of-two-wars-world-war-ii-and-korea.htm#comment-543215 Early on, Bill Nance said, " There were a LOT of failures in the opening of the Korean War, but highest among them were the failures of the 8th Army's leadership prior to the war in training and preparing their men for combat. Not having a lot of funds or equipment is one thing, chilling out and living high on the hog in Japan is another." Not fair, Bill. From '45 to the '50 surprise jump into the South, American forces were hard at work, as an army of occupation, policing, supervising and helping to rebuild and develop modern infrastructure in Japan. I recall reading that about 500 troops total were doing the same in SK. Sipping on a cold American brew while the locals were struggling to get decent drinking water for their families is NOT chilling out. What were the North Koreans doing for those 5 years ? Russian-supervised training and preparing for the Asian blitzkrieg to come. Historians tell us that the senior partisan leadership in the North had been secretly spirited away to Moscow for schooling in the " fine arts Early on, Bill Nance said, " There were a LOT of failures in the opening of the Korean War, but highest among them were the failures of the 8th Army's leadership prior to the war in training and preparing their men for combat. Not having a lot of funds or equipment is one thing, chilling out and living high on the hog in Japan is another."

Not fair, Bill. From '45 to the '50 surprise jump into the South, American forces were hard at work, as an army of occupation, policing, supervising and helping to rebuild and develop modern infrastructure in Japan. I recall reading that about 500 troops total were doing the same in SK. Sipping on a cold American brew while the locals were struggling to get decent drinking water for their families is NOT chilling out.

What were the North Koreans doing for those 5 years ? Russian-supervised training and preparing for the Asian blitzkrieg to come. Historians tell us that the senior partisan leadership in the North had been secretly spirited away to Moscow for schooling in the " fine arts

]]> By: Rob Citino http://www.historynet.com/a-tale-of-two-wars-world-war-ii-and-korea.htm#comment-350499 Rob Citino Fri, 15 Oct 2010 20:34:38 +0000 http://www.historynet.com/a-tale-of-two-wars-world-war-ii-and-korea.htm#comment-350499 Fascinating, MattJ! Wars are fought by human beings. A lot of things happen "off the books," and I continue to be amazed by the accounts I read and hear from vets of every war from WWII to Iraqi Freedom. Fascinating, MattJ! Wars are fought by human beings. A lot of things happen "off the books," and I continue to be amazed by the accounts I read and hear from vets of every war from WWII to Iraqi Freedom.

]]> By: MattJ http://www.historynet.com/a-tale-of-two-wars-world-war-ii-and-korea.htm#comment-350490 MattJ Fri, 15 Oct 2010 19:58:47 +0000 http://www.historynet.com/a-tale-of-two-wars-world-war-ii-and-korea.htm#comment-350490 Mr. Cinto, thank you for publishing this wonderful account of an American hero. The General Dean life-story is perfect for the big screen. I’d like to share a couple of observations of the man. The 44th veterans genuinely admired and respected General Dean. In one way the General reminds me of another great leader, General William Tecumseh Sherman. Both held a deep kinship with their soldiers after the conflicts. As told by many 44th vets, General Dean had an open door for his 'boys.' Even as a big-shot bank executive, the General would receive any of his boys despite their circumstance. Just like Sherman. Dean had an interesting transformation, if this account is true. The official record for the number of 44th soldiers taken as prisoner of war by the Germans is miniscule. I believe the number is 19. I have personally met something like eight 44th vets held in captivity by the Germans. This cadre which represents half of the official POW count recounted the unfortunate capture many other fellow GIs. By their eye-witness account, far more than 19 buddies were taken POW in battles at Rauwiller and during Nordwind. Why the discrepancy? One 44th vet account told me General Dean provide the answer to him in personal visit in the 1960s. Before Dean’s capture by the North Koreans, Dean felt surrender was cowardice, a dishonor. A fight to the death was the only honorable alternative. And for this reason, the official battle record was understated. Dean would have it no other way. Paradoxically, Dean himself was captured in Korea. This humbled him and changed, 180 degrees, his view on the honor of surrender. It is an interesting anecdote. Mr. Cinto, thank you for publishing this wonderful account of an American hero. The General Dean life-story is perfect for the big screen.

I’d like to share a couple of observations of the man. The 44th veterans genuinely admired and respected General Dean. In one way the General reminds me of another great leader, General William Tecumseh Sherman. Both held a deep kinship with their soldiers after the conflicts. As told by many 44th vets, General Dean had an open door for his 'boys.' Even as a big-shot bank executive, the General would receive any of his boys despite their circumstance. Just like Sherman.

Dean had an interesting transformation, if this account is true. The official record for the number of 44th soldiers taken as prisoner of war by the Germans is miniscule. I believe the number is 19. I have personally met something like eight 44th vets held in captivity by the Germans. This cadre which represents half of the official POW count recounted the unfortunate capture many other fellow GIs. By their eye-witness account, far more than 19 buddies were taken POW in battles at Rauwiller and during Nordwind. Why the discrepancy? One 44th vet account told me General Dean provide the answer to him in personal visit in the 1960s. Before Dean’s capture by the North Koreans, Dean felt surrender was cowardice, a dishonor. A fight to the death was the only honorable alternative. And for this reason, the official battle record was understated. Dean would have it no other way. Paradoxically, Dean himself was captured in Korea. This humbled him and changed, 180 degrees, his view on the honor of surrender.

