Comments on: 1st Louisiana Special Battalion at the First Battle of Manassas http://www.historynet.com/1st-louisiana-special-battalion-at-the-first-battle-of-manassas.htm From the World's Largest History Magazine Publisher Sat, 18 May 2013 23:40:29 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.2 By: Schreck http://www.historynet.com/1st-louisiana-special-battalion-at-the-first-battle-of-manassas.htm#comment-815705 Schreck Tue, 14 Aug 2012 17:48:43 +0000 #comment-815705 Maybe it's not mentioned because the story is not accurate. IF Wheat would have arrived with "2,000 Italians" he would not have commanded a dinky battalion. There is also NO primary source documentation to support said claim. It sounds cool. I'm not here to argue with you but I do think more research needs to be done. Wheat did not organize the 10th LA. Period. Granted, he would have loved regimental command but was only able to attract five companies to his banner...one of them being the Old Dominion Guards--which he formed. The 10th LA was organized at Camp Moore on July 22, 1861, long after Wheat had departed. The 10th was commanded by Antoine De Marigny and Jules Denis. De Choisel was from the 7th LA and did, for a time, command the Tigers...no documentation that he was with the 10th. And to say that all LA units were considered Tigers is not correct, either. Only after Wheat's 1st LA Special Battalion was disbanded did the brigade in which it belonged take on the name, "Tiger." Later, in 1863, LA units started to take on the term "Tiger." "Again, it's an interesting civil war postscript that I wish would be mentioned a little more often...." Again I would state that you should be the person to do it but be careful with generalities (e.g., "as part of the Tigers"). The only "Tigers" were the Irish boatmen of Capt. White's Tiger Rifles, which then applied to the battalion, and then, after August 1862, to the brigade, which pissed the original Tigers off. Neat story but please don't connect these Italians with Wheat and the 1st LA Special Battalion...to do so, would be to overturn 140-plus years of historical understanding. Maybe it's not mentioned because the story is not accurate. IF Wheat would have arrived with "2,000 Italians" he would not have commanded a dinky battalion. There is also NO primary source documentation to support said claim. It sounds cool. I'm not here to argue with you but I do think more research needs to be done. Wheat did not organize the 10th LA. Period. Granted, he would have loved regimental command but was only able to attract five companies to his banner…one of them being the Old Dominion Guards–which he formed. The 10th LA was organized at Camp Moore on July 22, 1861, long after Wheat had departed. The 10th was commanded by Antoine De Marigny and Jules Denis. De Choisel was from the 7th LA and did, for a time, command the Tigers…no documentation that he was with the 10th. And to say that all LA units were considered Tigers is not correct, either. Only after Wheat's 1st LA Special Battalion was disbanded did the brigade in which it belonged take on the name, "Tiger." Later, in 1863, LA units started to take on the term "Tiger." "Again, it's an interesting civil war postscript that I wish would be mentioned a little more often…." Again I would state that you should be the person to do it but be careful with generalities (e.g., "as part of the Tigers"). The only "Tigers" were the Irish boatmen of Capt. White's Tiger Rifles, which then applied to the battalion, and then, after August 1862, to the brigade, which pissed the original Tigers off. Neat story but please don't connect these Italians with Wheat and the 1st LA Special Battalion…to do so, would be to overturn 140-plus years of historical understanding.

]]> By: John http://www.historynet.com/1st-louisiana-special-battalion-at-the-first-battle-of-manassas.htm#comment-815704 John Tue, 14 Aug 2012 16:53:21 +0000 #comment-815704 My understanding is that Wheat did indeed arrive in New Orleans with just under 2 thousand Italians before the Union blockade. Wheat organized them into the 10th Louisiana infantry regiment as the 'Italian Guards' as part of the Tigers. I"m not certain as to the amount of actual time spent directly under Wheat's command. Lt Colonel Charles de Choisuel was their commander for a period of time. The rest of my post including Wheat's time with Garibaldi and the museum display in Italy is certainly correct. Again, it'a an interesting civil war postscript that I wish would be mentioned a little more often. Thanks. My understanding is that Wheat did indeed arrive in New Orleans with just under 2 thousand Italians before the Union blockade. Wheat organized them into the 10th Louisiana infantry regiment as the 'Italian Guards' as part of the Tigers. I"m not certain as to the amount of actual time spent directly under Wheat's command. Lt Colonel Charles de Choisuel was their commander for a period of time. The rest of my post including Wheat's time with Garibaldi and the museum display in Italy is certainly correct. Again, it'a an interesting civil war postscript that I wish would be mentioned a little more often. Thanks.

]]> By: Schreck http://www.historynet.com/1st-louisiana-special-battalion-at-the-first-battle-of-manassas.htm#comment-815628 Schreck Mon, 13 Aug 2012 20:43:02 +0000 #comment-815628 It's wool, Shaun, as you know...You guys have it right. It's wool, Shaun, as you know…You guys have it right.

]]> By: Schreck http://www.historynet.com/1st-louisiana-special-battalion-at-the-first-battle-of-manassas.htm#comment-815627 Schreck Mon, 13 Aug 2012 20:42:30 +0000 #comment-815627 "Wheat's Italian Guard Brigade of the Louisiana Tigers" does not exist...at least not with the 1st LA Special Bn. as all enlistees were either Celtic or Germanic. Perhaps you should do a piece. IF Wheat would have showed up with 2,000 Italians...that would have been something. "Wheat's Italian Guard Brigade of the Louisiana Tigers" does not exist…at least not with the 1st LA Special Bn. as all enlistees were either Celtic or Germanic. Perhaps you should do a piece. IF Wheat would have showed up with 2,000 Italians…that would have been something.

]]> By: John http://www.historynet.com/1st-louisiana-special-battalion-at-the-first-battle-of-manassas.htm#comment-815623 John Mon, 13 Aug 2012 19:40:16 +0000 #comment-815623 Great piece. I'm a little disappointed that Wheat's Italian Guard Brigade of the Louisiana Tigers is rarely mentioned by anyone anymore. I feel that chapter of Wheat's service to be most interesting. Assisting the legendary General Garibaldi (whom Lincoln offered a generalship to) in the Italian civil war and then returning to New Orleans with 2 thousand Italian soldiers to fight for the Confederacy was an interesting piece of civil war history. To this day, there is a museum in Abruzzo Provence Italy with a display complete with the Stars and Bars commemorating those who left for America to fight with Major Wheat against the union. Great piece. I'm a little disappointed that Wheat's Italian Guard Brigade of the Louisiana Tigers is rarely mentioned by anyone anymore. I feel that chapter of Wheat's service to be most interesting. Assisting the legendary General Garibaldi (whom Lincoln offered a generalship to) in the Italian civil war and then returning to New Orleans with 2 thousand Italian soldiers to fight for the Confederacy was an interesting piece of civil war history. To this day, there is a museum in Abruzzo Provence Italy with a display complete with the Stars and Bars commemorating those who left for America to fight with Major Wheat against the union.

]]> By: Shaun http://www.historynet.com/1st-louisiana-special-battalion-at-the-first-battle-of-manassas.htm#comment-809725 Shaun Wed, 20 Jun 2012 23:12:59 +0000 #comment-809725 Gary, great stuff! Where, may I ask, did you find the documentation for the "cotton" fezzes? Gary, great stuff! Where, may I ask, did you find the documentation for the "cotton" fezzes?

]]> By: Gary Schreckengost (author) http://www.historynet.com/1st-louisiana-special-battalion-at-the-first-battle-of-manassas.htm#comment-789446 Gary Schreckengost (author) Thu, 23 Feb 2012 16:20:22 +0000 #comment-789446 Must change: "In the political wrangling that followed, Henry Kelly, not Wheat, became commander of the 8th Louisiana. With Kelly's ascension, Captain J.W. Buhoup's company of Catahoula Guerrillas voted to leave Kelly's command and throw in their lot with Wheat's special battalion. Unlike the rest of the battalion, the Catahoula Guerrillas consisted of sons of wealthy planters, doctors and lawyers from Catahoula Parish in northern Louisiana. Outfitted in dark-gray battle shirts and blue kepis, they were complete social opposites from Wheat's New Orleans dockworkers" to: "In the political wrangling that followed, Henry Kelly, not Wheat, became commander of the 8th Louisiana. With Kelly's ascension, Captain J.W. Buhoup's company of Catahoula Guerrillas voted to leave Kelly's command and throw in their lot with Wheat's special battalion. Unlike the rest of the battalion, the Catahoula Guerrillas consisted of sons of wealthy planters, doctors and lawyers from Catahoula Parish in northern Louisiana. Outfitted in gray short jackets and mounted trousers of would-be cavalrymen, they were complete social opposites from Wheat's New Orleans dockworkers." Must change: "In the political wrangling that followed, Henry Kelly, not Wheat, became commander of the 8th Louisiana. With Kelly's ascension, Captain J.W. Buhoup's company of Catahoula Guerrillas voted to leave Kelly's command and throw in their lot with Wheat's special battalion. Unlike the rest of the battalion, the Catahoula Guerrillas consisted of sons of wealthy planters, doctors and lawyers from Catahoula Parish in northern Louisiana. Outfitted in dark-gray battle shirts and blue kepis, they were complete social opposites from Wheat's New Orleans dockworkers" to:

"In the political wrangling that followed, Henry Kelly, not Wheat, became commander of the 8th Louisiana. With Kelly's ascension, Captain J.W. Buhoup's company of Catahoula Guerrillas voted to leave Kelly's command and throw in their lot with Wheat's special battalion. Unlike the rest of the battalion, the Catahoula Guerrillas consisted of sons of wealthy planters, doctors and lawyers from Catahoula Parish in northern Louisiana. Outfitted in gray short jackets and mounted trousers of would-be cavalrymen, they were complete social opposites from Wheat's New Orleans dockworkers."