It is an interesting anecdote.

]]> By: Bill Nance http://www.historynet.com/a-tale-of-two-wars-world-war-ii-and-korea.htm#comment-343561 Bill Nance Thu, 30 Sep 2010 03:46:23 +0000 http://www.historynet.com/a-tale-of-two-wars-world-war-ii-and-korea.htm#comment-343561 Sir, I can respect the guy for that. Reminds me of our conversation over why Moyer responded so poorly to Vann. Looking forward to your next blog. Sir,
I can respect the guy for that. Reminds me of our conversation over why Moyer responded so poorly to Vann. Looking forward to your next blog.

]]> By: Rob Citino http://www.historynet.com/a-tale-of-two-wars-world-war-ii-and-korea.htm#comment-343545 Rob Citino Thu, 30 Sep 2010 02:28:27 +0000 http://www.historynet.com/a-tale-of-two-wars-world-war-ii-and-korea.htm#comment-343545 Bill--No one can say much good about what happened to the 24th ID in Korea. Perhaps we should let MG Dean have the last word. Responding to his Congressional medal of Honor (this was years later, after finally getting back to the States), he said: "There were heroes in Korea, but I was not one of them. There were brilliant commanders, but I was a general captured because he took a wrong road.... I wouldn’t have awarded myself a wooden star for what I did as a commander." --RC Bill–No one can say much good about what happened to the 24th ID in Korea. Perhaps we should let MG Dean have the last word. Responding to his Congressional medal of Honor (this was years later, after finally getting back to the States), he said:

"There were heroes in Korea, but I was not one of them. There were brilliant commanders, but I was a general captured because he took a wrong road…. I wouldn’t have awarded myself a wooden star for what I did as a commander."

–RC

]]> By: Bill Nance http://www.historynet.com/a-tale-of-two-wars-world-war-ii-and-korea.htm#comment-343534 Bill Nance Thu, 30 Sep 2010 01:30:06 +0000 http://www.historynet.com/a-tale-of-two-wars-world-war-ii-and-korea.htm#comment-343534 Sir, Roger, bad equipment sucks, but there's ways around that, but it requires properly trained infantry with enough discipline to pull it off, even then it's tricky, and won't always work. Maybe I'm being too hard on the guy, but he was in charge during one of the worst performances in modern American military history. There was a LOT stacked against him, and you can't blame the commander for not having the right equipment, having enough manpower (beyond what he controls), complete lack of air cover, complete lack of reconnaissance, etc. However, his troops fought poorly showing a lack of discipline and training and THAT is his fault. Sir,
Roger, bad equipment sucks, but there's ways around that, but it requires properly trained infantry with enough discipline to pull it off, even then it's tricky, and won't always work.

Maybe I'm being too hard on the guy, but he was in charge during one of the worst performances in modern American military history. There was a LOT stacked against him, and you can't blame the commander for not having the right equipment, having enough manpower (beyond what he controls), complete lack of air cover, complete lack of reconnaissance, etc. However, his troops fought poorly showing a lack of discipline and training and THAT is his fault.

]]> By: Rob Citino http://www.historynet.com/a-tale-of-two-wars-world-war-ii-and-korea.htm#comment-343467 Rob Citino Wed, 29 Sep 2010 20:49:39 +0000 http://www.historynet.com/a-tale-of-two-wars-world-war-ii-and-korea.htm#comment-343467 Point taken, Bill. But being equipped with 2.36" bazookas that can't penetrate the armor you're facing might also have had something to do with it! Not sure who gets credit for that, but my guess: it wasn't Dean. Point taken, Bill. But being equipped with 2.36" bazookas that can't penetrate the armor you're facing might also have had something to do with it! Not sure who gets credit for that, but my guess: it wasn't Dean.

]]> By: Bill Nance http://www.historynet.com/a-tale-of-two-wars-world-war-ii-and-korea.htm#comment-343370 Bill Nance Wed, 29 Sep 2010 13:14:55 +0000 http://www.historynet.com/a-tale-of-two-wars-world-war-ii-and-korea.htm#comment-343370 Sir, True, but it seems to be a trend with this particular guy. Don't get me wrong, I like aggressive, lead from the front types, but I also like people that do their jobs. There were a LOT of failures in the opening of the Korean War, but highest among them were the failures of the 8th Army's leadership prior to the war in training and preparing their men for combat. Not having a lot of funds or equipment is one thing, chilling out and living high on the hog in Japan is another. Sir,
True, but it seems to be a trend with this particular guy. Don't get me wrong, I like aggressive, lead from the front types, but I also like people that do their jobs. There were a LOT of failures in the opening of the Korean War, but highest among them were the failures of the 8th Army's leadership prior to the war in training and preparing their men for combat. Not having a lot of funds or equipment is one thing, chilling out and living high on the hog in Japan is another.

]]>