]]> By: Gary Schreckengost (author) http://www.historynet.com/1st-louisiana-special-battalion-at-the-first-battle-of-manassas.htm#comment-789445 Gary Schreckengost (author) Thu, 23 Feb 2012 16:18:12 +0000 #comment-789445 Also must amend: "the men were issued red wool fezzes with blue tassels; loose-fitting red woolen, placketed battle shirts; red woolen sashes; dark-blue wool, waist-length Zouave jackets with red trim; blue-and-white striped sailor's socks; blue-and-white striped cotton pantaloons cut in the baggy Zouave fashion; white canvas leggings and black leather grieves" to: "The men were issued red cotton flannel fezzes with red tassels (to act as camp covers); loose-fitting red cotton flannel, placketed battle shirts; red flannel sashes; dark-blue wool, waist-length Zouave jackets with red trim (no tombeau); blue-and-white striped sailor's socks; blue-and-white striped cotton (Hamilton Mattress Ticking) pantaloons cut in the baggy Zouave fashion, and white canvas leggings." Many Tigers apparently chose not to wear their leggings. Of course, as 1861 developed, many of the shirts were replaced as well as the socks... Also must amend: "the men were issued red wool fezzes with blue tassels; loose-fitting red woolen, placketed battle shirts; red woolen sashes; dark-blue wool, waist-length Zouave jackets with red trim; blue-and-white striped sailor's socks; blue-and-white striped cotton pantaloons cut in the baggy Zouave fashion; white canvas leggings and black leather grieves" to:

"The men were issued red cotton flannel fezzes with red tassels (to act as camp covers); loose-fitting red cotton flannel, placketed battle shirts; red flannel sashes; dark-blue wool, waist-length Zouave jackets with red trim (no tombeau); blue-and-white striped sailor's socks; blue-and-white striped cotton (Hamilton Mattress Ticking) pantaloons cut in the baggy Zouave fashion, and white canvas leggings." Many Tigers apparently chose not to wear their leggings. Of course, as 1861 developed, many of the shirts were replaced as well as the socks…

]]> By: Gary Schreckengost (author) http://www.historynet.com/1st-louisiana-special-battalion-at-the-first-battle-of-manassas.htm#comment-789444 Gary Schreckengost (author) Thu, 23 Feb 2012 16:11:03 +0000 #comment-789444 Since this publication, more sources have popped up and a few thoughts: 1. After Manassas, the Tiger Rifles, dressed in the Zouave fashion, decided to dye out their blue jackets with lye. What they got was a grey-tan sploch, the trim going pink. 2. Their fezzes were actually camp caps--on the job they wore broad-brimmed hats a various hues. 3. As the winter of 1861-62 heightened, many Tiger Rifles chose to wore the LA issue short jackets (gray). Most seemed to try to keep their signature pantaloons, though. 4. During the battle of Manassas--on Matthews' Hill, I believe now that the battalion attacked diagonally from the east, headed toward the Sudley Road...that the Rifles were on the left (bottom of hill in trees) and the Guerrillas on the right (toward top of hill) in skirmish formation. The other three companies behind in heavy infantry formation. Just when the Guerrillas engaged the Rhode Islanders, the South Carolinians approached from the Centreville Road, into the trees, and fired into the flank of the Tigers.... Since this publication, more sources have popped up and a few thoughts:
1. After Manassas, the Tiger Rifles, dressed in the Zouave fashion, decided to dye out their blue jackets with lye. What they got was a grey-tan sploch, the trim going pink.
2. Their fezzes were actually camp caps–on the job they wore broad-brimmed hats a various hues.
3. As the winter of 1861-62 heightened, many Tiger Rifles chose to wore the LA issue short jackets (gray). Most seemed to try to keep their signature pantaloons, though.
4. During the battle of Manassas–on Matthews' Hill, I believe now that the battalion attacked diagonally from the east, headed toward the Sudley Road…that the Rifles were on the left (bottom of hill in trees) and the Guerrillas on the right (toward top of hill) in skirmish formation. The other three companies behind in heavy infantry formation. Just when the Guerrillas engaged the Rhode Islanders, the South Carolinians approached from the Centreville Road, into the trees, and fired into the flank of the Tigers….

]]> By: siria http://www.historynet.com/1st-louisiana-special-battalion-at-the-first-battle-of-manassas.htm#comment-544099 siria Sun, 01 May 2011 17:36:52 +0000 #comment-544099 in school i am on the 1st louisiana wheat's tigers infantry and i love it because i get to wear all grey. in school i am on the 1st louisiana wheat's tigers infantry and i love it because i get to wear all grey.

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